Proposal: Leafs - Flames (JVR)

[blankall]

Where do people get the idea that Bennett is a bust? He had an abysmal start for the first 18 games, but since then has been over .5 PPG while only getting third line minutes. He also brings a lot of tenacity and physicality.

JVR is a rental, who is 28, and on pace for 50 points. No thanks from the Flames. A contender might give you a late first and a B prospect for JVR.

 

[Dack]

Where do people get the idea that Bennett is a bust? He had an abysmal start for the first 18 games, but since then has been over .5 PPG while only getting third line minutes. He also brings a lot of tenacity and physicality.

JVR is a rental, who is 28, and on pace for 50 points. No thanks from the Flames. A contender might give you a late first and a B prospect for JVR.

This isn't really true he had 3 points in his first 18. That gives him 18 in his last 42 which still isn't very good.

 

[OVO16]

So we trade a cost controlled middle 6er for a pending UFA who will most likely not re-sign with us? Makes sense.

How do you know he wont re-sign?

 

[Volica]

How do you know he wont re-sign?

Flames aren't going to offer him 6+ a season.
Hence not going to re sign with us.

 

[M C D A V I D]

Toronto gets hosed lol. Bennett could be had for a mid-round pick (See: Yakupov). And how is JVR not worth 6/yr? Looking at my own team, I'd rather have that than Lucic..

 

[DJJones]

Toronto gets hosed lol. Bennett could be had for a mid-round pick (See: Yakupov). And how is JVR not worth 6/yr? Looking at my own team, I'd rather have that than Lucic..

Well no shit.

I'd prefer him over Brouwer as well

 

[blankall]

This isn't really true he had 3 points in his first 18. That gives him 18 in his last 42 which still isn't very good.

I was mistaken, Bennett didn't get a point until his 16th game, which gives him 21 in his last 45 games. Which is actually good production for a player getting 3rd line minutes. The vast majority of 3rd line players do not exceed 40 points in a season. Here's a write-up on the 5 best 3rd line centres, and none are on pace for 40+ points:

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-5-third-line-centers-in-the-nhl/

So Bennett has already shown through the last 45 games that he is, at the very least, a very good 3rd liner, and he has significant room to improve.

Also, if Bennett's a bust with those kind of numbers, what does that make a prospect like Kapanen? Kapanen is the same age and only has 5 points in 19 games. If Bennett is a bust, Kapanen must have negative value.

 

[blankall]

Toronto gets hosed lol. Bennett could be had for a mid-round pick (See: Yakupov). And how is JVR not worth 6/yr? Looking at my own team, I'd rather have that than Lucic..

Do you really think that JVR, who is a rental on pace for 50 points, is getting more than a mid-first round pick? If he's available, they'll definitely be interest, but no one is giving up a top prospect or early 1st round pick for JVR.

 

[Dack]

I was mistake, Bennett didn't get a point until his 16th game, which gives him 21 in his last 45 games. Which is actually good production for a player getting 3rd line minutes. The vast majority of 3rd line players do not exceed 40 points in a season. Here's a write-up on the 5 best 3rd line centres, and none are on pace for 40+ points:

https://thehockeywriters.com/top-5-third-line-centers-in-the-nhl/

So Bennett has already shown through the last 45 games that he is, at the very least, a very good 3rd liner, and he has significant room to improve.

Also, if Bennett's a bust with those kind of numbers, what does that make a prospect like Kapanen? Kapanen is the same age and only has 5 points in 19 games. If Bennett is a bust, Kapanen must have negative value.

I agree with you I just don't think you can write off those first 15-20 games because he still hasn't been consistent since then. I hope the best for Bennett but I'm becoming increasingly worried.

 

[M C D A V I D]

Do you really think that JVR, who is a rental on pace for 50 points, is getting more than a mid-first round pick? If he's available, they'll definitely be interest, but no one is giving up a top prospect or early 1st round pick for JVR.

No but I think a mid-first >> Bennett. If Flames offered a first then that would be different. Bennett isn't the equivalent to a first round pick (late or not). For example, I wouldn't trade Yamamoto/Tolvonen (both late first picks in the last draft) for Bennett.

 

[DJJones]

I agree with you I just don't think you can write off those first 15-20 games because he still hasn't been consistent since then. I hope the best for Bennett but I'm becoming increasingly worried.

He's just not mature enough of a player to play center and drag around Brouwer. Backlund can hardly do it, and he would have failed worse than Bennett at a comparable age. With Jankowski, Vertseeg, Jagr, and Hathaway he's a positive corsi player that scores at a middle six P/60.

Ya he probably won't ever be an elite player but he can be a very good 2nd line utility player. The fact that he excels in playoff type games just make's it better for Calgary. He's not going anywhere.

 

[blankall]

I agree with you I just don't think you can write off those first 15-20 games because he still hasn't been consistent since then. I hope the best for Bennett but I'm becoming increasingly worried.

Players getting 3rd line minutes aren't supposed to be consistent scorers, hence why they are on the third line, where they get fewer opportunities. I'm not worried about Bennett at all. Worst case scenario, we get a gritty 2nd/3rd liner with a high compete level.

 

[blankall]

No but I think a mid-first >> Bennett. If Flames offered a first then that would be different. Bennett isn't the equivalent to a first round pick (late or not). For example, I wouldn't trade Yamamoto/Tolvonen (both late first picks in the last draft) for Bennett.

You described Bennett for JVR as a "hosing". The value is much closer than that, but I see why neither team would do it.

 

[Dack]

Players getting 3rd line minutes aren't supposed to be consistent scorers, hence why they are on the third line, where they get fewer opportunities. I'm not worried about Bennett at all. Worst case scenario, we get a gritty 2nd/3rd liner with a high compete level.

This isn't your average inconsistency though around 60% of his points came in a 13 game stretch. In he other 47 games this season I think he has 9 points.

He's just not mature enough of a player to play center and drag around Brouwer. Backlund can hardly do it, and he would have failed worse than Bennett at a comparable age. With Jankowski, Vertseeg, Jagr, and Hathaway he's a positive corsi player that scores at a middle six P/60.

Ya he probably won't ever be an elite player but he can be a very good 2nd line utility player. The fact that he excels in playoff type games just make's it better for Calgary. He's not going anywhere.

Oh I know Brouwer kills everyone he plays with and Hathaway has a similar effect. The issue is where do you find him a good player to play with? Jankowski appears to be a bottom 6er and we don't have many available assets. It's great that he's still hanging with the middle 6ers in P/60 but ultimately our 3rd line has a bunch of guys on pace for less than 30 points and it's hard to make the playoffs let alone contend with that kind of production from your 3rd line.

 

[Volica]

Calgary’s search for an offensive winger is solely to get Bennett someone who can help him.

Dragging around Brouwer, keeping Jankowski afloat and playing with a bunch of fringe NHL talent doesn’t go overly far trying to improve a kids confidence (who seems to be a very emotional player).

That’s the real humour in this trade. We move Benny, and a guy like JVR would simply be in his spot plus PP time.

 

[YoureAllTaxCheats]

JVR would cost too much, and I'm not interested in losing Bennett; he's turning into a really, really solid third liner / second line tweener and you need those for depth. He also is still very young and could improve still, so why give him away now?

 

[Halla]

leafs arent trading a guy with 25g already for a 3rd liner with 8

 

[CHaracter79]

so maple leaves fans are actually trying to say that a pending UFA is not worth a 21 year old C drafted 4th overall 3 years ago?

if JVR had a year left.. then calagry would have to add... but right now.. playign bennett with matthews will probably make him a 45 -50 point player.

not to mention salary cap control..

not to mention that in 3 months you most likely lose JVR for free


its funny that a 21 year old is deemed a 3rd liner but when JVR was Bennetts age he had 15 goals playin top PP minutes in philly

kadri had 3 goals in 30 games

bozak had 18 goals in college.

heck nylander is playing top minutes and only has 14 and hell be 22 in may

 

[The Gnome]

This deal makes zero sense for either club. But it is entertaining reading 3 full pages of fans bashing each other's team

 

[blankall]

This isn't your average inconsistency though around 60% of his points came in a 13 game stretch. In he other 47 games this season I think he has 9 points.

I disagree. It's very normal inconsistency for a player of his age on the 3rd line. Bennett still has lots of room for improvement. He's currently playing at around a 40 point pace. With more time and better ice time, I see him developing into a 50-65 point player with lots of tenacity and grit. A cost controlled player like that is worth to the Flames' future.

 

[blankall]

leafs arent trading a guy with 25g already for a 3rd liner with 8

That's a great comparison, if you don't take into account age, ice time, salaries, contract status, and assists.

 

[blankall]

This deal makes zero sense for either club. But it is entertaining reading 3 full pages of fans bashing each other's team

I don't see many Flames fans in here bashing JVR. He is what he is, but the Flames aren't in a position to be giving up major futures for an upcoming UFA.

 

[Baxterman]

No but I think a mid-first >> Bennett. If Flames offered a first then that would be different. Bennett isn't the equivalent to a first round pick (late or not). For example, I wouldn't trade Yamamoto/Tolvonen (both late first picks in the last draft) for Bennett.

Great I wouldn't trade Bennett for either of those two.

So I guess by your logic Bennett is worth more than a 1st round pick!

 

[Baxterman]

How do you know he wont re-sign?

Flames can't afford to sign him for what he is reportedly asking for especially since he is a LHS LW which we already have too many of as it is and he isn't going to give the Flames a hometown discount, if anything he will likely want more in Calgary than a team like Philly, Boston etc.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Calgary already has JG on their first line, there's no way that JVR displaces Tkatchuk on the second line left wing spot.

The Flames wouldn't be interested in parking JVR on the third line for 6 million bucks a year. If they're going after a $6 million dollar rental then they're going to want a right hand shot natural right winger. JVR really isn't all that interesting to the Flames needs if you think about it.