Proposal: Leafs - Flames (JVR)

[Skin Tape Session]

Bad for Flames in value. No need at all to do it from Toronto POV.

Wrong. Flames would jump at this.

I like Bennet. I wanted him in 2014, Happy Nylander pick turned out to be a clutch steal. I would decline as I want to see how far we can go in the playoffs and we will need JVR, who always BRINGS it in the playoffs. Hard pass

 

[DJJones]

Wrong. Flames would jump at this.

I like Bennet. I wanted him in 2014, Happy Nylander pick turned out to be a clutch steal. I would decline as I want to see how far we can go in the playoffs and we will need JVR, who always BRINGS it in the playoffs. Hard pass

I think you'll be disappointed in JVRs return if they trade him. He has all the makings of the next overpaid UFA that whoever signs him will regret in 2 years.

 

[connormcmuffin]

Would be happy with a 1st and 3rd for JVR, don't care about Bennett and not using Sparks as a throw in given his emergence.

 

[CraigsList]

So we trade a cost controlled middle 6er for a pending UFA who will most likely not re-sign with us? Makes sense.

 

[Baxterman]

I think part of the growing plan is for the Leafs to win at least one round in the playoffs this year. They got their taste against Washington last year and I doubt the Shanny/Lou are content on getting a first round exit this time around. They are building a winning environment, and getting deeper in the playoffs would give them more experience to draw upon. Even though the Leafs want to get as far as possible in the playoffs this year I don't see them selling a bunch of futures off in an attempt to do so, which may be where your argument is coming from.

I don't think that they will do much at all at the deadline, my point was more that I could see the management group being more willing to trade FAs than fans are because they are operating on a long term plan where fans (all fans not just Leaf fans) tend to operate on much more of an emotional/short term plan.

I am not saying the Leafs are going to trade JVR, Komarov and Bozak only that if they did move one of those I could see the rationale based on what I have seen/heard from them on a long term plan.

 

[rent free]

What else did you expect? The Leafs have a top ~5 offense, ~5 PK, ~15 PP, ~10 defense, ~5 goaltending.

The management is smart. They aren't trying to win, this is all just an elaborate ruse to give the illusion of winning. Leafs plan on losing every game from here and tank for Dahlin.

false. our ga/game being so high is because of andersen. we have a bottom-5 defense. also andersen is a top-10 goalie, not top-5.

 

[Baxterman]

Wrong. Flames would jump at this.

I like Bennet. I wanted him in 2014, Happy Nylander pick turned out to be a clutch steal. I would decline as I want to see how far we can go in the playoffs and we will need JVR, who always BRINGS it in the playoffs. Hard pass

No they wouldn't because JVR does not fill a need and would at best force them to move another LHS to the right side.

At best this likely gives them a better shot at losing in the 1st round but more likely it has them still struggling to make the play-offs and then going into next year without Bennett and without JVR.

It is a move with very little upside and a lot of downside for the Flames. If we are moving Bennett I would much rather do it for someone who is here longer than 2 months.

It is a terrible deal for the Flames.

 

[Baxterman]

Most recently our coach is on the record as having said he wants to win now and force management to make adds due to our good play. If we're to trade JVR it would almost certainly have to be move that does not significantly hurt us now, like say in a package for a D upgrade, but such a move also seems unlikely. Bennet is objectively just making us worse.

As for "Unlikely to win a play off round" that is of course subjective as hell.

This season we are 1-1 with Tampa and 2-1 over Boston. Assuming Tampa wins both their games in hand on us that puts them 8 points ahead of us and this is after an incredibly hot start. That is not a world of difference. In view of our lack of knowledge about who will improve what, who will get injured and who will be hot it's pretty hard to say right now they have a significant advantage beyond playoff experience. Our goalie is playing at a pretty high level right now also.

I know it is difficult for people to come to terms with but the Leafs are now a top team, #6 if I recall correctly. Considering 8th seeds take out #1's all the time it is ridiculous to think we have no chance.

Of course we are not favorites but the favorite only wins something like 20% of the time. No sane GM is going to give up on winning it all before we try, nothing worth having ever comes easy and even if we got knocked out of the 2nd round it would be quite a growth experience for our team.

People need to stop acting like we are a wild card team that is just lucky to be in the playoffs, we are a good team that could very well make some noise come playoff time. We are a better team than the one that gave President's trophy Washington some headaches, so why should we suddenly be afraid of Boston and Tampa?

No logic at all.

The favorite only wins 20% of the time? Where did you get that stat from?

The fact is that the Leafs are unlikely to win their first round series. It doesn't mean they can't or won't but they will be facing a better team than them.

And no 8th seeds don't take out 1 seeds all the time. They have beat them but certainly not all the time.

 

[rent free]

Dude, just because I do not always see the negative and hope for the worst like you do not make my posts homerish.

I think any reasonable person who looks at the evidence knows we have a good team. You do not see that and that's too bad for you. Calling me a homer because I think we might beat Tampa is foolish at best. I would say you have a far more extreme opinion and you usually do side against the Leafs only seeing the negative. I suspect you aren't even really a Leaf fan but a troll account for some Western Canadian team fan.

In the recent poll about the state of our rebuild you were the only Leaf fan out of 65 voters to choose the following:

Start over: this team is not built for the playoffs, better to start tanking again


That pretty much sums up the quality of poster you are and why I cannot take you seriously.

I was kidding about that option I chose. Obviously the leafs are passed that stage. Also I want them to win as much as any other leafs fan. However I don't think they're there yet. That's my opinion.

 

[StuckOutHere]

Would do JVR for Rasmus Andersson+Conditional pick(s) based on Calgary's playoff performance/JVRs involvement. Have it max out at a 2nd if Calgary reaches the finals/wins cup.

 

[Advanced stats]

I'll ask....

Is Calgary even buying this year?

 

[BlueBaron]

The favorite only wins 20% of the time? Where did you get that stat from?

And this has nothing to do with your inferiority complex that other fans don't love your team as much as you do.

The fact is that the Leafs are unlikely to win their first round series. It doesn't mean they can't or won't but they will be facing a better team than them.

And no 8th seeds don't take out 1 seeds all the time. They have beat them but certainly not all the time.

ROFL. Inferiority complex? You resort to name calling and personal attacks when someone disagrees with you?

The stat is the percentage of President's trophy winners to win the Cup, but it's actually closer to 25%.

It does not take an inferiority complex to disagree with you, just some common sense.

You say unlikely, I say slight underdog. I hope you can be mature enough to disagree without more personal attacks.

 

[Baxterman]

Would do JVR for Rasmus Andersson+Conditional pick(s) based on Calgary's playoff performance/JVRs involvement. Have it max out at a 2nd if Calgary reaches the finals/wins cup.

No thanks.

JVR is not a good fit for Calgary at all.

 

[rent free]

I'll ask....

Is Calgary even buying this year?

I believe I read somewhere that their gm said they aren't trading picks or rentals. I think burke said it

 

[Baxterman]

ROFL. Inferiority complex? You resort to name calling and personal attacks when someone disagrees with you?

The stat is the percentage of President's trophy winners to win the Cup, but it's actually closer to 25%.

It does not take an inferiority complex to disagree with you, just some common sense.

You say unlikely, I say slight underdog. I hope you can be mature enough to disagree without more personal attacks.

Name calling and personal attacks where?

And the Presidents trophy winners winning the cup is not a good stat to use to compare to all series. The Presidents Cup winner doesn't mean they are the best team or cup favorite. The difference between them and the other top teams is usually very small, that is much different than a first round match-up.

What is the difference between unlikely and slight underdog? They are the same thing just a different way of saying it.

 

[DJJones]

I'll ask....

Is Calgary even buying this year?

Maybe a Hoffman type if we could somehow make that work.

No interest in a JVR type though.

 

[Advanced stats]

Maybe a Hoffman type if we could somehow make that work.

No interest in a JVR type though.

Just curious...why buy?

 

[Baxterman]

I'll ask....

Is Calgary even buying this year?

I think they would be selectively buying.

They have given up too many picks recently and are not close to a play-off lock so I can't see them throwing away a pick on a rental that is a bad fit and unlikely to sign. If it was a cheap price maybe they take a flyer but that talking about a 4th/5th round pick.

If there was a fit for a player that would be around longer term, say a Nyqvist or Tartar, then I could see them making a move like that.

But giving up key assets for 2 months of a guy like JVR that doesn't fit on the team, no they are not buying like that.

 

[Baxterman]

Just curious...why buy?

Because they are a few points out the play-offs, have built a team that is "ready" to win sooner than later and have a clear hole in the roster to fill.

If they can fill it now and hope to get a play-off run why not do it now rather than the off-season because they are going to have to fill it anyways.

But that is also why they aren't just going out buying anything and are looking for the right fit.

 

[Advanced stats]

Because they are a few points out the play-offs, have built a team that is "ready" to win sooner than later and have a clear hole in the roster to fill.

If they can fill it now and hope to get a play-off run why not do it now rather than the off-season because they are going to have to fill it anyways.

But that is also why they aren't just going out buying anything and are looking for the right fit.

Thanks. I only find it tough to buy because you don't have much in the way of picks, so buying anyone serious (Hoffman?) Would come in the way of roster players/elite prospects. Interesting to watch.

 

[BlueBaron]

Name calling and personal attacks where?

And the Presidents trophy winners winning the cup is not a good stat to use to compare to all series. The Presidents Cup winner doesn't mean they are the best team or cup favorite. The difference between them and the other top teams is usually very small, that is much different than a first round match-up.

What is the difference between unlikely and slight underdog? They are the same thing just a different way of saying it.

Ok, I am seeing the problem now, I have been to complicated for you.

Telling someone they have an inferiority complex is a personal attack. Perhaps you are used to hearing it and think it is normal?

Unlikely implies a probable outcome, slight underdog implies it's close.

 

[DJJones]

Thanks. I only find it tough to buy because you don't have much in the way of picks, so buying anyone serious (Hoffman?) Would come in the way of roster players/elite prospects. Interesting to watch.

Fox would be the obvious piece to deal as well as we have a boatload of AHL tweeners. Any team would find something they like for a stop gap in the bottom 6.

Hathaway, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk specifically. Spencer Foo seems to be turning it on lately as well. Still not sure what to think of him.

 

[Advanced stats]

Fox would be the obvious piece to deal as well as we have a boatload of AHL tweeners. Any team would find something they like for a stop gap in the bottom 6.

Hathaway, Mangiapane, and Klimchuk specifically. Spencer Foo seems to be turning it on lately as well. Still not sure what to think of him.

All of those guys at once won't get you Hoffman(your suggestion) or anything serious though..it's a tough spot to be in for sure.

 

[DJJones]

Fox is probably equivalent to a mid first at this point. If they expect much more than that then ya, they can keep him and try again next year.

No idea what a first is worth this year so maybe I'm way off but I think a first or first equivalent will get you almost anything on the market.

 

[Potty John]

Calgary wouldn't take him because he shoots left and we have enough depth down the left side. We also have enough goaltending depth. And Toronto wouldn't do it beacuase JVR has more value even as a rental.