Proposal: Leafs - Canucks 3 for 3 block buster

[Huggy43]

tanev is the best #2 in the league?
easily the most overrated dman on these boards.
he is a lot closer to a solid #3 than the best #2 in the league.
pretty hard to be a top p[airing dman with 0 offensive ability.

Solid#3 ?

Thanks for displaying your level of knowledge on the player.

How exactly do you evaluate players? Hahhaa

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Gardiner is one of the most under rated players on this site.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Solid#3 ?

Thanks for displaying your level of knowledge on the player.

How exactly do you evaluate players? Hahhaa

If you read...

"he is a lot closer to a solid #3 than the best #2 in the league. "

 

[Huggy43]

If you read...

"he is a lot closer to a solid #3 than the best #2 in the league. "

Read a post? Why? I just make random comments & hope they align with the thread. It's a lot easier than pulling bs out of my backside like some here.

I said that because I question how he evaluates players if he sees Tanev closer to that then being one of the best #2 dmen.

 

[Leon Draisaitl]

So something like 97 points in 96 games between the ages 17 to 20 is nothing? In two different men's leagues? And 13 points in 21 NHL games also.

Compared to Virtanens 13 points in 55 games.

They both have 13 points in the league that matters

 

[Mystifo]

I guess QOC means nothing to you.

Well seeing how you don't want to actually back it up by posting data to you know prove your point here is the data for you...

You will notice the TOI QOC between Gardiner and Tanev is rather minute and even Marincin is pretty small as well (As Marincin was seeing a lot of shutdown time for a while there) The biggest difference is that CF% colour difference with both Marincin and Gardiner being 53% and Tanev only 49%.


So yeah I would argue the QOC is negligible and quite frankly QOC is kind of a wonky stat because for years Gunnarsson and Phaneuf led TOR in QOC but they were not 1st pairing D men and their stats showed it. I.E Not being great possession players and not being great Primary points per 60.

 

[Cogburn]

If the stats are really so negligible between Tanev and Gardiner, then keep Gardiner. We don't care for him at all. Yes, there are similar numbers, Gardiner has been doing this playing behind Rielly, who I don't think anyone will argue is the Leafs number one.

This is still awful for the Canucks.

Nylander is the only piece that holds any interest to us, and I, we rather, don't feel he is appealing enough to trade Tanev for, let alone adding Virtanen and Hutton into the mix.

Canucks fans are not alone in this sentiment, looking at the third party reactions in the Tanev+2nd for Nylander+Kapanen fake thread that went up.

I understand the OP is not a Leafs fan, and is probably trolling everyone posting in this thread. So can we stop posting here? Neither side is happy with this proposal, so...truce?

 

[TeamBester]

They both have 13 points in the league that matters

And one took twice as many games (plus another 13 games)to achieve that.

 

[Atomos2]

actually he is quite easily the most overrated player on these boards and there are like 5 other leafs breathing down his neck.

This is why no one takes you seriously. Your argument has moved past the specific player and towards the leaf team. Why should I believe you when you say Gardiner is overrated when you then move on and say 5 nameless leaf players are as well. This post is only good for a light chuckle and then a move on to more credible posts.

You should start listing facts to prove he's overrated and to disprove the advanced stats that were presented in his favour in this thread.

 

[Black Noise]

And one took twice as many games (plus another 13 games)to achieve that.

Nylander - 43.8% OZFO 5v5, 49.6% OZFO (All situations) 56:59 on PP - 2:36 per game, 15.38% 5v5 Shot%
Virtanen - 33.5% OZFO 5v5, 35.5% OZFO (All situations) 49:55 on PP - 0:53 per game, 6.9% 5v5 Shot%

Yes I know Nylander is better. I would take him over Virtanen, but you have to use context when stating facts.

Nylander had 10% more OZFO starts (5v5), 14% more OZFO in total, 1:43 more PP time per game and shot 8.48% better.

I think if Virtanen was given the same opportunities he would have put up more points, now I don't think he put have put up as much as Nylander but I think if they are both used in similar roles that there point totals would be much closer.

 

[TeamBester]

Nylander - 43.8% OZFO 5v5, 49.6% OZFO (All situations) 56:59 on PP - 2:36 per game, 15.38% 5v5 Shot%
Virtanen - 33.5% OZFO 5v5, 35.5% OZFO (All situations) 49:55 on PP - 0:53 per game, 6.9% 5v5 Shot%

Yes I know Nylander is better. I would take him over Virtanen, but you have to use context when stating facts.

Nylander had 10% more OZFO starts (5v5), 14% more OZFO in total, 1:43 more PP time per game and shot 8.48% better.

I think if Virtanen was given the same opportunities he would have put up more points, now I don't think he put have put up as much as Nylander but I think if they are both used in similar roles that there point totals would be much closer.

Jake has to earn those minutes, just like Nylander did.

 

[TeamBester]

Jake was also on a much deeper forward core so he didn't have it as easy as nylander

That doesn't matter how deep the Leafs are, Nylander earned his time, he wasn't spoon fed the minutes. Nylander would have earned the same minutes in Vancouver.

Edit: He probably would have played alot more on your team. Toronto really didn't give him the shot he deserved, he should have been on the team the whole year.

 

[Leon Draisaitl]

That doesn't matter how deep the Leafs are, Nylander earned his time, he wasn't spoon fed the minutes. Nylander would have earned the same minutes in Vancouver.

Edit: He probably would have played alot more on your team. Toronto really didn't give him the shot he deserved, he should have been on the team the whole year.

His first game he was given 18:41 of ice time. Definitely "earned" that

 

[TeamBester]

His first game he was given 18:41 of ice time. Definitely "earned" that

Ya he wouldn't have received the ice time if he was playing well, ugh... You must not know a lot about Babcock.

Edit: You think every player has to start on the 4th or 3rd line to earn minutes and you are still dodging my first response to you, or can you come up with only dumb one liners

 

[cobra77]

cmon now

Ben Hutton

Chris Tanev

Jake Virtanen



Jake Gardiner

William Nylander

Nikita Soshnikov or Connor Brown or Leafs 2017 2nd


Thoughts? Too big of a swap? If so how could it be simplified?

No way

 

[aufheben]

Gardiner is one of the most under rated players on this site.

Safe to say that ship has sailed...he's quickly tipping to the other end of the spectrum.

 

[Mathew Barzal]

We'd be gutting our already pathetic defensive depth to boost our average offensive depth. Not worth.

 

[Group Chat Legend*]

Safe to say that ship has sailed...he's quickly tipping to the other end of the spectrum.

Tanev is a decent bit better than Gardiner

Gardiner is overrated

 

[Skirbs1011]

Ben Hutton

Chris Tanev

Jake Virtanen



Jake Gardiner

William Nylander

Nikita Soshnikov or Connor Brown or Leafs 2017 2nd


Thoughts? Too big of a swap? If so how could it be simplified?

No way i do this deal as a Canucks fan.

A lot of ppl comparing Tanev to Gardiner, the way I see it Ben Hutton who is 3 years younger than Gardiner is tracking to be a comparable player. A litte less value now but in 2-3 years will be pretty damn close.

Leaving Nylander>>Virtanen(still lots of unknowns on both ends) and Tanev>>>>>>>>>Soshnikov/Brown/2nd.


Hutton is the "wild card" that most Canucks fans see a bright future for.

 

[Black Noise]

Jake has to earn those minutes, just like Nylander did.

Virtanen had a stretch of 5-6 games where he played incredibly well. He got no more than 16:55. Nylander played 18:41 in his first game. Virtanen played 9:18 in his first game.

They were used incredibly differently in their rookie season.

Ya he wouldn't have received the ice time if he was playing well, ugh... You must not know a lot about Babcock.

Kapanen averaged 14:36 and it was voiced by Leaf fans that he was incredibly unimpressive. He played 16:48 in his first game. Like I said before Virtanen was used in a much different role and was not given the offensive zone starts, PP time and ice time that Nylander was given.

 

[Leon Draisaitl]

Ya he wouldn't have received the ice time if he was playing well, ugh... You must not know a lot about Babcock.

Edit: You think every player has to start on the 4th or 3rd line to earn minutes and you are still dodging my first response to you, or can you come up with only dumb one liners

You think players playing on the 1st line and players playing on the 4th line should have equal points .

You think Virtanen's a bust because he's not PPG in his first season .

 

[TeamBester]

Virtanen had a stretch of 5-6 games where he played incredibly well. He got no more than 16:55. Nylander played 18:41 in his first game. Virtanen played 9:18 in his first game.

They were used incredibly differently in their rookie season.




Kapanen averaged 14:36 and it was voiced by Leaf fans that he was incredibly unimpressive. He played 16:48 in his first game. Like I said before Virtanen was used in a much different role and was not given the offensive zone starts, PP time and ice time that Nylander was given.

So when he was playing well he received more ice time, imagine that.

 

[TeamBester]

You think players playing on the 1st line and players playing on the 4th line should have equal points .

You think Virtanen's a bust because he's not PPG in his first season .

Ugh.... Ya that's totally what I said.

 

[Black Noise]

So when he was playing well he received more ice time, imagine that.

Yes, although overall during that stretch his minutes didn't change much. That was just his peak. What my point is, is that Nylander played 16 minutes regardless if he was good or not. Virtanen barely played 16 minutes and that was when he was playing at his best.

If you don't believe me read this thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2042863&page=40

Nylander played 16 minutes yet the consensus was he didn't play well and some Leaf fans were worried he floated too much.

Thanks for avoiding my overall point though, I guess you couldn't come up with much. You can't ignore that they were used differently because it plays a big reason to why their PPG are so different.

 

[TeamBester]

They were seasoned for majority of the season, my point is if nylander started the season and played through the whole of it his ppg would be a lot lower than 0.59ppg

How are you so sure he couldn't produce at that pace? Nylander was leading the AHL in scoring as a 19 year old on his way to setting records maybe, before his injury at the world juniors. That's impressive. My point, he produces.

And to your point about being seasoned, Nylander has been playing against men since he was 17, not quite the same as a player coming from Junior.