Official WJC Discussion Thread - now featuring 3 Leafs (Lily; Woll; Rasanen)

[jaric1862]

This tourney is just a Liljergen viewing party for the leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

There is a 3rd & main reason C) your amateur scouting is not finding talent beyond the 1st round of the draft and your drafting strategies.

Hunter has been drafting overagers (players passed over in previous drafts and already 19-20 at draft time making them ineligible for WJC and U-19 tournaments.

Case in point Yegor Korshkov taken with a 2nd round pick #31 overall in 2016 but already too old to play in the tournament and playing the KHL.

Players drafted after Korshkov like #35 Jordan Kyrou (ST Louis), #49 Carter Hart (Philly) and #51 Kale Clegue (LA) are 3 examples on Team Canada alone who are likely going to be Canada's #1 forward, #1 goalie and potentially best Dman in this tournament.

Then you have winning NOW strategies by Leafs where they trade 1st #30 OA (Sam Steel) WHL player of the year and scoring sensation and 2nd rounder #50 (Maxime Comtois) to Anaheim for Freddy Andersen. Sam Steel (66 games 50-81-131 points) will be a big part of team Canada and both the picks surrendered are on team Canada this WJC.
So Leafs drafting and dealing away of high picks is at the root of lack of representation by Leafs in this tournament.

Keep an eye on these players above that Leafs passed on or picks traded away that will be stars for Team Canada this tournament.

I'd rather keep my eye on Andersen playing, great trade.

 

[Mess]

I'd rather keep my eye on Andersen playing, great trade.

Its the cost of doing business, and a result of previous poor drafting and trades that forces a GM to deal high picks for instant help.

Freddy is doing his part and helping the Leafs, but it did cost the Leafs a prospect that scores at the level of Marner in junior and a reason Leafs lack high-end young prospects in junior hockey and WJC participants in part.

Sam Steel - C - 6-0/180 lbs (draft year +1)
2016-17 Regina Pats - WHL .. 66 games 50 goals 81 assists 131 points
vs.
Mitch Marner - C/RW - 6-0/175lbs (draft year +1)
2015-16 London Knights - OHL 57 games 39 goals 77 assists 116 points

Sam Steel is likely going be among the scoring leaders of the WJC, but the Leafs would be dead in the water without Freddy right now.

However if you trade away 1st and 2nd round picks it will impact your prospect pool and future and helps explain Leafs lack of prospects in this tournament. Which was my initial point.

 

[ACC1224]

Its the cost of doing business, and a result of previous poor drafting and trades that forces a GM to deal high picks for instant help.

Freddy is doing his part and helping the Leafs, but it did cost the Leafs a prospect that scores at the level of Marner in junior and a reason Leafs lack high-end young prospects in junior hockey and WJC participants in part.

Sam Steel - C - 6-0/180 lbs (draft year +1)
2016-17 Regina Pats - WHL .. 66 games 50 goals 81 assists 131 points
vs.
Mitch Marner - C/RW - 6-0/175lbs (draft year +1)
2015-16 London Knights - OHL 57 games 39 goals 77 assists 116 points

Sam Steel is likely going be among the scoring leaders of the WJC, but the Leafs would be dead in the water without Freddy right now.

However if you trade away 1st and 2nd round picks it will impact your prospect pool and future and helps explain Leafs lack of prospects in this tournament. Which was my initial point.

Yes, I'm more concerned with the Leafs than I am with Steel or the Ducks.

I'm sure you remember the years when the Leafs had a ton of players there. Where did that get them?

 

[Mess]

Yes, I'm more concerned with the Leafs than I am with Steel or the Ducks.

I'm sure you remember the years when the Leafs had a ton of players there. Where did that get them?

You can't win without a starting goalie in the NHL so Lou Lam had to pay future for the present. He did the same in NJ when it cost him Bo Horvath to get Cory Schneider. Rock and Hard place !!!

In terms of Sam Steel, Hockey Canada is not only having him here for the WJC, but also trying to negotiate with CHL for his release for Canada to play at the Olympics them also.

Future will tell how this all plays out for Leafs, Ducks as a result of this trade.

Trading away picks is one reason for lack of WJC top end prospects, but also drafting as well.

 

[93LEAFS]

Its the cost of doing business, and a result of previous poor drafting and trades that forces a GM to deal high picks for instant help.

Freddy is doing his part and helping the Leafs, but it did cost the Leafs a prospect that scores at the level of Marner in junior and a reason Leafs lack high-end young prospects in junior hockey and WJC participants in part.

Sam Steel - C - 6-0/180 lbs (draft year +1)
2016-17 Regina Pats - WHL .. 66 games 50 goals 81 assists 131 points
vs.
Mitch Marner - C/RW - 6-0/175lbs (draft year +1)
2015-16 London Knights - OHL 57 games 39 goals 77 assists 116 points

Sam Steel is likely going be among the scoring leaders of the WJC, but the Leafs would be dead in the water without Freddy right now.

However if you trade away 1st and 2nd round picks it will impact your prospect pool and future and helps explain Leafs lack of prospects in this tournament. Which was my initial point.

Yet, Steel's numbers have massively regressed this year. Making last years numbers look like an aberration. That's before getting into the predictive value of scoring from each CHL league. Sam Steel's numbers when age and league adjusted aren't particularly great.

 

[Menzinger]

There is a 3rd & main reason C) your amateur scouting is not finding talent beyond the 1st round of the draft and your drafting strategies.

Hunter has been drafting overagers (players passed over in previous drafts and already 19-20 at draft time making them ineligible for WJC and U-19 tournaments.

Case in point Yegor Korshkov taken with a 2nd round pick #31 overall in 2016 but already too old to play in the tournament and playing the KHL.

Players drafted after Korshkov like #35 Jordan Kyrou (ST Louis), #49 Carter Hart (Philly) and #51 Kale Clegue (LA) are 3 examples on Team Canada alone who are likely going to be Canada's #1 forward, #1 goalie and potentially best Dman in this tournament.

Then you have winning NOW strategies by Leafs where they trade 1st #30 OA (Sam Steel) WHL player of the year and scoring sensation and 2nd rounder #50 (Maxime Comtois) to Anaheim for Freddy Andersen. Sam Steel (66 games 50-81-131 points) will be a big part of team Canada and both the picks surrendered are on team Canada this WJC.

So Leafs drafting and dealing away of high picks is at the root of lack of representation by Leafs in this tournament.

Keep an eye on these players above that Leafs passed on or picks traded away that will be stars for Team Canada this tournament.

To add to that, you also have the fact that Hunter took a lot of bigger guys (with questionable skill) as development projects during the ‘16 and ‘17 drafts, those guys aren’t usually on national teams.

 

[Placid Perspicuity]

This post seems to deceptively make digs at the Leafs management, plenty of players "star" for team Canada and others and do very little in the NHL. Sam Steel was passed over quite a bit and no I wouldn't not do the Freddy Anderson deal because of him scoring in junior.

I agree. I normally hate seeing first round picks traded away, but the trade for Freddy has been one that I'm happy with. If Steel pans out and is a star for Anaheim, so be it. This is certainly a different situation from the trades with them for Biggs.

 

[Critical13]

There is a 3rd & main reason C) your amateur scouting is not finding talent beyond the 1st round of the draft and your drafting strategies.

Hunter has been drafting overagers (players passed over in previous drafts and already 19-20 at draft time making them ineligible for WJC and U-19 tournaments.

Case in point Yegor Korshkov taken with a 2nd round pick #31 overall in 2016 but already too old to play in the tournament and playing the KHL.

Players drafted after Korshkov like #35 Jordan Kyrou (ST Louis), #49 Carter Hart (Philly) and #51 Kale Clegue (LA) are 3 examples on Team Canada alone who are likely going to be Canada's #1 forward, #1 goalie and potentially best Dman in this tournament.

Then you have winning NOW strategies by Leafs where they trade 1st #30 OA (Sam Steel) WHL player of the year and scoring sensation and 2nd rounder #50 (Maxime Comtois) to Anaheim for Freddy Andersen. Sam Steel (66 games 50-81-131 points) will be a big part of team Canada and both the picks surrendered are on team Canada this WJC.

So Leafs drafting and dealing away of high picks is at the root of lack of representation by Leafs in this tournament.

Keep an eye on these players above that Leafs passed on or picks traded away that will be stars for Team Canada this tournament.

You really do love cheering on anything that could be negatively viewed for the Leafs don’t you?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Fans shouldn't get upset if "their" NHL team doesn't have as many prospects in the game as they want. Players are drafted for NHL potential not junior or AHL potential.

 

[4thline]

Lol at the usual opportunistic (yet still misguided) negative nancying.

In the last 2 drafts the Leafs made 7 selections in the 1st three rounds. Of which 6 either played or will play in at least one WJC.

1x Top 5 scorer
2x Top 15 scores
1x Goalie duelling for the starters job with a 1st rounder (beat him for the backup job last year
1x Top pairing defenseman likely to be in contention for the all tournie team (with another year of eligibility)
1x depth defenseman that is lock to be an impact player in his final year of eligibility


Woe is us right

 

[Kurtz]

Yes, I'm more concerned with the Leafs than I am with Steel or the Ducks.

I'm sure you remember the years when the Leafs had a ton of players there. Where did that get them?

Hey now, don't sleep on Justin Pogge, Kyle Welwood, Carlo Colaiacovo and Ian White just yet. I've got a feeling they'll come through for us any day now...

 

[Rare Jewel]

Its the cost of doing business, and a result of previous poor drafting and trades that forces a GM to deal high picks for instant help.

Freddy is doing his part and helping the Leafs, but it did cost the Leafs a prospect that scores at the level of Marner in junior and a reason Leafs lack high-end young prospects in junior hockey and WJC participants in part.

Sam Steel - C - 6-0/180 lbs (draft year +1)
2016-17 Regina Pats - WHL .. 66 games 50 goals 81 assists 131 points
vs.
Mitch Marner - C/RW - 6-0/175lbs (draft year +1)
2015-16 London Knights - OHL 57 games 39 goals 77 assists 116 points

Sam Steel is likely going be among the scoring leaders of the WJC, but the Leafs would be dead in the water without Freddy right now.

However if you trade away 1st and 2nd round picks it will impact your prospect pool and future and helps explain Leafs lack of prospects in this tournament. Which was my initial point.

Sam Steel is a nice prospect, but his scoring pace this season without Adam Brooks has come down quite a bit.

But it's not about who has the most prospects at the WJC, it's nice but the pool for Canada is deep. I mean how many players is Connor Brown better than from the team Canada that he didn't play for? Kerby Rychel and Freddy Gauthier made that team.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Picking Greenway a full round before Mete was something I knew would be such a mistake.

Then to make it even worst, they picked him before our Middleton pick.

Ouch

Of all those massive D-men Hunter has picked I still like Greenway the best and think he has a chance. If were him though I'd be B-lining it to the USHL because he's got to get playing.

 

[stickty111]

You can't win without a starting goalie in the NHL so Lou Lam had to pay future for the present. He did the same in NJ when it cost him Bo Horvath to get Cory Schneider. Rock and Hard place !!!

In terms of Sam Steel, Hockey Canada is not only having him here for the WJC, but also trying to negotiate with CHL for his release for Canada to play at the Olympics them also.

Future will tell how this all plays out for Leafs, Ducks as a result of this trade.

Trading away picks is one reason for lack of WJC top end prospects, but also drafting as well.

A good starting goalie is much higher in value then a 2nd line prospect(if even that)
You complain how Leafs should "build from net out" but you criticize the Andersen deal?
I agree Dave Nonis couldnt find any good picks outside the first round. What a fail he was.

 

[stickty111]

You really do love cheering on anything that could be negatively viewed for the Leafs don’t you?

Its because his "in Nonis we trust" movement was an epic disaster. Its why he is he is now complaining about our current management which is good.

Hunter already seems to have found at least 3 or 4 beyond first round players, so the criticism doesnt make sense.

 

[Raging Bull]

Remember that one year we had a quarter of the team, Bell, Colaiacovo, White, Stajan, Wellwood......... good times.

 

[Mess]

Hey now, don't sleep on Justin Pogge, Kyle Welwood, Carlo Colaiacovo and Ian White just yet. I've got a feeling they'll come through for us any day now...

Lets not forget Welly (5th round pick) White (6th round pick) and Colaiacovo all went on to play ~ 500 NHL games, and what about Tuukka Rask, Alex Steen and Matt Stajan that joined them and are still playing in the NHL today who played at the same time in this event.

What about when Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander played in this tournament considered the best U-19 talent at the WJC and Leaf Nation was excited about representation?

Crosby, McDavid, Stamkos, Tavares etc etc all played in this tournament at one time. Remember when 3 X Stanley Cup champ Jonathan Toews cam out 3 times in the shoot out for Canada and scored every time to advance Cananda.

Players selected for this event is the junior version of NHL players asked to play for their countries in the Olympics. Its not viewed as negative to have strong representation at the tournament, it doesn't guarantee NHL success beyond the WJC.

If the goal of your amateur scouts it to find future NHL talent then having strong representation at what is considered the BEST junior tournament in the world is a feather in scouts cap as its often a launching board to successful NHL careers once they turn pro.

 

[Morgs]

If Liljegren gets paired with Dahlin he has a good chance to be one of the best dman in the tourney.

He's played with Brannstrom in the past, and trust me when I say that's not a bad thing. He'll without a doubt be top-4, and on one of the PP.

 

[X66]

I know someone just hates Mark Hunter, but they have the most simplistic way at looking at things.

It's not about who represents a team at the WJC, it's who is best for your NHL team that matters.

I've seen Hunter picks already have strong WJC tournaments:
Dermott
Bracco
Dzierkals
Timashov
Woll
Grundstrom
Korshkov(drafted after his WJC final year)

I just want to see how these guys translate to pros, some have done greatly so far and have lot of promise, that's all that matters.

We'll know the answers in a few years, but who represents this team at the WJC doesn't mean a whole lot, the only thing that matters is how they make your NHL roster better.

 

[4thline]

I know someone just hates Mark Hunter, but they have the most simplistic way at looking at things.

It's not about who represents a team at the WJC, it's who is best for your NHL team that matters.

I've seen Hunter picks already have strong WJC tournaments:
Dermott
Bracco
Dzierkals
Timashov
Woll
Grundstrom
Korshkov(drafted after his WJC final year)

I just want to see how these guys translate to pros, some have done greatly so far and have lot of promise, that's all that matters.

We'll know the answers in a few years, but who represents this team at the WJC doesn't mean a whole lot, the only thing that matters is how they make your NHL roster better.

Don't be silly X, none of them count because they're not there this year, and that's all that matters. Otherwise how well Mess make his hilariously poorly veiled shots at Hunter?

 

[Mess]

Well there might not be many Leaf prospects in the tournament, however there are 3 Kelowna Rockets competing for a spot on Team Canada so there is that to cheer for, for me.

 

[Mess]

Fans shouldn't get upset if "their" NHL team doesn't have as many prospects in the game as they want. Players are drafted for NHL potential not junior or AHL potential.

Tampa Bay is the class of the East and has 4 players alone on Team Canada final roster Taylor Raddysh, Boris Katchouk, Brett Howden and Cal Foote and all are having excellent junior seasons.

If you want to be a strong NHL team a consistent contender than keeping the feeder system filled and constantly supplying NHL talent is the way to go.

Besides its always funner for fans that cheer on their prospects in the this showcase tournament that brings top prospects together.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I'd be more upset about the lack of Leafs in the WJC this year if the Marlies weren't doing so well with the prospects there being such big contributors.

Watching Lily should be fun though.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

Mess: Agree that you need good prospects, good NHL prospects, to constantly have a good NHL team. I'm just saying this is a junior tournament, and the players on the rosters (especially the European) is not always representative of "NHL capabilities."

Agree with you whole heartily that it is "funner" if you know the players, especially if they are from your NHL team.