Post-Game Talk: Leafs 4, Pens 3 - 30 Minutes Not Enough

[EightyOne]

I do find it hard to believe someone named after an ogre AND godzilla wouldn't LOVE a brutish enforcer lol lol

 

[Ogrezilla]

I do find it hard to believe someone named after an ogre AND godzilla wouldn't LOVE a brutish enforcer lol lol

I absolutely do But I don't think he's effective with our style of play, or against a lot of the teams we play. I'd put him in vs the Caps every time though

 

[Pens x]

Do you really not see why he's playing? I'm not asking if you agree with why he's playing, I'm asking if you understand why he's playing. It's the same as Laraque or Goddard. Nobody thought those guys were playing for their hockey skills. Neither is Reaves.

JR has decided that Sid and Geno taking less abuse is more important than having a more effective 4RW.

I understand why they acquired a player like him. I think we needed a power forward for this team. We don’t really have any really physical forwards.
But Reaves wasn’t the solution. It was a panic move in which we heavily overpaid. If all you wanted was a goon then friggin find one in the AHL and don’t waste the cap hit and more importantly, assets, on a guy like Reaves.

I understand we needed a physical winger but JR screwed the pooch here. Power forwards are difficult to find but there was no reason to overpay that much for a guy like Reaves.

JR failed to address many deficiencies with this team. What’s one more?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Then JR would get more criticism about the trade and, yeah, I think there’s an element of ego involved with this. It’s just such a move away from what made this team successful and Sullivan seemingly doesn’t like playing Reaves much. There was also that token attempt at trying him on the PK in the preseason. It’s just damn weird. Unless Reaves is something like a 13F those problems aren't going away.

I don't see why any egos should take issue with that though. Reaves has been doing what we brought him in to do. Sid and Geno are not being seeing the repeated, targeted attacks from the dregs of the league like they've seen the last couple years. But like EightyOne said, there's no point playing him against Toronto.

I'm hoping that changes come playoffs. Considering he just gets completely benched for full periods on occasion, I have to think Sully recognizes it.

I think so. But if we were playing a team like Washington, Columbus, or NYR in the playoffs, I'd advocate Reaves being on the team (at least if they got up to their old antics the previous game) because he'd actually serve a purpose.

Playing Reaves against speed/finesse teams who've never taken the sort of liberties we've seen from Nisky, Dubinsky, Wilson, Staal etc is pointless, but we're doing it anyway. Play him against the assholes who only think they can win by wearing our best players down with targeted cheap shots.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I understand why they acquired a player like him. I think we needed a power forward for this team. We don’t really have any really physical forwards.
But Reaves wasn’t the solution. It was a panic move in which we heavily overpaid. If all you wanted was a goon then friggin find one in the AHL and don’t waste the cap hit and more importantly, assets, on a guy like Reaves.

I understand we needed a physical winger but JR screwed the pooch here. Power forwards are difficult to find but there was no reason to overpay that much for a guy like Reaves.

JR failed to address many deficiencies with this team. What’s one more?

If you think we brought him in to be a power forward, then no you don't understand why we brought him in.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think so. But if we were playing a team like Washington, Columbus, or NYR in the playoffs, I'd advocate Reaves being on the team (at least if they got up to their old antics the previous game) because he'd actually serve a purpose.

Playing Reaves against speed/finesse teams who've never taken the sort of liberties we've seen from Nisky, Dubinsky, Wilson, Staal etc is pointless, but we're doing it anyway. Play him against the *******s who only think they can win by wearing our best players down with targeted cheap shots.

Agreed completely. Used properly, I do think he can be effective.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue that our 4th line is good or anything. I'm just saying that it's silly to point at 4LW as a spot that JR knowingly left a hole this summer.

No, if anything it was underestimating the loss of Cullen or thinking he’d be back. You were probably responding to someone on my ignore list.

]I think Reaves really was effective in St Louis. They just play a much different game than we do. He does do things well. I saw at least one occasion last night where a Leafs d-man simply didn't go for a puck in the corner with Reaves following him in.

Sadly, the things he does poorly are very important to how we play. And he matches up poorly against the top teams in the East.

So, part of what makes the Reaves trade weird is that while he may have fit in that St. Louis team, like you said, it’s really not the Pens. Ignoring the skating away and just keep playing philosophy. They added a hulking player who's got good speed for his size to a fast skating team in the East. He’s nowhere near skilled enough to make up for that.

Now you have Sullivan with a winger he won’t play on a team based on waves of attack wearing opposing teams down. They added fast for a tank on skates to a speed system predicated on constant skating to really work. In the beginning of the season I even questioned if Reaves' offseason had prepared him for this system vs what he was in before.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Is Crosby's health crucial to our success? Yes.
Has Crosby's health been put in jeopardy by targeted cheap shots the last couple years? Yes.
Is Reaves the best enforcer in the league? Yes.
Could the best enforcer in the league cut down those targeted cheap shots? Maybe, early returns suggest he is.
Can Reaves take a regular shift better than any enforcer in the league? Yes.
Do we need Reaves to play every game, even when there are no serious threats on the opposing team and we have better options sitting on the sidelines? No.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So, part of what makes the Reaves trade weird is that while he may have fit in that St. Louis team, like you said, it’s really not the Pens. Ignoring the skating away and just keep playing philosophy. They added a hulking player who's got good speed for his size to a fast skating team in the East. He’s nowhere near skilled enough to make up for that.

Now you have Sullivan with a winger he won’t play on a team based on waves of attack wearing opposing teams down. They added fast for a tank on skates to a speed system predicated on constant skating to really work. In the beginning of the season I even questioned if Reaves' offseason had prepared him for this system vs what he was in before.

We added him to enforce. We got the best player we could who can also be a top end enforcer. Fit wasn't part of the discussion imo. I think they knew from the moment they made the trade that Reaves was a bad fit and a likely downgrade to our 4th line in terms of actual hockey ability.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Is Crosby's health crucial to our success? Yes.
Has Crosby's health been put in jeopardy by targeted cheap shots the last couple years? Yes.
Is Reaves the best enforcer in the league? Yes.
Could the best enforcer in the league cut down those targeted cheap shots? Maybe, early returns suggest he is.
Can Reaves take a regular shift better than any enforcer in the league? Yes.
Do we need Reaves to play every game, even when there are no serious threats on the opposing team and we have better options sitting on the sidelines? No.

Has he been targeted much in the regular season? I don’t see a difference. Seems it’s more the playoffs where the incentive to win a cup will be the factor of why this **** happens. Reaves won’t be deterring that but he will hurt us by making us worse.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't see why any egos should take issue with that though. Reaves has been doing what we brought him in to do. Sid and Geno are not being seeing the repeated, targeted attacks from the dregs of the league like they've seen the last couple years. But like EightyOne said, there's no point playing him against Toronto.



I think so. But if we were playing a team like Washington, Columbus, or NYR in the playoffs, I'd advocate Reaves being on the team (at least if they got up to their old antics the previous game) because he'd actually serve a purpose.

Playing Reaves against speed/finesse teams who've never taken the sort of liberties we've seen from Nisky, Dubinsky, Wilson, Staal etc is pointless, but we're doing it anyway. Play him against the *******s who only think they can win by wearing our best players down with targeted cheap shots.

That I don't get, just because they didn't go over the top doesn't take away they are a bigger bruising team. They do dress Martin. I think it's foolish to exclude Toronto. In a playoff series they would be just as likely to target if they want to get past the reigning champs. That's been the MO for every single team the past two years in the playoffs. That's the sole biggest reason Reaves is here.

I agree that he doesn't need to be an every game player, but the teams that can hurt you the most he should.

I'd rather dress 7 D-men then see Reaves in the lineup every game.

 

[PensandCaps]

Reaves prevents nothing. As Sid And Geno have been cheapshotted just as much as any other year.

As a 13th F on this team, I would love him. To only play vs the Jackets to do one thing, run dubinsky.

 

[NMK11]

I understand why they acquired a player like him. I think we needed a power forward for this team. We don’t really have any really physical forwards.
But Reaves wasn’t the solution. It was a panic move in which we heavily overpaid. If all you wanted was a goon then friggin find one in the AHL and don’t waste the cap hit and more importantly, assets, on a guy like Reaves.

I understand we needed a physical winger but JR screwed the pooch here. Power forwards are difficult to find but there was no reason to overpay that much for a guy like Reaves.

JR failed to address many deficiencies with this team. What’s one more?

You make a good point, and then you ruin it by saying Reaves is a power forward. He's not. He might be a powerful forward, but that's completely different.

I agree with ogre in that id like him a lot more as an occasional player. But then it would make the price seem even worse.

 

[Ugene Magic]

If the Pens want to add deterrents who better help the team who can play every game do a swap with Buffalo for Kane and Nolan.

Fixed. Bring in Reaves when you need to break the alarm glass.

 

[DearDiary]

The Pens don't need Reaves, they need a Matt Cooke. Someone that other teams fear because if they take out Crosby/Malkin, Cooke will take a 10 game suspension to take out the other teams best players. He was also a decent 3rd liner and good on the pk.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Pens don't need Reaves, they need a Matt Cooke. Someone that other teams fear because if they take out Crosby/Malkin, Cooke will take a 10 game suspension to take out the other teams best players. He was also a decent 3rd liner and good on the pk.

I don't think there is a true Matt Cooke in the league anymore, and I doubt Boston would trade us Marchand.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Has he been targeted much in the regular season? I don’t see a difference. Seems it’s more the playoffs where the incentive to win a cup will be the factor of why this **** happens. Reaves won’t be deterring that but he will hurt us by making us worse.

Feb 20, 2015:

Sidney Crosby, Brandon Dubinsky renew hostilities | Toronto Star

Nov 25, 2015:



The likes of Dubinsky haven't cared what time of year it is up to this point. I'll be shocked if he or any other dirtbag tries that sort of thing with Reaves around.

That I don't get, just because they didn't go over the top doesn't take away they are a bigger bruising team. They do dress Martin. I think it's foolish to exclude Toronto. In a playoff series they would be just as likely to target if they want to get past the reigning champs. That's been the MO for every single team the past two years in the playoffs. That's the sole biggest reason Reaves is here.

I agree that he doesn't need to be an every game player, but the teams that can hurt you the most he should.

I'd rather dress 7 D-men then see Reaves in the lineup every game.

I haven't seen a reason to worry about Martin yet. Like I said, if they do in the playoffs, then yeah, dress the nuclear option.

 

[EightyOne]

You really don't see even half the crap that happens on ice when you watch a game on tv, unless someone is clearly murdered.

When you are live, you see the away from the puck garbage and off-play chirping. The extra cross checks. The rabbit punches to the head.

I don't live in Pittsburgh so I dunno if this crap is happening more, less, or equal to Pens players this year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Reaves prevents nothing. As Sid And Geno have been cheapshotted just as much as any other year..

I disagree with this. Apart from that fiasco the first time against Nashville, I don't remember Sid and Geno taking any sort of consistent abuse this season like they'd endure over 60 minutes last year.

There may be the odd push or cross check, but not the constant escalation we'd see from guys like Dubinsky and Staal, where every single shift they'd do something to try and injure Sid.

Whether that's due to Reaves' presence, who knows. But I do think there's been less consistent dirty stuff levied at Sid and Geno this year (so far).

 

[Shady Machine]

and yet he plays. That tells me Crosby/Geno/whoever REALLY want him there.

I'm hoping he's not a regular come playoff time. Goddard played 71 games in 2008-2009, and zero playoff games. Now, Reaves is a clearly better hockey player than Goddard, but I still hope this ends up similarly.

But the real abuse tends to happen in the playoffs from the Wilsons, Dubinskys, etc.

If you bench Reaves for those games, then what? I’m not saying I buy the enforcer thing anyway, but pretending I do, I’d probably want him playing against those guys.

 

[Ogrezilla]

But the real abuse tends to happen in the playoffs from the Wilsons, Dubinskys, etc.

If you bench Reaves for those games, then what? I’m not saying I buy the enforcer thing anyway, but pretending I do, I’d probably want him playing against those guys.

Agreed. If we build the rest of the line right I actually think he can be effective against those teams anyway. But I would want us to consider sitting him vs teams like Tampa and Toronto. Right now we aren't.

 

[larueskee]

If you want to blame losses like these on Ryan Reaves I got news for you. The guy is averaging about 6 minutes a game. If you want to understand the Penguins biggest issue you have to look at the goaltending position. Murray has been great but he is injured ( frequently it seems ) and has only started 111 games during his career and that includes playoffs. Most of his starts have come against many of the same teams. The 2 goaltenders on the active roster right now have ( DeSmith 0 NHL starts Jarry 8 NHL starts ) have little experience, are just pups ( 22 & 23 ). There is no replacement for experience and this all could have been predicted prior to allowing Fleury to leave town so you could pay Dumo, Maata, Schultz. Fleury's near 700 NHL start experience isn't even on the bench to help the young guys. I would look for JR to make a move for a veteran back -up at this stage. Lets be clear 2 back to back games against a team ( Buffalo ) on a huge shut out streak isn't hard. The last 3 games the Pens gave up 11 goals against the Rangers, Isles, and Leafs which is like a 3.66 GA average.The 3 games prior the Pens gave up 4 goals to the Flyers, 2 to the Lightening and 4 to the Preds. Very little experience between the pipes in Pittsburgh this year.

 

[Shady Machine]

Agreed. If we build the rest of the line right I actually think he can be effective against those teams anyway. But I would want us to consider sitting him vs teams like Tampa and Toronto. Right now we aren't.

Agreed. I’d have no problem with a Simon/Archie or even Rowney-Cullen-Reaves line for example. The issue was never Reaves in isolation, other than price, it was the combo of players and a bad 4the line center. I suppose Sheahan could be okay there, but the other winger would need to be fast.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Agreed. I’d have no problem with a Simon/Archie or even Rowney-Cullen-Reaves line for example. The issue was never Reaves in isolation, other than price, it was the combo of players and a bad 4the line center. I suppose Sheahan could be okay there, but the other winger would need to be fast.

Agreed. They'd be missing some raw talent, but that's probably going to be true in most of our realistic options.

I'd still like to add Cullen or someone similar. A guy who can play 4C or 4LW who brings some talent to that line. I'm always a fan of an extra center as one of your wings. And if Reaves is going to be in, I'd prefer it not be Rowney.

 

[EightyOne]

If you want to blame losses like these on Ryan Reaves I got news for you. The guy is averaging about 6 minutes a game. If you want to understand the Penguins biggest issue you have to look at the goaltending position. Murray has been great but he is injured ( frequently it seems ) and has only started 111 games during his career and that includes playoffs. Most of his starts have come against many of the same teams. The 2 goaltenders on the active roster right now have ( DeSmith 0 NHL starts Jarry 8 NHL starts ) have little experience, are just pups ( 22 & 23 ). There is no replacement for experience and this all could have been predicted prior to allowing Fleury to leave town so you could pay Dumo, Maata, Schultz. Fleury's near 700 NHL start experience isn't even on the bench to help the young guys. I would look for JR to make a move for a veteran back -up at this stage. Lets be clear 2 back to back games against a team ( Buffalo ) on a huge shut out streak isn't hard. The last 3 games the Pens gave up 11 goals against the Rangers, Isles, and Leafs which is like a 3.66 GA average.The 3 games prior the Pens gave up 4 goals to the Flyers, 2 to the Lightening and 4 to the Preds. Very little experience between the pipes in Pittsburgh this year.

Close. But no. Goaltending isn't our issue. GAA is up across the league. MAF is a dumpster fire who shoulda been gone from Pittsburgh five years ago.

It's the five in front. And oh boy..if you want bad GAA the way we are playing defense around the crease ...MAF woulda actually stopped smiling for once.

We have two great tenders. And about 10 crappy skaters. Six others who donn care and are soff. Only Kessel and Horny have shown consistent effort.