Prospect Info: Leafs 2017 1st Rd Pick (#17 OA) - Timothy Liljegren - 6'0" 188lbs RHD - Rogle BK

[Erndog]

Nylander was thoroughly elite in the SHL when he came over though. If Liligren pulls that off next year, that will be something else.

Yeah, but maybe the Leafs just want him in their system asap.

The debate becomes SHL vs Marlies.

 

[Walshy7]

The big draw for Bob's list is they're employed NHL scouts and it's regularly the most accurate (this is where consistency isn't a concern).

yeah but there is no way to know what scouts. It very well could be all ohl regional scouts we don't know. Unless its 10 head scouts there is an in built bias toward their regional leagues

 

[Stephen23]

I'd like to see him start next year in Sweden and if he's not being developed properly or too good for the league then bring him over. Either way I see something along the lines of:
17/18 - Sweden(-Marlies?)
18/19 - Marlies
19/20 - Marlies/Leafs

 

[Walshy7]

I'd like to see him start next year in Sweden and if he's not being developed properly or too good for the league then bring him over. Either way I see something along the lines of:
17/18 - Sweden(-Marlies?)
18/19 - Marlies
19/20 - Marlies/Leafs

I don't know, he has good size already if he picks back up where he left off at 16 I think you can pencil him in the 18/19 lineup. He is 6' 192 Pounds could be heavier by next year too

 

[Pi]

I don't know, he has good size already if he picks back up where he left off at 16 I think you can pencil him in the 18/19 lineup. He is 6' 192 Pounds could be heavier by next year too

Yeah, I don't think he's going to need till 19/20 to crack the lineup. He will likely be a full time player for the Leafs sometime in the 18/19 season. Whether it be to start the season or after New Years.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Liljegren will probably start next year in Sweden and play out most of the season then join the marlies/leafs towards the end of the season or playoffs. There's a good chance for him to crack the leafs roster in 2018. His skating, shooting and puck skills are so exceptional that he's a lock to play in the NHL sooner rather than later.

The one area which might be a slight weakness in his vision which is above average but not quite elite although I believe he's ahead of Morgan Rielly in that department. His upside is a right shooting Duncan Keith clone.

 

[Menzinger]

i don't know why you guys keep talking about "he went where he was ranked".

Schenn went where he was ranked. Nylander went where he was ranked.

It was still quite legitimate to say that schenn was overdrafted and willy underdrafted, right there on draft day.

i'll say it again - there's legitimately not one forward in this draft i'd rather have than liljegren.

Yeah. Rankings become meaningless the second a player is selected. If all we needed was consensus lists there would be no need to waste millions on Hunter and his scouts

 

[Kazparov]

I'd like to see him start next year in Sweden and if he's not being developed properly or too good for the league then bring him over. Either way I see something along the lines of:
17/18 - Sweden(-Marlies?)
18/19 - Marlies
19/20 - Marlies/Leafs

I like and agree with your timeline.
Not many kids are ready to leave home at 18, he's not Auston Matthews.

That being said , I trust the path the Leafs think is the best for him.

 

[Mess]

Yeah, but maybe the Leafs just want him in their system asap.

The debate becomes SHL vs Marlies.

There is another option and that Liljegrin is selected in the CHL import draft and then comes to play in NA in the OHL, WHL or QMJHL.

Can you picture Mark Hunter suggesting his Knights draft him?

The 2017 CHL Import Draft will be held at 11am eastern on Wednesday June 28th. So we will after tomorrow if this option becomes a development path.

 

[randomusername101]

Well said. That's what I tend to look at specifically: lateral movement.

Sarcasm or serious? I played under 20 Canada soccer and provincial basketball. Only played low level hockey due to finances. I'm not talking crap here. A guy that can shift the defence laterally is a pain because you can't cut off a straight left right movement the way you can north south. Requires help defence in any sport.

 

[Stephen23]

I like and agree with your timeline.
Not many kids are ready to leave home at 18, he's not Auston Matthews.

That being said , I trust the path the Leafs think is the best for him.

Absolutely, I have complete faith in this management to do what is right for him. For example, most management teams would have left Nylander in Sweden for the year, but they felt it was in his best interest to come over and develop with the Marlies. I think Timothy essentially lost a year of development having dealing with mono and trying to play catch up once he started playing (too early by his own admission). I think I am perfectly fine letting him play another year in Sweden to make up for lost time where they encourage his skills and have the open ice to really allow him to excel. After that he can come over here and learn the North American game and learn Babcock's/Keefe's system. He can take all the time he needs. There is absolutely no rush while we have kids like Rosen, Borgman, Dermott, etc knocking on the door. Allow him to take his time, make mistakes and eventually learn from the best in the business in Babcock and grow with the kids.

 

[Bluelines]

Same reason for me I don't like Bob's list. We don't even know if it's the same scouts every year. If it's not it would kill the consistency.

That is assuming scouts are consistent every year.

I'd rather the 10 best scouts every year vs the same 10 scouts every year.

 

[Gallagbi]

yeah but there is no way to know what scouts. It very well could be all ohl regional scouts we don't know. Unless its 10 head scouts there is an in built bias toward their regional leagues

I'd argue there's built in bias for any list, even with head scouts.

 

[ChazzMichaelMichaels]

There is another option and that Liljegrin is selected in the CHL import draft and then comes to play in NA in the OHL, WHL or QMJHL.

Can you picture Mark Hunter suggesting his Knights draft him?

The 2017 CHL Import Draft will be held at 11am eastern on Wednesday June 28th. So we will after tomorrow if this option becomes a development path.

I feel like this would be a step back in his development

 

[Joey Hoser]

I'd argue there's built in bias for any list, even with head scouts.

There's built in bias to everything. If you expect anyone to be "unbiased" then you don't understand the different types of bias and how they work.

 

[Walshy7]

I'd argue there's built in bias for any list, even with head scouts.

that's true, but my point was for example why would a OHL scout rank Lilljegren higher he never would of scouted him

 

[Gallagbi]

that's true, but my point was for example why would a OHL scout rank Lilljegren higher he never would of scouted him

I don't expect he's dealing with lower tier scouts who only have a frame of reference on a specific league and nothing else. That wouldn't make much sense for him and likely wouldn't give the solid rankings that he is known for.

I also expect the scouts are using something very close to their teams list and I can't see any scout submitting a list that ranks every single OHLer ahead of another league because that's where they are familiar.

 

[Mess]

I feel like this would be a step back in his development

How so?

Kids often get very little playing time in the SHL where in the CHL a kid plays 20+ minutes a night for 70-80 games.

 

[Walshy7]

I don't expect he's dealing with lower tier scouts who only have a frame of reference on a specific league and nothing else. That wouldn't make much sense for him and likely wouldn't give the solid rankings that he is known for.

I also expect the scouts are using something very close to their teams list and I can't see any scout submitting a list that ranks every single OHLer ahead of another league because that's where they are familiar.

no of course not but lets say even NA based scouts would lean NA skaters without even thinking about just due to exposure. I guess we will never know for sure you could be right but at the same time head of scouting type people should far too busy to be dealing with a media guy

 

[Jack Bauer]

How so?

Kids often get very little playing time in the SHL where in the CHL a kid plays 20+ minutes a night for 70-80 games.

But against inferior opposition.

If he's going to get ice time in a mens league you don't bring him to the CHL.

Much more to gain from being in a league with professionals and learning with professionals vs dominating a CHL league.

Matthews was not hurt at all by not being overplayed in the CHL. Neither was Nylander. They both took pro route and accepted less playing time to do so.

 

[DopeyFish]

How so?

Kids often get very little playing time in the SHL where in the CHL a kid plays 20+ minutes a night for 70-80 games.

Because competition matters.

He needs to refine his gap control and offense/defense decisions. Can't do that when you play in a league where offense rules the day... you get away with too many things that it's not helpful in his development.

Liljegren needs steeper competition to fix his issues, not necessarily ice time. He needs to play regularly, but against good players and systems.

 

[Gallagbi]

no of course not but lets say even NA based scouts would lean NA skaters without even thinking about just due to exposure. I guess we will never know for sure you could be right but at the same time head of scouting type people should far too busy to be dealing with a media guy

The bias you're describing is across the board though. All head scouts come from a hometown, they have varying experiences, varying trust in their head regional scouts, etc..

Seems like you're crapping on the list just because. We dont know these details for any list, so are none useful?

 

[TheProspector]

There is another option and that Liljegrin is selected in the CHL import draft and then comes to play in NA in the OHL, WHL or QMJHL.

Can you picture Mark Hunter suggesting his Knights draft him?

The 2017 CHL Import Draft will be held at 11am eastern on Wednesday June 28th. So we will after tomorrow if this option becomes a development path.

Liljegren has already played in the SHL, which is the second hardest non-NHL league in the world (after the KHL), with an NHLe of about 0.6. You really think he's best served by going to the OHL, which is literally half as challenging? He'd put up 100+ points, and not learn anything.

 

[crump]

Could be:

Y1: Sweden then mid way Marlies (if he does well in Sweden)
Y2: Marlies
Y3: Leafs


That was Nylanders path.

Even if he's lights out at Development camp, I think they are sending him back to the SHL so he won't get to show his stuff at training camp. So another year in the SHL. I think he and the Leafs would want him to settle in on one team for the year after his inconsistent placement and injury last year. Nylander was used to moving around a lot. It would give him a full year to work on things against a mens league, play for his Country at tournaments, then see how he does at training camp next season.

 

[Walshy7]

The bias you're describing is across the board though. All head scouts come from a hometown, they have varying experiences, varying trust in their head regional scouts, etc..

Seems like you're crapping on the list just because. We dont know these details for any list, so are none useful?

no im just saying "bobs list is the best because its actual scouts" doesn't actually mean its true. The scouting agencies that make list you know they have scouted all the players, they need to be reputable to keep their sites ect running, bobs list of un named scouts could be anyone that has scout in their title, I mean it could actually be totally made up by McKenzie using other lists there is no accountability to it (no I don't think he does that).

In the end all lists should be used in conjunction with each other, I just don't really like the unnamed scout/source aspect of his list.

Anyway after your reply I am done with this. Back to Lijegren