Leaf Draft Wars 2015: Who! Will! They! Pick!? - Part VI

[SprDaVE]

I had tickets to every Canada game at MLG for the '91 Canada Cup and Lindros undrafted at 18 was incredible.

One of the best players I've ever witnessed when healthy. Better then Crosby quite frankly.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Crouse is polarizing, but I think the hyperbole -both ways- is kinda crazy.

Scouts see something in him worthy of being selected in the top ten, possibly even higher. Watching him play I don't see that because of the potential to magically develop into Ovechkin lite, but because he projects as that "total package" type of player.

Size, skill, speed, possession, defensive play, physicallity, offense, leadership- the consummate pro.

I see Crouse projecting as a Backes+/ bigger meaner Hossa lite (current 60 point selke deserving beast, not past 80-90 point offensive catalyst.

While some may call that a complimentary player, its a damn elite one, and one that can separate playoff teams from contenders.

Personally I have him at 8/9 with Zacha.

Crouse is polarizing yes. And this thread will be a great bookmark to revisit one day.

Hockey is not just about pointing up points. Look at Kessel, he does bare nothing other than point up points, and he is basically being run out of town on this forum this summer.

Crouse brings a lot of hockey skills scouts want in a player, they may not be all shiny. But there is a reason why scouts have him so high.

Strange indeed.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Lindros wasn't a generational talent because he dominated physically. He had elite/generation skill, which is something Course lacks plenty of.

There are plenty of players that you can compare Crouse too, choosing Eric Lindros was definitely not an example the Head Scout of the CSS should be using if he wasn't biased on the matter.

Crouse is a fine top half prospect. I'm sure he'll get into the top 12.

You compared Crouse to Lindros for obvious reasons.

Edwards did not. Let's get that one correct and transparent.

Again he only compared Crouse at 6'4 215 to Lindros 6'4 220 when he was drafted of physically dominating players in junior as Lindros did. That's all. There was no mention of comparing them as the same player.

I haven't seen a guy who physically dominates opponents like this since Eric Lindros.

 

[SprDaVE]

You compared Crouse to Lindros for obvious reasons.

Edwards did not. Let's get that one right and transparent.

Again he only compared Crouse at 6'4 215 of physically dominating players in junior as Lindros did.

Plenty of players dominate "like Lindros" physically. Nick Ritchie last year is a great example. Unfortunately, plenty of them are not drafted top 5 because they lack that one big thing...

I wonder what it is...

Edwards chose a very poor comparison. He'd probably take it back if he could I'm sure. Lindros dominated physically and with his generation skill level, which is why he was drafted #1 and dominated so much as 17 year old.

Should I compare every physically dominating CHL players to Lindros because he was a big and physical player?

 

[Menzinger]

Points aren't the only thing that matter, but they do matter if you want a player to be in the top six. Gauthier has a fantastic non-offensive game, yet nobody would ever consider him to be worthy of a top ten pick (interestingly Crouse's offensive totals are very much in Gauthier's range...)

Some of these pro player comparisons seem really off to me. Drafting a guy who has trouble putting up points against teenagers despite have a considerable physical size advantage is worrying to me.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Plenty of players dominate "like Lindros" physically. Unfortunately, plenty of them, if not all of them. are not drafted high because they lack that one big thing...

I wonder what it is...

Plenty? Name 5 then, since that should be plenty enough to choose from, that was drafted in the top 5 of a draft as where Crouse is ranked from the OHL since Lindros was drafted.

 

[Fogelhund]

Crouse if he reaches his potential, is probably the perfect linemates for a Nylander/Marner/Barzal/Zacha first line. He has enough talent and speed to keep up, and has the size and "size skills" to allow them to play their game. If you've got those guys, he is perfect to draft... if you don't.. you probably want the skill guy first. I know BPA, but he is kind of one of those players that really is a needs based player. Everybody wants a Crouse, but not at the expense of the potentially elite skills player.

 

[SprDaVE]

that was drafted in the top 5 of a draft as where Crouse is ranked from the OHL since Lindros was drafted.

You miss-read. I said plenty of players dominated physically like Lindros but they aren't drafted in the top 5 for a reason. A good example is Nick Ritchie just last season. Guy is a bull on skates with really solid offensive tools but lacks top end talent. Alex Tuch is another really good example.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You miss-read. I said plenty of players dominated physically like Lindros but they aren't drafted in the top 5 for a reason. A good example is Nick Ritchie just last season. Guy is a bull on skates with really solid offensive tools but lacks top end talent.

You said plenty of examples of players that physically dominated the OHL that Edwards could have named instead of Lindros.

Lindros was unique, I can't think of anyone else that comes close to the physical edge he had, that he carried on to the NHL. Even Pronger didn't dominate his opponents as physically as Eric did.

Let's face it, you were called on it, and your reply was less than satisfactory.

Ritchie? He never dominated anyone physically in junior. He is not close to Lindros or Crouse physically at the same age(17).

 

[SprDaVE]

Let's face it, you were called on it, and your reply was less than satisfactory.

Less than satisfactory by your standards? Oh no

Lindros... Crouse... same sentence...

Bye.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Less than satisfactory by your standards? Oh no

Lindros... Crouse... same sentence...

Bye.

I will wait for your plenty of examples you claimed you had.

 

[SprDaVE]

No, you're right. Lawson Crouse is the most physically dominating forward since Eric Lindros. I concede. Mark Edwards is on the money with his comparison. I cannot wait.

"He's a big, physical, tough guy," Central Scouting's Chris Edwards said. "When he's playing and using his size and strength he's tough to knock off the puck. He goes to the net hard and has that power-forward mentality that's tough for people to handle. He protects the puck and has an excellent shot off the rush."

 

[The Winter Soldier]

No, you're right. Lawson Crouse is the most physically dominating forward since Eric Lindros. I concede.

Nick Ritchie is the best example you have. Then this one is not worth talking about.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Lawson Crouse.

Terrific skater, power, skill, all at 17. Lots of time to grow and become even better. This is why scouts find his skill set and size intriguing.

 

[MJ65]

One of the best players I've ever witnessed when healthy. Better then Crosby quite frankly.

I would rank him just behind Wayne and Mario (talent) - no question

Not only was he injured but also the family circus and attitude (never signed with Nordiques and then forced Flyers to trade him to the Leafs), and that is the reason I personally do not like him

 

[WTFMAN99]

I would rank him just behind Wayne and Mario (talent) - no question

Not only was he injured but also the family circus and attitude (never signed with Nordiques and then forced Flyers to trade him to the Leafs), and that is the reason I personally do not like him

Truly special players...

Gretzky-Lemiuex-Lindros-Crosby-McDavid

So rare...

 

[MJ65]

You compared Crouse to Lindros for obvious reasons.

Edwards did not. Let's get that one correct and transparent.

Again he only compared Crouse at 6'4 215 to Lindros 6'4 220 when he was drafted of physically dominating players in junior as Lindros did. That's all. There was no mention of comparing them as the same player.

If he was comparing just because of similar size , then why he would only compare him to Lindros (could have compared him to Zacha) when there are hundreds of players of more or less same size size players

These comparisons are so out of line

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If he was comparing just because of similar size , then why he would only compare him to Lindros (could have compared him to Zacha) when there are hundreds of players of same size

People get in love with certain player and would do baseless comparisons

Edwards never mentioned size, I did. His qoute has been posted only twice now. It's remarkable how many people continue to not comprehend it.

I'm thinking back to players in the OHL that physically dominated the opposition for plenty of examples as was claimed. I can't think of any other than Lindros. So Edwards used the proper player to illustrate his point afterall.

BTW, everytime a player is mentioned here that you do not like, you claim it's because of love of a player. I find this counterproductive, I could easily say the same for Marner. But I don't. I simply say he is the 7th ranked player on my list.

 

[MJ65]

Edwards never mentioned size, I did. His quoute has been posted only twice now. It's remarkable how many people continue to not comprehend it.

Ya it's hard to match your IQ. There was some comparison made and you added that he was comparing Lindros and Crouse based on their size

 

[MJ65]

Edwards never mentioned size, I did. His qoute has been posted only twice now. It's remarkable how many people continue to not comprehend it.

I'm thinking back to players in the OHL that physically dominated the opposition for plenty of examples as was claimed. I can't think of any other than Lindros. So Edwards used the proper player to illustrate his point afterall.

BTW, everytime a player is mentioned here that you do not like, you claim it's because of love of a player. I find this counterproductive, I could easily say the same for Marner. But I don't. I simply say he is the 7th ranked player on my list.

You are referring to my post on on your proposed trade LA's 13th, Richards for #24, Kadri, and I don't remember but there was another piece added and your reasoning was to pick # 13, please go back and see my posts on Merkly (how much I appreciate this kid). Obviously if some one is trying to trade multiple assets for 13th OA and Richards then there has to be some kind of a love with that player

I have listed Strome either 5th or 6th and Lawson as 10th / 11th (so what's the issue here)

To me the right comparison would be Zacha and Lawson (even though I believe Zacha is better skill wise)

 

[ULF_55]

I would rank him just behind Wayne and Mario (talent) - no question

Not only was he injured but also the family circus and attitude (never signed with Nordiques and then forced Flyers to trade him to the Leafs), and that is the reason I personally do not like him

One of the reasons why I liked Lindros is he refused to be chattel.

No one had to trade Lindros, they could have left him outside the NHL.

Leafs can draft whoever they want, but that doesn't mean Marner becomes property of the Leafs, just his NHL playing rights.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You are referring to my post on on your proposed trade LA's 13th, Richards for #24, Kadri, and I don't remember but there was another piece added and your reasoning was to pick # 13, please go back and see my posts on Merkly (how much I appreciate this kid). Obviously if some one is trying to trade multiple assets for 13th OA and Richards then there has to be some kind of a love with that player

I have listed Strome either 5th or 6th and Lawson as 10th / 11th (so what's the issue here)

To me the right comparison would be Zacha and Lawson (even though I believe Zacha is better skill wise)

All things equal, we have agreed skill is the most important factor to who the Leafs pick.

Hunter said skill is defined as "“Skill to us is hockey sense. Puck skills. All the things that make a guy unique."

Puck Skills is easily noticeable. Hockey sense, more yes and no. All things that make a guy unique? Not so much. I think this is where Crouse falls into his own unique niche.

It is easier to draft small guys with skill. It is not so easy to find bigger players with skill. This is the part that makes Crouse unique. It may make Strome unique to some.

Most would say there is not a large difference in talent from Strome to Marner. Since it is much harder to find size and talent. For argument's sake how about Leafs draft Strome, and pick up a pick to draft Konecny or Barzal later if we want a player similar to Marner. Bracco should be available at #24 if we want small and skilled.

 

[Gallagbi]

Edwards never mentioned size, I did. His qoute has been posted only twice now. It's remarkable how many people continue to not comprehend it.

Certainly looks like he mentioned size.

"I think you'd have to be nuts not to take Crouse," Edwards said. "You get a guy that size ... I haven't seen a guy who physically dominates opponents like this since Eric Lindros. He drops the shoulder and takes the puck to the net. And he takes it wherever he wants it."

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=103347797

Funny that some people blamed his concussion problems on his physical dominance in junior.

 

[Smif]

Here's a little something - something I've been working on:

Here's some high profile 1st Rd'ers from the OHL since the 2009 draft. It is their goals & points percentage based on their teams scoring. It is also pro-rated for their GP (VERY important IMO). Have a looksie:

McDavid - 52.9%pts - 19.4%goals
Tavares - 52.3%pts - 29%goals (Blended stat between LON & OSH)
Marner - 47.7%pts - 16.7%goals
Seguin - 47.1%pts - 21.3%goals
Yakupov - 46.3%pts - 20.8%goals
Stamkos - 45.7%pts - 25.0%goals
Dal Colle - 42.4%pts - 17.4%goals
R.Strome - 41.2%pts - 12.8%goals
D.Strome - 39.5%pts - 13.8%goals
T.Hall - 38.7%pts - 14.6%goals
Bennett - 36.4%pts - 14.4%goals
M.Domi - 34%pts - 15.2%goals
N.Kadri - 33.2%pts - 10.6%goals
Crouse - 32.5%pts - 18.5%goals

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Here's a little something - something I've been working on:

Here's some high profile 1st Rd'ers from the OHL since the 2009 draft. It is their goals & points percentage based on their teams scoring. It is also pro-rated for their GP (VERY important IMO). Have a looksie:

McDavid - 52.9%pts - 19.4%goals
Tavares - 52.3%pts - 29%goals (Blended stat between LON & OSH)
Marner - 47.7%pts - 16.7%goals
Seguin - 47.1%pts - 21.3%goals
Yakupov - 46.3%pts - 20.8%goals
Stamkos - 45.7%pts - 25.0%goals
Dal Colle - 42.4%pts - 17.4%goals
R.Strome - 41.2%pts - 12.8%goals
D.Strome - 39.5%pts - 13.8%goals
T.Hall - 38.7%pts - 14.6%goals
Bennett - 36.4%pts - 14.4%goals
M.Domi - 34%pts - 15.2%goals
N.Kadri - 33.2%pts - 10.6%goals
Crouse - 32.5%pts - 18.5%goals

I mentioned this should be factored in, good of you to point this out. Crouse playing on a weaker team than London or Erie. 29 goals in 56 games is a solid number for Kingston. He also had 2 more goals to zero to Bennett in OHL playoffs. I heard he is pretty good.