"Last Night's Attendance" Thread II

[Ted Hoffman]

St. Louis is a big market? Really?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

St. Louis is a big market? Really?

Well, it's no Winnipeg...

 

[jkrdevil]

this thread was created by a moderator to ensure the attendance figures of every team are posted.

I'm sure it was created so that people like you who like to ***** about other teams attendance only post in one thread instead of start a new one every night. Not so that every game's attendance is posted.

 

[Timmy]

this thread was created by a moderator to ensure the attendance figures of every team are posted.

BS.

This thread was created because the original hit 1,000 posts. Your post, however, does a wonderful job of hilighting how somebody can simply state something as a fact, without having to actually defend it. "The moderator" could have simply locked any new threads if he or she wished to squelch further discussion regarding the tarnishing of various markets and their fans.



The OP of the second thread states:

Ground rules
1. Make sure you've read the original thead first; we've covered quite a few things there, and it might answer some questions.
2. Keep the discussions civil. Disagree all you want, but leave the name calling back in 6th grade with the other 6th graders (unless you're a 6th grader yourself, in which case ... you've got homework - quit wasting time here!).
3. If you're going to post attendance figures for "last night", you must post ALL of the attendance figures. Being selective about which numbers to post will not be allowed. (How you want to interpret them is up to you - see point #5.)
4. Discussions about TV ratings should go in a separate (and I'm sure equally entertaining) thread.
5. If you're going to make a point, be prepared to back it up. You'll probably get called out on it.

Failure to abide by these rules may result in you being banned from the thread. This is the only warning that everyone will get about this. (And no, if you get tossed you will not be let back in.)

We now fade into the still-raging discussion, already in progress ...

 

[Ted Hoffman]

"The moderator" could have simply locked any new threads if he or she wished to squelch further discussion regarding the tarnishing of various markets and their fans.

Since "the all-omnipotent, all-powerful being of pure greatness and creator of all things non-evil" was nixed by higher-ups, I prefer to be referred to as "it", thank you.

 

[Timmy]

Since "the all-omnipotent, all-powerful being of pure greatness and creator of all things non-evil" was nixed by higher-ups, I prefer to be referred to as "it", thank you.

How about "ithead"?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

How about "ithead"?

That's the 2nd funniest thing I've seen here this week. (The other was the comment on Lamoriello calling Bettman to ask for more time at the deadline - which should become an all-time HF classic.)

 

[bishop12]

Good thing this thread actualy has last nights attendance

haha No kidding...what were last nights attendance numbers then?

I don't feel like wading through ages of **** to find out either.

 

[garnetpalmetto]

haha No kidding...what were last nights attendance numbers then?

I don't feel like wading through ages of **** to find out either.

Carolina @ Ottawa - 19,261
Minnesota @ Calgary - 19,289
Nashville @ San Jose - 17,496

 

[OG6ix]

The isles drew 12,000+ last night and this was after acquiring Ryan Smith. This just proves that there are too many teams NY/NJ.

 

[Timmy]

The isles drew 12,000+ last night and this was after acquiring Ryan Smith. This just proves that there are too many teams NY/NJ.

Exactly.

I'm just not certain that big markets are ready for hockey yet, given that the end of the lockout made it to page one of just about every sports section in North America except New York's papers.


Winnipeg Ho! Dibs on the first white towel!

 

[OG6ix]

Exactly.

I'm just not certain that big markets are ready for hockey yet, given that the end of the lockout made it to page one of just about every sports section in North America except New York's papers.


Winnipeg Ho! Dibs on the first white towel!

If the NHL goes back to Winnipeg they might as well fold the league. Or merge with the AHL.

 

[Hawker14]

March 1st.

Non-Traditional US Markets:

Tampa Bay at Washington 10,462
Dallas at Florida 11,822
Anaheim at Los Angeles 17,620


Traditional US Markets:

Philadelphia at Boston 12,294
St. Louis at NY Islanders 12,263
Colorado at Chicago 10,522
Pittsburgh at NY Rangers 18,200


Canadian Markets:

Minnesota at Edmonton 16,839
Phoenix at Vancouver 18,630


Only 2 of the 7 US teams have good attendance on this night, while 100% of the Canadian teams do (as usual).

 

[OG6ix]

March 1st.

Non-Traditional US Markets:

Tampa Bay at Washington 10,462
Dallas at Florida 11,822
Anaheim at Los Angeles 17,620


Traditional US Markets:

Philadelphia at Boston 12,294
St. Louis at NY Islanders 12,263
Colorado at Chicago 10,522
Pittsburgh at NY Rangers 18,200


Canadian Markets:

Minnesota at Edmonton 16,839
Phoenix at Vancouver 18,630


Only 2 of the 7 US teams have good attendance on this night, while 100% of the Canadian teams do (as usual).

Blame Canada!

 

[GSC2k2*]

March 1st.

Non-Traditional US Markets:

Tampa Bay at Washington 10,462
Dallas at Florida 11,822
Anaheim at Los Angeles 17,620


Traditional US Markets:

Philadelphia at Boston 12,294
St. Louis at NY Islanders 12,263
Colorado at Chicago 10,522
Pittsburgh at NY Rangers 18,200


Canadian Markets:

Minnesota at Edmonton 16,839
Phoenix at Vancouver 18,630


Only 2 of the 7 US teams have good attendance on this night, while 100% of the Canadian teams do (as usual).

Don't you mean that the Canadian teams and the 2 US teams have good "distributed ticket" numbers?

It sure has been a while for you to be able to pick a spot again, huh? Like a Wednesday night.

 

[Realm]

Don't you mean that the Canadian teams and the 2 US teams have good "distributed ticket" numbers?

It sure has been a while for you to be able to pick a spot again, huh? Like a Wednesday night.

Like a Monday, Tuesday, Wed., Thur, etc.... Lets face it, Not enough people care on Long Island, or Boston. Chicago fans I can see why they are frustrated at least, but the Islanders make one of the biggest trades and they can only get 12 grand in their building for his 1st game?? That will not allow NYI to retain Smyth.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

Don't you mean that the Canadian teams and the 2 US teams have good "distributed ticket" numbers?

The one thing that does bother me about that is that if you do believe that all teams give away a certain amount of tickets, that means that teams attracting 10-12 000 fans per game are actually selling only 8-10 000. So even if all teams do it, at least other teams are selling out, 8000 fans isn't far off of what Winnipeg and Hartford had before leaving, in run down arenas with a lot less marketing and corporate support to boot.

No matter how you look at it, 10000 fans is troubling.

 

[GSC2k2*]

The one thing that does bother me about that is that if you do believe that all teams give away a certain amount of tickets, that means that teams attracting 10-12 000 fans per game are actually selling only 8-10 000. So even if all teams do it, at least other teams are selling out, 8000 fans isn't far off of what Winnipeg and Hartford had before leaving, in run down arenas with a lot less marketing and corporate support to boot.

No matter how you look at it, 10000 fans is troubling.

You are missing something. All teams do give away some tickets, and that INCLUDES Winnipeg and Hartford way back when. Compare apples to apples.

Incidentally, even the teams that "sell out" have a few tickets that are freebies for their corporate partners, friends and family. That is the way it is in hockey, and the NBA, and MLB and even the vaunted NFL. It is that way in the Premier League, and the NLL and every league in between.

That being said, do not be alarmed. What matters is not bums in seats, but revenue. 10,000 fans is not a preferable thing, but it is not "troubling" unless there are no signs or opportunities for growth and even then if the team is strongly supported elsewhere through strong local TV ratings and alternate streams of income and the ticket prices are high enough that revenue is strong anyway. I.e., if you are averaging only 10,000 fans but they are paying $200 per ticket, that is arguably a much better position than 15,000 fans paying $50 per ticket (even after accounting for concession revenue differences from the extra 5,000 fans).

 

[Sotnos]

Don't you mean that the Canadian teams and the 2 US teams have good "distributed ticket" numbers?

It sure has been a while for you to be able to pick a spot again, huh? Like a Wednesday night.

And a Thursday schedule full of markets that we all know get lousy attendance. Publishing weekend #s wouldn't be half as fun, I guess.

The traditional vs. non-traditional labels are also only there to be offensive. LA pre-dates the Isles, so if you're putting LA in as non-traditional then the Isles should be too, right? Otherwise I guess you're just using the "does it snow there" criteria.

 

[Ismellofhockey]

that INCLUDES Winnipeg and Hartford way back when. Compare apples to apples.

You have to agree that's hard to prove since no team (in their right mind) would announce that they gave tickets away, there's no record for years gone by.
That said, I only started hearing about giveaways in the late nineties, which doesn't mean there weren't any before, but it does seem to indicate that it became an issue way after Winnipeg and Hartford or Quebec had left. IMO it fits in more with the corporate driven league the NHL became in the 90s.

Incidentally, even the teams that "sell out" have a few tickets that are freebies for their corporate partners, friends and family. That is the way it is in hockey, and the NBA, and MLB and even the vaunted NFL. It is that way in the Premier League, and the NLL and every league in between.

Perhaps but at least they sell out the remaining tickets indicating demand.

That being said, do not be alarmed. What matters is not bums in seats, but revenue. 10,000 fans is not a preferable thing, but it is not "troubling" unless there are no signs or opportunities for growth and even then if the team is strongly supported elsewhere through strong local TV ratings and alternate streams of income and the ticket prices are high enough that revenue is strong anyway. I.e., if you are averaging only 10,000 fans but they are paying $200 per ticket, that is arguably a much better position than 15,000 fans paying $50 per ticket (even after accounting for concession revenue differences from the extra 5,000 fans).

Though when a gate revenue-driven-league attracts 10000 fans at the gate, it's not much to cheer about either. I very much doubt that the Islanders Panthers and Caps have $200 average ticket prices too nor can Chicago, in particular, count on very much TV revenue.

 

[GWhale*]

There weren't ticket giveaways in Hartford, ever. Hardly any promotions of any kind either. And prices were higher than the Hurricanes fans pay today.

They can cover up the mistakes however they want, but anyone intelligent can figure it out.

 

[GSC2k2*]

There weren't ticket giveaways in Hartford, ever. Hardly any promotions of any kind either. And prices were higher than the Hurricanes fans pay today.

They can cover up the mistakes however they want, but anyone intelligent can figure it out.

Yup. Uh-huh.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Though when a gate revenue-driven-league attracts 10000 fans at the gate, it's not much to cheer about either. I very much doubt that the Islanders Panthers and Caps have $200 average ticket prices too nor can Chicago, in particular, count on very much TV revenue.

As an aside, the now-old canard about the NHL being a "gate-driven league" really is starting to gain enough traction that people are beginning to spout it as if the NHL gets all or nearly all its revenue from ticket sales. For the record, "Ticket sales" in the 2002-03 season accounted for about 50% of revenues, including playoffs when ticket revenue is the big adder and it is not accompanied/offset by sponsorships and more TV money. Other in-arena revenue is about another 20%, but that includes advertising and many other non "gate" revenues.

I just want to point that out so that people don't stroll around thinking that the NHL relies totally on the gate. Far from it. Their ticket revenue is a greater proportion of overall revenue than the NFL, but that is not exactly stunning in comparison to a league that has a 16 game season, a game that works well on TV and which, incidentally, draws a fewer gross number of fans to its games.

 

[jkrdevil]

And a Thursday schedule full of markets that we all know get lousy attendance. Publishing weekend #s wouldn't be half as fun, I guess.

The traditional vs. non-traditional labels are also only there to be offensive. LA pre-dates the Isles, so if you're putting LA in as non-traditional then the Isles should be too, right? Otherwise I guess you're just using the "does it snow there" criteria.

Well he obviously isn't using the Does it snow there criteria as he list Washington in non-traditional. I certainly remember having to walk through snow last week when I went to the Devils-Caps game last week in Washington.

Honestly attendance is a bad measuring stick for fan support considering there are too many individual factors that are different for each location. Take Washington for example where if you want to buy season tickets in certain areas you also have to buy season tickets to the Wizards and Mystics first. No surprise those are the section that empty and drag attendance down.

 

[Vagrant]

Yup. Uh-huh.

I wouldn't try to argue with revisionist history. You're only going to be spinning your wheels.

Every single one of the 18,800+ tonight in the sell out building were tickets that were given away.