Speculation: Laine on the move again? (Mod warning OP)

[Stephen]

Very interested to see what happens with Laine on his next contract. Obviously he still possesses that one outstanding scoring dimension which is always a premium in this game, but he's a few years removed from his 40 goal season now and hasn't exactly convinced the hockey world he's maturing in other aspects of the game. With a flat cap I'm not a lot of teams will be in a position to trade for him and pay him. And in Columbus the coaching fit doesn't seem great at first glance.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

Then why would we consider moving Laine to NJ?

Pavel Zacha would be coming back in return

 

[LTIR]

For the 50000000th time. PLD was not traded or wanted out because of Torts. Not primarily at least. This has been confirmed by literally everyone involved yet this narrative still exists. The main reason is still not known for fact to this day, but it’s widely assumed because he wanted to play in Canada/a market where hockey was #1, and fear of being left behind in Columbus in 2-3 years (Jones and Werenski leaving)

Also, Torts is 100% gone after this season. Book it.

Finally, Jarmo said the jackets aren’t rebuilding and your offer of 1st+player+prospect would imply a rebuild. I’m going to bet pretty heavy that he’s a blue jacket next year.

Yeah, No.
Everyone outside of Columbus knows that it's the coach. You guys are getting feed to control damage because Torts is still employed.
Once he is gone, local media will start telling the real truth.

No one misses Canada that much or wants to play in a fish bowl.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Yeah, No.
Everyone outside of Columbus knows that it's the coach. You guys are getting feed to control damage because Torts is still employed.
Once he is gone, local media will start telling the real truth.

No one misses Canada that much or wants to play in a fish bowl.

Other than the words directly from the players mouth, the words from our GM's mouth, Torts himself, and media reports at the time and now, yeah you're right. Damage control.

People are just desperately wanting this anti-Torts narrative to be the reason for everything. People probably think he drove away Panarin or some shit like that. But no, its wrong, but its the easiest thing to point to, so everyone just does that.

 

[mriswith]

I feel like this trade somehow ended up a lose-lose for both teams. I guess Columbus also got Roslovic, so that's a benefit, but it seems like Laine in Winnipeg and Dubois in Columbus were both better than Laine in Columbus and Dubois in Winnipeg.

PLD's value would be the same now as it was when traded, Laine not so much, so in that sense one team is worse off than the other. Ultimately that doesn't matter if the teams don't flip the players.

I still think it's hilarious that these malcontents demanded trades and were sent to the other North American countries version of the city they were in

 

[LTIR]

Other than the words directly from the players mouth, the words from our GM's mouth, Torts himself, and media reports at the time and now, yeah you're right. Damage control.

People are just desperately wanting this anti-Torts narrative to be the reason for everything. People probably think he drove away Panarin or some shit like that. But no, its wrong, but its the easiest thing to point to, so everyone just does that.

'your' media, your GM, your coach.
PLD is a professional and will not be running Torts under the bus, these guys are trained to give blandest comments. Laine isn't a such player and will spill the truth the moment he is traded away.
Fact: Tortorella is an aggressive coach who may not drive people away but some players certainly are repelled by him. Not all are okay with his style of coaching or his profane language.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

'your' media, your GM, your coach.
PLD is a professional and will not be running Torts under the bus, these guys are trained to give blandest comments. Laine isn't a such player and will spill the truth the moment he is traded away.
Fact: Tortorella is an aggressive coach who may not drive people away but some players certainly are repelled by him. Not all are okay with his style of coaching or his profane language.

Nope. Not just OUR media. Not just OUR Gm. It was everyone.

Your fact is true for some players, but not in the case of PLD. This has already been confirmed by the player himself. Even in his blanket bland comments he said things like "Torts always wants to make you better" and "I always play better when I have a tough coach." If he truly wanted to say something negative about Torts in his bland blanket way, he wouldn't have said anything at all.

Was Torts a reason PLD wanted out? Yeah, probably. Was he THE reason? Nope. Those reasons are already explained in the original post you quoted.

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

PLD is a professional

You were saying?

 

[LTIR]

You were saying?

And Tortorella still claims he never benched Dubois or Laine.

If coach says it, GM says it and Columbus media says it then no benchings have ever happened. Right?

"From Day 1 of camp, John Tortorella wanted to expose Pierre-Luc Dubois," Brisson said, according to TSN's Darren Dreger on Thursday's edition of "Insider Trading." "This included going on (the) radio the second week, which made it more difficult for (general manager Jarmo Kekalainen) to do his job. Now, he continues to use different media platforms trying to justify his position."
Tortorella has repeatedly spoken about Dubois' trade request in late December. In early January, prior to Dubois' trade to the Winnipeg Jets, the Columbus Blue Jackets head coach said on the radio that Dubois "hasn't given a reason why he wants to leave." In an interview that aired Wednesday, Tortorella acknowledged that he and the 22-year-old had conflict while calling today's athletes "softer."

 

[Jive Pawnbroker]

And Tortorella still claims he never benched Dubois or Laine.

If coach says it, GM says it and Columbus media says it then no benchings have ever happened. Right?

"From Day 1 of camp, John Tortorella wanted to expose Pierre-Luc Dubois," Brisson said, according to TSN's Darren Dreger on Thursday's edition of "Insider Trading." "This included going on (the) radio the second week, which made it more difficult for (general manager Jarmo Kekalainen) to do his job. Now, he continues to use different media platforms trying to justify his position."
Tortorella has repeatedly spoken about Dubois' trade request in late December. In early January, prior to Dubois' trade to the Winnipeg Jets, the Columbus Blue Jackets head coach said on the radio that Dubois "hasn't given a reason why he wants to leave." In an interview that aired Wednesday, Tortorella acknowledged that he and the 22-year-old had conflict while calling today's athletes "softer."

Words are cheap; actions speak volumes.

Torts is gone after this season anyways; I've given up caring what you think.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

And Tortorella still claims he never benched Dubois or Laine.

Nope. Not true:

Here's when he said he "didn't bench" Dubois after the second game of the year:

"You guys are really dissecting this benching and sitting. I guess I benched Max [Domi] the other night, you said. Slow down, boys. You'll know when I bench someone. I have to make decisions when the game is being played, when I think someone is going at certain times. But don't try to manifest something as far as the benching. That's all part of a three-period hockey game."

Tortorella denies he benched disgruntled Dubois

However, literally a few games later when the shift happened against Tampa, he said this:

“I’ve coached Luc like this for a couple of years as far as trying to get him to get some growth in his game and growth as a pro, so nothing changes there,” Tortorella said after the game on FOX Sports Ohio. “There’s more spotlight on it, I get that, I get that you guys have to ask me the questions. But I think you’re asking the wrong guy. I’m just a coach trying to make it work with a hockey club, trying to find a way to win games. The person you keep talking to me about, you should ask him.”

He does assign the minutes though, right?

“Yes, I do,” Tortorella responded. “And just like everybody else, it is what it is. I go with what I see and we’ll go from there. And you know what? … I really don’t make decisions as far as minutes. It’s up to the player to show me, and if there’s one thing I’m pretty easy to read on, is the minutes. You’re going to get out there if you play, if you play the proper way, and you’re going to get back out there. So the onus is on the player, and all players, and not just the player we’re talking about here that sat. It’s all the players. So I’m not a hard guy to read as far as that’s concerned.”

What John Tortorella Said About Benching Pierre-Luc Dubois For Horrid Effort - NESN.com



As far as Laine, not only did he never deny benching him, they met about it right away and put it out there the first time:

"It wasn't because of the missed assignment," he told reporters. "There's a number of things that come into play with that, and that will stay in the locker room."
"It's what I feel I need to do," Tortorella said. "The last thing I want to do is bench a player. But ... we're just disjointed in all areas, both on and off the ice.

"It's an easy thing to bench a player. That's the last thing I want to do, but if I think I need to do it, then I need to do. I did with Patty and I felt I needed to do it with Kuks in where he was struggling so bad. ... Kuks has given us a lot of good hockey, but the last couple of games, it's been a struggle."

Blue Jackets' John Tortorella benches Patrik Laine

Did Torts target PLD after the trade request thing like Brisson alleges? Yeah, I think that's fair. But was Torts open about why and when he benches someone? Yep. Every. single. time.

 

[TS Quint]

Nope. Not true:

Here's when he said he "didn't bench" Dubois after the second game of the year:



Tortorella denies he benched disgruntled Dubois

However, literally a few games later when the shift happened against Tampa, he said this:



What John Tortorella Said About Benching Pierre-Luc Dubois For Horrid Effort - NESN.com



As far as Laine, not only did he never deny benching him, they met about it right away and put it out there the first time:





Blue Jackets' John Tortorella benches Patrik Laine

Did Torts target PLD after the trade request thing like Brisson alleges? Yeah, I think that's fair. But was Torts open about why and when he benches someone? Yep. Every. single. time.

Red herring.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Then why would we consider moving Laine to NJ?

Because you might improve your team?

 

[Dr Quincy]

Other than the words directly from the players mouth, the words from our GM's mouth, Torts himself, and media reports at the time and now, yeah you're right. Damage control.

People are just desperately wanting this anti-Torts narrative to be the reason for everything. People probably think he drove away Panarin or some shit like that. But no, its wrong, but its the easiest thing to point to, so everyone just does that.

I mean, it may be Torts.
It may not be Torts.

But you really believe everything a GM or a coach or a player says to the media?

It's clear, incontravertable that Dubois and Torts had issues. It's great that they publicly said kinda nice things about each other.

You know who else did that but didn't like each other? Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Both publicly said Brady didn't leave because of the coach.


But Brady left because of the coach. It's not in Jarmo's self-interest to cut the legs off the coach by saying he's the reason a guy wanted out. It's not in Torts' self interest to say players don't like playing for him. And it's not in Dubois' self-interest to rip a coach.

It's totally possible it wasn't the coach, but what they say publicly means absolutely zilch one way or the other.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Red herring.

Nothing misleading about it.

I mean, it may be Torts.
It may not be Torts.

But you really believe everything a GM or a coach or a player says to the media?

It's clear, incontravertable that Dubois and Torts had issues. It's great that they publicly said kinda nice things about each other.

You know who else did that but didn't like each other? Tom Brady and Bill Belichick. Both publicly said Brady didn't leave because of the coach.


But Brady left because of the coach. It's not in Jarmo's self-interest to cut the legs off the coach by saying he's the reason a guy wanted out. It's not in Torts' self interest to say players don't like playing for him. And it's not in Dubois' self-interest to rip a coach.

It's totally possible it wasn't the coach, but what they say publicly means absolutely zilch one way or the other.

I literally said Torts was a reason.

 

[TS Quint]

Nothing misleading about it.



I literally said Torts was a reason.

Yes they guy you quoted was wrong about Torts denying the benching but you are using that to distract from Dreger's report that PLD's agent said the issue PLD had was with Torts which is the real topic.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Yes they guy you quoted was wrong about Torts denying the benching but you are using that to distract from Dreger's report that PLD's agent said the issue PLD had was with Torts which is the real topic.

The real topic was why PLD wanted out.

Torts' treatment of PLD this season was not the reason he wanted out, since he asked for a trade prior to the season starting. Which is what the agents statement was going at. If it was about their relationship as a whole, then yeah, Torts likely would be the main reason he wanted out. But it wasn't. It was just for his treatment of PLD this season.

 

[Stubu]

The real topic was why PLD wanted out.

Torts' treatment of PLD this season was not the reason he wanted out, since he asked for a trade prior to the season starting. Which is what the agents statement was going at. If it was about their relationship as a whole, then yeah, Torts likely would be the main reason he wanted out. But it wasn't. It was just for his treatment of PLD this season.

Side question, is there a reason he's not called Dubois but PLD?

I can't see what his first name Pierre-Luc had to do with anything.

(From a sociological angle, is it an easier way of forgetting, just going by an acronym? Inevitably to be lost in the pervasive technology/military/politico and growing, alphabet soup of today?)

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Columbus will have a new coach this season so what will be really interesting is how Laine fares under that new coach, especially if he's very different from Torts (which would likely put him closer to Maurice). Ultimately, unless Columbus upgrades their team, especially at center this might be a tough fit for Laine. Of course, that reinforces many of the concerns that are out there about him as a player.

 

[cbjgirl]

Side question, is there a reason he's not called Dubois but PLD?

I can't see what his first name Pierre-Luc had to do with anything.

(From a sociological angle, is it an easier way of forgetting, just going by an acronym? Inevitably to be lost in the pervasive technology/military/politico and growing, alphabet soup of today?)

When PLD first joined the CBJ, Brandon Dubinsky was also on the team. Dubinsky = Dubie. Dubois would probably also = Dubie. Team couldn't have two Dubies. Hence, Dubois turned into PLD.

 

[Krispy]

Laine needs great linemates, he is not good or ''generational'' to carry a team. Overhyped player with a great shot and thats about it, funny how this ''blame Torts'' thing goes on, but to be fair Laine always had ''it's not me but him...'' through his NHL career. If I'm not mistaken, he was barely couple games in Columbus and already got into beef with assistant coach. Great shot, yeah, but that's about it.

 

[Notsince67]

They traded with the Leafs twice in as many days.. Why not Laine to the Leafs tomorrow?

Who on the fourth line would he replace?

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Would the jackets ever be interested in trading his RFA rights to Seattle?

depending on who they take, or just for picks in general.

I would imagine Seattle would overpay for his RFA rights versus another team because for revenue and popularity sake it would be great for them to have a star player right off the bat.

They (BJ's) just traded their first line center for him. They aren't trading his rights to an expansion team.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

With all due respect, some of us have been following this story much more closely than you have.

We still don't know why PLD demanded a trade. I wouldn't assume that JLGP has any inside intel. Columbus' FO is famously tight lipped, with no intel getting out. No one knew they were going all-in in 2019, not the beat writers or studio guys or anyone outside the FO and ownership. I wouldn't rule out that it was coaching related, PLD says it isn't but we don't know.

I think your assumption that a GM would never take a coach over a top center is incorrect. It really depends on the team. In Columbus' case the focus since Jarmo and JD came in has been about doing the right thing. They would not can a coach to please a young player. Columbus actually did that once when Brassard and some kids had an issue with Hitchcock, and the team ended up falling apart afterward. Even with Torts in his last year they would not do it. Again though, I must remind you, we don't know the extent to which Torts is involved in this. He is a big draw in the media so of course everyone wants to write him into every story, but sometimes he is just a coach and not involved.

I'll put out a more nuanced theory that might account for why he signed the deal and later quit. The offseason trade request had nothing to do with Torts. But Torts behaved erratically after the request went public, talking about it on the radio despite Jarmo and Brisson's agreement to keep it quiet, and perhaps not coaching the player in the same way. That was what precipitated the 'Quitting'. Obviously in that situation firing the coach wouldn't make the trade request go away.

A couple notes:

- Dubois' "shift" was somewhat overblown. He was clearly not in a good head space. But we've seen that kind of bad performance from many players around the league. It would not have stood out if that was Domi or Laine.

- Dubois was not the Jackets best player last year. Werenski and Bjorkstrand were both better.

That's revisionist. Jacket fans were clamoring about Dubois outplaying Auston Matthews in the playoffs and how that was his coming out party, led the team in regular season scoring too

 

[Notsince67]

They (BJ's) just traded their first line center for him. They aren't trading his rights to an expansion team.

Curious. Do you think there is no hesitation to table a 7.5MM qualifying offer to retain his rfa rights in columbus...effectively making him the highest paid player on the team?