Ladd (36% retained), Harrison, Fraser to CHI for Marko Dano, '16 1st, conditional 3rd

[Mortimer Snerd]

My biggest challenge with Dano has been figuring out where he fits in the lineup. If we think about pairs or groups of players that seem to make sense together, Dano is hard for me to place. Ehlers-Scheif-Wheeler are an obvious line. You probably put your most skilled rookie winger with Little and Perreault (Laine or Conner, I presume). That Petan-Copp-Armia line looked pretty good together in a small sample. You have to fit the other skilled rookie winger in with a vet or two. I can't imagine a Dano-Lowry-Connor line, for example. And you still need to find a spot for Stafford.

So who does Dano work well with??? Not that he can't, but there was no partnership that I saw him have last year that left me saying "that's who he fits with".

E - S - W
Laine - Little - Stafford
Connor - Perreault - Dano
Lowry - Burmi - Armia

I could probably come up with half a dozen possible lineups that all have Dano at 3RW.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm a Dano fan as well and I'm not sure why people are down on him. As a prospect and by just about every measure he has proven more than Copp, Petan, Armia, Kosmo, Lemieux, Lipon. Maybe we haven't had enough time to embrace him as our own yet? But I see him as a long term main stay in the bottom 6 who can move up on occasion if necessary. Let's not forget he was taken the same draft as Petan, Morrisey & Lipon and has 31 points in 69 games with a 5-5, 2.10 P/60 and a 53.9 CF%. And yes this is a lot better than his draft mates.

His skating style looks choppy though.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

In that circumstance it has to be Armia who goes. Its not even close between him and Myers. You are suggesting losing a top 4 D in order to keep a 4th line winger.

Joel Armia the 4th line winger?

The same Joel Armia that outscored Jesse Puljujarvi as a draft eligible 17 year old playing in Liiga?

Same kid who was a 16th overall and got stuck in a gong show that we call the Buffalo Tank job.

I'm not Sure he has ever projected as a 4th liner.

Calling Myers a top 4 D man is almost a stretch. He usually treads water at best with his minutes and he gets the advantage of being carried by a pretty good partner. His best year was what, 8 years ago?

He is at best the 4th best Dman on the team and I'm not sure I like him better than Postma. Never mind JoMo is right behind him too.

I'll take players that havent reached their prime like Dano and Armia over Myers all day.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Joel Armia the 4th line winger?

The same Joel Armia that outscored Jesse Puljujarvi as a draft eligible 17 year old playing in Liiga?

Same kid who was a 16th overall and got stuck in a gong show that we call the Buffalo Tank job.

I'm not Sure he has ever projected as a 4th liner.

Calling Myers a top 4 D man is almost a stretch. He usually treads water at best with his minutes and he gets the advantage of being carried by a pretty good partner. His best year was what, 8 years ago?

He is at best the 4th best Dman on the team and I'm not sure I like him better than Postma. Never mind JoMo is right behind him too.

I'll take players that havent reached their prime like Dano and Armia over Myers all day.

Yeah, that's the Armia I'm talking about.

I don't think I mentioned Dano. You are seriously underrating Myers. Yes he has his warts. That's why he is a 2nd pairing D not 1st although on some teams he plays 1st pair. Armia had a stretch this year where he finally started to score a bit after a long spell of not producing much in the AHL or the NHL. Breakthrough! Then he was injured. When he came back he was right back to looking very good but not producing much. I still have hopes for him to do much better but as it stands right now he is the 4th RW on the Jets depth chart. That makes him a 4th liner. I didn't say a career 4th liner. But no way you keep him over Myers. No ******* way. AINEC.

 

[kylbaz]

I'm not a Dano fan. Very meh player to me. Holden is very high on him, so I'll give him a chance. I'd prefer to see him on the 4th line though.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not a Dano fan. Very meh player to me. Holden is very high on him, so I'll give him a chance. I'd prefer to see him on the 4th line though.

The numbers favour Dano. Small sample sizes though. I hope we see a full season of each next year.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

Yeah, that's the Armia I'm talking about.

I don't think I mentioned Dano. You are seriously underrating Myers. Yes he has his warts. That's why he is a 2nd pairing D not 1st although on some teams he plays 1st pair. Armia had a stretch this year where he finally started to score a bit after a long spell of not producing much in the AHL or the NHL. Breakthrough! Then he was injured. When he came back he was right back to looking very good but not producing much. I still have hopes for him to do much better but as it stands right now he is the 4th RW on the Jets depth chart. That makes him a 4th liner. I didn't say a career 4th liner. But no way you keep him over Myers. No ******* way. AINEC.

Fair enough.

Dano!

 

[sully1410]

I would rather lose Myers then Armia or Dano to expansion.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I would rather lose Myers then Armia or Dano to expansion.

I couldn't disagree more. Myers plays 20+ minutes a night and is pretty solid. Nothing against dano or armia but bottom 6 forwards like them would be way easier to replace.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

As of today, Myers is far more important to the Jets than either Dano or Armia. He's on a great contract. And we're not exactly bursting at the seams with defense like we are with forwards.

But we don't really know what we have in Armia and Dano yet. Those predicting big things for those guys could end up being right.

It works out a lot better for the Jets if the expansion draft happens this year, since so many of our players are still protected due to contract status. But if it happens a year later, at least we'll have a lot more time to watch these guys in action before we have to make a call.

 

[sully1410]

I couldn't disagree more. Myers plays 20+ minutes a night and is pretty solid. Nothing against dano or armia but bottom 6 forwards like them would be way easier to replace.

Bottom six forwards with huge upside. Myers is a so so RHD. With our depth at the position, he's pretty expendable.

 

[HannuJ]

Mods, can we lock this topic up and start a new topic with a more accurate subject line?
this "confirmed" trade was months ago, not recent. every time i see it near the top of discussions, i gasp at the thought of Ladd being re-signed

 

[HannuJ]

i would rather lose myers then armia or dano to expansion.

lol...

 

[Eyeseeing]

Mods, can we lock this topic up and start a new topic with a more accurate subject line?
this "confirmed" trade was months ago, not recent. every time i see it near the top of discussions, i gasp at the thought of Ladd being re-signed

Yeah an above average LW is
certainly not what we need
Totally understand your consternation.

 

[nobody important]

Yeah an above average LW is
certainly not what we need
Totally understand your consternation.

How about we look at Ladd as a LW who is likely on the downslope, with contract expectations exceeding what he still brings to the table and which could put the Jets into cap difficulty in years to come, and who made it clear that he was not happy with the Jets choice to go with youth? Could you understand the consternation then?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Bottom six forwards with huge upside. Myers is a so so RHD. With our depth at the position, he's pretty expendable.

He is our 4D. We don't have a lot of top 4 D depth. If we lost Myers we might very well have Stu in our top 4 again. The fact that we have 3 top 4 RD creates a false impression that 1 could be expendable but having only 1 top 4 D on the left side cancels that.

Top 4 D equate to top 6 Fs. Neither Dano nor Armia is top 6 F. They might reach that level but 3rd line is more likely where they peak. D are worth more than wingers. I would give up both Dano and Armia before I would give up Myers unless we were getting another top 4 D somewhere.

 

[sully1410]

He is our 4D. We don't have a lot of top 4 D depth. If we lost Myers we might very well have Stu in our top 4 again. The fact that we have 3 top 4 RD creates a false impression that 1 could be expendable but having only 1 top 4 D on the left side cancels that.

Top 4 D equate to top 6 Fs. Neither Dano nor Armia is top 6 F. They might reach that level but 3rd line is more likely where they peak. D are worth more than wingers. I would give up both Dano and Armia before I would give up Myers unless we were getting another top 4 D somewhere.

Really? Dano has massive upside. Armia...sure, absolutely.

 

[HannuJ]

Really? Dano has massive upside. Armia...sure, absolutely.

Armia's point production speaks for itself. we have to get over that fantasy that he may be a top 6 player. Dano? likely an effective 3rd line player.

 

[ps241]

Armia's point production speaks for itself. we have to get over that fantasy that he may be a top 6 player. Dano? likely an effective 3rd line player.

I would say Dano flashed 2nd line talent in Columbus when given the chance. He was in his draft +2 season when he put up 21 points in 35 games there. Time will tell if he gets that opportunity here. Hey if we still play Drew Stafford in the top 6 anything is possible.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Armia's point production speaks for itself. we have to get over that fantasy that he may be a top 6 player. Dano? likely an effective 3rd line player.

You realize they have under a year of NHL experience? And you're pegging their future based on point production?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Really? Dano has massive upside. Armia...sure, absolutely.

I wouldn't call Dano's upside massive with even the most optimistic view I could muster and I like Dano. His upside is 2nd line, his probable landing spot is 3rd line. He could be a very good 3RW. That is well below the value of a top 4 D. We have lots of wingers and prospective wingers. After Morrissey we've got squat for D.

 

[sully1410]

I wouldn't call Dano's upside massive with even the most optimistic view I could muster and I like Dano. His upside is 2nd line, his probable landing spot is 3rd line. He could be a very good 3RW. That is well below the value of a top 4 D. We have lots of wingers and prospective wingers. After Morrissey we've got squat for D.

True enough.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I would say Dano flashed 2nd line talent in Columbus when given the chance. He was in his draft +2 season when he put up 21 points in 35 games there. Time will tell if he gets that opportunity here. Hey if we still play Drew Stafford in the top 6 anything is possible.

I think he showed flashes of 2nd line talent in Wpg. last year too but with Wheeler and Ehlers in the top 6 I see Dano as our 3RW going forward. He could move to the left side but he hasn't done well there in the past and then he is behind Laine and Connor. So still 3rd line. Great if he is a good 3RW who can move up.

That makes Armia the 4th RW. He has been more successful moving to the left side so maybe he plays 3LW but there will be competition there too. I'm thinking Nic Petan wins that spot once Laine and Connor move up to top 6. Again, great to have a winger who can move up and Armia can do it on either wing.

That's my assessment of the likely usage of these 2 players. So I don't see how we could justify losing Myers in order to keep either one of them and at the extreme I would let them both go rather than lose Myers (purely hypothetical since there is no threat of that). Much easier to replace them than him. In fact we could do it in house at the drop of a hat.

 

[powder88]

E - S - W
Laine - Little - Stafford
Connor - Perreault - Dano
Lowry - Burmi - Armia

I could probably come up with half a dozen possible lineups that all have Dano at 3RW.

Coming up with possible line combinations is easy, but there are none that are based on chemistry that he seemed to develop last year. What you've proposed is entirely possible, but there is no reason to believe it will work, other than the overall skill level of the players.

I'm not sure Stafford can defend well enough to go up against second line competition, and we have no idea how Laine can play D in the NHL. I think you have to start him with Little and Perreault.

My guess is that you can cook up two pretty good lines from the group of:

Connor
Dano
Armia
Lowry
Petan
Burmi
Stafford
Copp

The only combination of those that we have seen have any success is the Petan-Copp-Armia group. Everything else is guesswork at this point.

I am certainly not anti-Dano; his production pre-Chicago makes that a silly argument. But there are at least eight quality players for those bottom six spots. His inclusion in that group is far from guaranteed.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Coming up with possible line combinations is easy, but there are none that are based on chemistry that he seemed to develop last year. What you've proposed is entirely possible, but there is no reason to believe it will work, other than the overall skill level of the players.

I'm not sure Stafford can defend well enough to go up against second line competition, and we have no idea how Laine can play D in the NHL. I think you have to start him with Little and Perreault.

My guess is that you can cook up two pretty good lines from the group of:

Connor
Dano
Armia
Lowry
Petan
Burmi
Stafford
Copp

The only combination of those that we have seen have any success is the Petan-Copp-Armia group. Everything else is guesswork at this point.

I am certainly not anti-Dano; his production pre-Chicago makes that a silly argument. But there are at least eight quality players for those bottom six spots. His inclusion in that group is far from guaranteed.

Nothing in life is guaranteed but I don't have any difficulty finding a place for Dano. None, zip, zero, not any.

Stafford can't defend well enough to play anywhere on the Jets next year but we might be stuck with him on the 2nd line.