Kopitar vs J. Staal

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by FlameofTheWest, Oct 5, 2006.

  1. FlameofTheWest

    FlameofTheWest Registered User

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    Just wondering about everyones thought on this one, both guys are big Cs although Staal will likely move to a wing. Personally I think Kopitar's potential maybe only a little below Malkins. But thats just me, what are your thoughts on these two.
     
  2. DaveG

    DaveG Global Moderator

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    While Kopitar has #1 center potential (as does Staal FWIW) I don't think either's potential is at the franchise level, which is what Malkin is in terms of potential. I'm a bit higher on Kopitar since he's more proven at this point and I wanted the Canes to take him if Johnson didn't slip to us at #3.
     
  3. Vikke

    Vikke ViktorAllvin twitter

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    I'd take Kopi ten times out of ten.
     
  4. FlameofTheWest

    FlameofTheWest Registered User

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    I think with what Kopi is doing at his age he has the potential to become a franchise type C. In the mold of a Jokinen, Staal, Vinny type player. Although im souring on Vinny some.
     
  5. Big McLargehuge

    Big McLargehuge 13

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    That's really hard...I'm extremely high on both of them.

    The cop out route...I'd be happy with either...but if I had to choose I'd probably choose Staal...I think he just has a higher ceiling. Unfortunately by the time he reaches it he'll probably be the odd guy out and be with another franchise...
     
  6. Redwingsfan

    Redwingsfan Global Moderator

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    i bet you wish they took kopitar even if johnson was there now;)

    i would take kopitar. i'm not that impressed with staal yet. he's point total in the ohl las season was no good enough to earn the #2 pick. i wanted the penguins to take kessel with that pick. there is at least 10 guys i would have picked before staal in the 06 draft.
     
  7. barfy2000

    barfy2000 Registered User

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    Thank god you're not the GM of any NHL team.
     
  8. Why would YOU care if he was?
     
  9. Hockey-Freak

    Hockey-Freak Registered User

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    If it´s all about stats explain why Mathieu Roy

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=78289

    and many others went undrafted...

    Also, Staal is just 5 days away from 2007 draft eligible so if you wanna rate based on stats you actually have to take his 06/07 stats.
     
  10. King'sPawn

    King'sPawn Enjoy the chaos

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    And Kopitar was 3 weeks from being 2006 eligible... do we really need to start throwing out red herrings like this?
     
  11. Le Golie

    Le Golie ...

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    It's too bad he wasn't in the 2006 draft so everyone would have seen Staal picked ahead of him. I can't see any legitimate argument for Kopitar ahead of Backstrom, Toews or Staal. All three are better prospects. Not by a huge margin, but better nontheless.
     
  12. Redwingsfan

    Redwingsfan Global Moderator

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    58 points in 70 games in the Q:eek: he should have been picked right after crosby:sarcasm: dont get me wrong here. staal is a good player, im just not very high on him. plus i think he has belove average skating. and skating is very important in the new nhl. i would pick these guys before him just to let you know what a terrible gm i would have been:sarcasm: . EJ, toews, kessel, backstrom, brassard, okposo, mueller, frolik, little. just because pittsburgh picked him at #2 doesnt mean he is the second best player in the draft. its just pittsburghs opinion. if washington had the #2 pick they would still have taken backstrom imo. just beause i have an opinion on one player wouldnt have made me a bad gm. and i'm sure that some of you guys have the top 10 ranked exactly the way they where picked. do you think that will make you a good gm. that you have to now where a player is picked before you pick him.:dunno:. if i where the gm of pittsburgh i would have picked kessel. does that make me a bad gm. is that a wrong choise because he wasn't picked #2. i dont think so.
     
  13. Le Golie

    Le Golie ...

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    There is a difference between an opinion and an educated opinion. Do you have any concept of the time and money invested in scouting, interviewing and ranking these players? The information gathering process is a little more extensive than whatever means you or I have as hockey fans on a message board. The Penguins opinion that Staal is the second best player in the 2006 draft is a very, very educated one. Sure it may be wrong in a decade when hindsight is 20/20, but to be honest I think the fact that you believe you know more than these teams know shows you'd be a bad GM. No offence intended, but if you are serious about picking Frolik ahead of Staal, it's pretty clear how educated your opinion is compared to that of teams and scouting services that spend countless hours and millions of dollars assessing and projecting careers for these guys. I don't think anyone in the hockey world would think about taking Frolik ahead of Staal.
     
  14. naustic

    naustic Registered User

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    check out brother erics stats at the same age. jordan is going to be a force.
     
  15. Cliff O Malley

    Cliff O Malley Registered User

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    sigh....sick of the comparison just because they're brothers
     
  16. kingpest19

    kingpest19 Registered User

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    In what ways to you are they better? Not sure how much of Kopitar that you have seen play but the for being 19 the kid is holding his own against NHL competition. Hes big, got some speed, good puck skills and his vision is underrated around here. Hes not afraid to play the body when he needs to and his decent in his own end.

    Alot of the reason he fell is because of where hes from and the uncertainty of how hell develop. I think alot of people are going to be suprised at Kopitar and his level of play this year.
     
  17. inferno98

    inferno98 Registered User

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    Staal was no pushover in Pens opening night, played some PP and SH, looked good
     
  18. SteelCitySaviour

    SteelCitySaviour Registered User

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    Staal looked incredible defensively. His long reach consistently clogged up passing lanes on the forecheck, backcheck, and on the pk. I wasn't a big proponent of him at the time of the draft, but his play in preseason and after the first game show why the Pens had him rated so highly. He plays extremely soundly in all aspects of the game, and while he's not as fast as someone like, oh i dunno, Erik Staal, he definitely has the tools to be an elite player at the NHL level much sooner than the project he was predicted to be.
     
  19. Redwingsfan

    Redwingsfan Global Moderator

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    they would a year ago. things change fast at that age. do you remember what the top 10 looked like a year ago;) .it can change just as much in the next year. so you are saying that pro scouts allways makes the right calls. thats nice.:help: and i dont think i know more then any pro scout. i just have my own opinion on certain things and im sticking with it. anyway if i had the nr say 7 pick in the draft, staal wouldnt be available anyway. i saw he's first game tonight and i still dont like he's skating. he looked ok at times, but i had expected more even if it was he's first game. letang looked good. exept from when he lost he's stick and fumbled around in he's first shift. that was funny. you could tell he was nervous. and please stop with the eric compairson. he is NOT eric staal.
     
  20. King'sPawn

    King'sPawn Enjoy the chaos

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    I haven't seen Backstrom or Staal play in any games, and only seen Toews play in one. I can't agree or disagree with your assessment. I'm very high on Kopitar myself, though... but I'm not going to pitch a fit just because someone thinks less highly of him than myself.

    But I do have an issue with people bringing up one factor in the equation, without looking at the other guy and realizing it's not that much different. Staal was a few days away from being in a different draft year; Kopitar was a few weeks. I just don't think it adds any value to the discussion or assessment of the players' talents.

    Either way, I'm just curious: how much of Kopitar have you seen play?
     
  21. FlameofTheWest

    FlameofTheWest Registered User

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    I dont think people really understand how good Kopitar is. The kid is 19 and centering the 1st or 2nd line for the kings under a coach Like Crawford, that speaks volumes in it self. As far as preseasons go he completely outplayed Staal, and i dare say Staal is really only up cause of the Malkin injury, perhaps he will stay up but im not sure of that. I think regardless of the money spent on scouting etc. GMs still make bad deals, draft picks, and signings. Can anyone deny that the Islanders probably spent tons of money on scouting but yet gave away great players they already had? So I really dont think that argument holds any water, sometimes a GM just has no feel or clue for what hes doing.
     
  22. Redwingsfan

    Redwingsfan Global Moderator

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    i totally agree. even if you are a gm in the nhl it doesnt mean you allways make the right decisions.
     
  23. Ryan Van Horne

    Ryan Van Horne aka Scribe

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    Jordan Staal is so highly regarded by scouts because he is an excellent defensive player, protects the puck extremely well and is a good passer. He was not the go-to guy on his team in Peterborough last year which is why he didn't get a lot of points. (though 68 -- a ppg -- is not too shabby).

    He is on a steep development curve. I'm careful here not to evoke Eric comparisons because that turns some people off. But consider the improvement Jordan made between his first and second year of junior. He did very well for Ontario at the world under-17s and he played well as a rookie in the playoffs for Peterborough. Yes, he has some areas he needs to work on, shot, faceoffs and skating, but they are not viewed as deficiencies that cannot be improved. I am willing to be he will improve them, not because Eric did, but because Jordan has showed that he can work on areas of his game and is making rapid progression at pivotal age. Keep in mind, the kid is 6-4, 215, and he's grown quickly the last few years.

    Having said all this, I was a bit surprised to see Jordan stick with Pittsburgh this year. I think he probably earned a spot, but only because Pittsburgh is so bad. However, I think he needs to develop his game with one more year of junior and that as soon as Malkin gets back, he might go back to OHL.

    As for comparing Staal to Kopitar and Backstrom, I think I would take them in this order. Backstrom, Kopitar and Staal. Don't get me wrong, I really like Staal, but Backstrom and Kopitar are both a year older so of course they look more impressive. Staal might have caught up to them by next year when he's 18. Time will tell, but I'm not certain yet that anybody in the 2006 draft is a lock to be better than Staal. As for Phil the thrill, he's an immensely talented player, who's fun to watch. But I think Pittsburgh took the right guy -- in the long run.
     
  24. RUSqueelin*

    RUSqueelin* Registered User

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    Why does everyone get into a hissy fit when people mention Jordan and Eric in the same sentence? Jordan the tools to be as good as Eric and may be the best of the Staals. He's playing NHL games right now when Eric was still playing in Junior. Jordan will get sent back to junior this year to help him grow into his body. The kid is ouzzing potential and will be great in 3 or 4 years, just like Eric.

    And I don't know how you can compare him to Kopitar, Anze is a year older and has way more experience.
     
  25. Rahan

    Rahan Registered User

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    That's just not true.
     

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