Prospect Info: Kirill Kaprizov II: (LW) - CSKA Moscow - 135th Overall, 2015

[BagHead]

Man, I don't even believe the saga is over, but this is so Minnesota Sports. David Ortiz anyone?

 

[Minnesnota]

But Kaprizov isnt an unspecial buttercup, he's arguably the organization's #1 prospect with star potential.

I agree with you if we're talking about an average Russian prospect, but Kaprizov is anything but average. Considering, you'd think the Wild would have done everything possible to talk to him, inform him, court him, and make him feel wanted; especially when he's getting KHL money thrown at him. Like Caser said, it doesnt take much effort to send some representative to his hometown and take him to lunch.

This reeks of complete incompetence and ****-poor asset management.

The Wild organization has largely punched above it's weight class since its existence. It is no surprise to me that they managed to **** this up too.

 

[Caser]

There is a lot of criticism towards the Wild organization, but I just thought about it that way: maybe it was intentional, I mean, maybe they are thinking that in 2018 there will be no real need for Kaprizov yet, but it could be a totally different situation in 2020.

 

[Wabit]

There is a lot of criticism towards the Wild organization, but I just thought about it that way: maybe it was intentional, I mean, maybe they are thinking that in 2018 there will be no real need for Kaprizov yet, but it could be a totally different situation in 2020.

It could be true. Coyle, Foligno (I think he gets a 3 yr deal), Granny, and Spurgeon will be UFA's. JEE and Kunin will have or getting their 2nd contracts that year. Parise (if there isn't an amnesty buyout with the next CBA) will still be a $7.5m cap hit.

I'd guess the Wild would rather have Krill in the organization next off-season. But a 3 yr plan is a decent consolation prize. Let him develop on someone else's dime, then get him NHL ready as an impact player for an ELC+ bonuses.

 

[Ban Hammered]

But Kaprizov isnt an unspecial buttercup, he's arguably the organization's #1 prospect with star potential.

I agree with you if we're talking about an average Russian prospect, but Kaprizov is anything but average. Considering, you'd think the Wild would have done everything possible to talk to him, inform him, court him, and make him feel wanted; especially when he's getting KHL money thrown at him. Like Caser said, it doesnt take much effort to send some representative to his hometown and take him to lunch.

This reeks of complete incompetence and ****-poor asset management.

How is it poor asset management...when he is still our asset?

And I'm sorry...but if you have to essentially suck a prospect off to get him to sign...when you drafted them...IMO that guy is not worth it...regardless of talent. For me it comes down to do you want to be in the NHL or not. If you do...you shouldn't need to be made to feel special.

 

[Goose312]

So what would happen if say CSKA sent their GM over to the US to start talking to RFA's currently under NHL contract with 1-2 seasons left on their deals?? There would be outrage. Yet everyone thinks the Wild should have been sending people over to negotiate with a player under KHL contract? The NHL and KHL honor each other's contracts. The Wild can communicate with his agent, who he fired. If Kaprizov was expecting them to head over to Russia to sweet talk him he either chose poor NA representation or chose not to listen to them.

 

[BigT2002]

So what would happen if say CSKA sent their GM over to the US to start talking to RFA's currently under NHL contract with 1-2 seasons left on their deals?? There would be outrage. Yet everyone thinks the Wild should have been sending people over to negotiate with a player under KHL contract? The NHL and KHL honor each other's contracts. The Wild can communicate with his agent, who he fired. If Kaprizov was expecting them to head over to Russia to sweet talk him he either chose poor NA representation or chose not to listen to them.

Agreed. People would be irate if the KHL was over here talking to Mathews or McDavid and trying to offer 2x's the money they were getting in the NHL. Why should it be different just because it is the other way? If Kap wants to come to the states and play in the NHL, he will. Not everyone wants to live in the United States contrary to popular belief.

 

[Caser]

So what would happen if say CSKA sent their GM over to the US to start talking to RFA's currently under NHL contract with 1-2 seasons left on their deals?? There would be outrage. Yet everyone thinks the Wild should have been sending people over to negotiate with a player under KHL contract? The NHL and KHL honor each other's contracts. The Wild can communicate with his agent, who he fired. If Kaprizov was expecting them to head over to Russia to sweet talk him he either chose poor NA representation or chose not to listen to them.

It might surprise you, but they are doing that in some cases.

 

[Goose312]

It might surprise you, but they are doing that in some cases.

Source?

 

[DANOZ28]

im sure the wild made every effort to talk to kaprizov only to be @@@@blocked . i would think twice about drafting a russian in the future.

 

[Caser]

Source?

If you can read Russian: http://www.metallurg.ru/press/other-news/400435/. If not, there CSKA GM speaks about his summer activity: has been approaching Mikhail Grigorenko for two years now and finally signed him, also contacted Yannick Weber during the season and they almost agreed to terms. Also indirectly hinted that they are/were working to get Alexei Marchenko.

So don't worry, if Kaprizov will have troubles adapting in the NHL, his old friends from Moscow will definitely call him to ask how's he doing and remind that there will be a good contract waiting for him.

It works both ways though, as Avalanche and Andrei Mironov's negotiations during this season were a secret known to everyone, same with Maxim Mamin. Last year the best example was Nikita Zaitsev - everyone knew that he will sign with Toronto a year before he actually signed.

 

[Goose312]

If you can read Russian: http://www.metallurg.ru/press/other-news/400435/. If not, there CSKA GM speaks about his summer activity: has been approaching Mikhail Grigorenko for two years now and finally signed him, also contacted Yannick Weber during the season and they almost agreed to terms. Also indirectly hinted that they are/were working to get Alexei Marchenko.

So don't worry, if Kaprizov will have troubles adapting in the NHL, his old friends from Moscow will definitely call him to ask how's he doing and remind that there will be a good contract waiting for him.

So players on expired contracts? Nothing stopping the KHL from talking with them. Kaprizov has never been on an expired contract.

It works both ways though, as Avalanche and Andrei Mironov's negotiations during this season were a secret known to everyone, same with Maxim Mamin. Last year the best example was Nikita Zaitsev - everyone knew that he will sign with Toronto a year before he actually signed.

That's all fan theory. There are many things fans "know" but that doesn't mean there's even a grain of truth to them. Just because a player chooses to leave the KHL once their contract is up for the NHL doesn't mean they were negotiating the entire time. There's also a difference between talking to the player's agent and speaking to the player directly. Nothing is stopping a team from telling a player's agent they are interested.

 

[Spurgeon]

Fletcher should have personally flown out there to talk to Kaprizov. Hell, fly him over here for a tour of the facility. Surely that would have been allowed, he's a prospect of ours. Do other European prospects that are under contract with another team get to communicate with their NHL counterpart? I would assume so.

Really poor asset management by Fletcher. Our window is probably the biggest it's going to be in the Suter-Parise era. Having Kap over here next year on the last year of Staal's sweetheart deal would have been great. Our top 6 centers are 33+, we don't know if we have reasonable replacements yet.

It'll be nice not having to pay Kaprizov a big pay raise 3 years from now, but that's one of the few silver linings from this. Fletcher needs to be more proactive in making Kap feel like he's wanted and needed here because he sure as hell is.

 

[Goose312]

Fletcher should have personally flown out there to talk to Kaprizov. Hell, fly him over here for a tour of the facility. Surely that would have been allowed, he's a prospect of ours. Do other European prospects that are under contract with another team get to communicate with their NHL counterpart? I would assume so.

The IIHF adheres to the the CBA so there's a transfer agreement between the NHL and European leagues. European leagues agree to make their contracts secondary to the NHL. The KHL is separate from the IIHF and doesn't adhere to the CBA so there is no transfer agreement.

 

[Caser]

So players on expired contracts? Nothing stopping the KHL from talking with them. Kaprizov has never been on an expired contract.

Marchenko's and Weber's contracts weren't expired, Grigorenko's might be, I can't remember it now.

That's all fan theory. There are many things fans "know" but that doesn't mean there's even a grain of truth to them. Just because a player chooses to leave the KHL once their contract is up for the NHL doesn't mean they were negotiating the entire time. There's also a difference between talking to the player's agent and speaking to the player directly. Nothing is stopping a team from telling a player's agent they are interested.

Zaitsev visiting Toronto and talking to Shanahan in summer 2015 was pretty well documented though.

 

[Caser]

The IIHF adheres to the the CBA so there's a transfer agreement between the NHL and European leagues. European leagues agree to make their contracts secondary to the NHL. The KHL is separate from the IIHF and doesn't adhere to the CBA so there is no transfer agreement.

Didn't exactly understand what you mean, unless there are some recent news, KHL is under the IIHF jurisdiction. Transfer agreement isn't signed by the IIHF, btw, it is signed by national federations.

 

[Ban Hammered]

Fletcher should have personally flown out there to talk to Kaprizov. Hell, fly him over here for a tour of the facility. Surely that would have been allowed, he's a prospect of ours. Do other European prospects that are under contract with another team get to communicate with their NHL counterpart? I would assume so.

Really poor asset management by Fletcher. Our window is probably the biggest it's going to be in the Suter-Parise era. Having Kap over here next year on the last year of Staal's sweetheart deal would have been great. Our top 6 centers are 33+, we don't know if we have reasonable replacements yet.

It'll be nice not having to pay Kaprizov a big pay raise 3 years from now, but that's one of the few silver linings from this. Fletcher needs to be more proactive in making Kap feel like he's wanted and needed here because he sure as hell is.

Oh good grief. The overhyping of this guy is getting out of hand. He could just as easily flop at the NHL level. Plenty of guys have had great WJC's and flopped and the while he has put up good numbers in the KHL, it is not and will never be on the NHL's level (when Brandon Bochenski is one of your league's best scorers...I rest my case).
Also, from everything that has been reported to us...when the Wild have tried to contact this guy in person, they have not been allowed to. It's possible that was only at the WJC, but we do not know that for sure. We don't know what any of the guys based in Europe have done or not done. Basically, there is a lot of jumping to conclusions based on little info. But for me...when we have not spoken to him at all in person in 2 years...something is going on there and it is not all of Fletcher or the Wild for that not happening. It takes two to tango. It's also way easier said than done to just jet off to Russia for Fletcher. Off season has been a bit packed in with the draft, expansion and a couple fairly big deals to try and get worked out.
Also...and I ask this again...how is the poor asset management when he is still the Wild's asset? If he wants to come here, he will but IMO...good WJC and KHL numbers do not mean that he should be treated any differently from any other "top prospect." For me, if the allure of playing against the best players in the world, in the top league in the world (especially when your team has said publicly that you will be on the big club and not in the minors) is so little of an incentive that you feel the need to be pursued like some Hollywood startlet, it makes me question how badly you really want to play there.
Kid has talent, but until he proves it here and is actually in a Wild sweater, it means nothing and it not something Fletcher should be getting flak for.

 

[Spurgeon]

Oh good grief. The overhyping of this guy is getting out of hand. He could just as easily flop at the NHL level. Plenty of guys have had great WJC's and flopped and the while he has put up good numbers in the KHL, it is not and will never be on the NHL's level (when Brandon Bochenski is one of your league's best scorers...I rest my case).
Also, from everything that has been reported to us...when the Wild have tried to contact this guy in person, they have not been allowed to. It's possible that was only at the WJC, but we do not know that for sure. We don't know what any of the guys based in Europe have done or not done. Basically, there is a lot of jumping to conclusions based on little info. But for me...when we have not spoken to him at all in person in 2 years...something is going on there and it is not all of Fletcher or the Wild for that not happening. It takes two to tango. It's also way easier said than done to just jet off to Russia for Fletcher. Off season has been a bit packed in with the draft, expansion and a couple fairly big deals to try and get worked out.
Also...and I ask this again...how is the poor asset management when he is still the Wild's asset? If he wants to come here, he will but IMO...good WJC and KHL numbers do not mean that he should be treated any differently from any other "top prospect." For me, if the allure of playing against the best players in the world, in the top league in the world (especially when your team has said publicly that you will be on the big club and not in the minors) is so little of an incentive that you feel the need to be pursued like some Hollywood startlet, it makes me question how badly you really want to play there.
Kid has talent, but until he proves it here and is actually in a Wild sweater, it means nothing and it not something Fletcher should be getting flak for.

This guy is putting up record numbers in Russia for a U20 player, had the best WJC performance this year, and is consistently rated as a top 10 prospect. No one is over hyping this player, he's putting up the numbers to back everything. Since the Wild have been completely silent in regards to Kaprizov and the only news we have of them ever reaching out to him was at the WJC where players weren't allowed to be in contact with their NHL teams, I have to go off what Kaprizov has said himself. What he has said has been very indictive of poor asset management by Fletcher. Yes, we still have him, but we really could have used him next year. Everyone is overlooking this center problem that is going to hit us very soon. The next 3 seasons are when I think we're going to have our best opportunity and that is at a time when we're not going to be able to have our best winger prospect in our hands. That is bad asset management, plain and simple. I think Russia has strong-armed Kap over the Olympics, but I feel like Fletcher has not done what he should have done to make him more comfortable with coming over. This is a humongous step for a 20 year old from another country that doesn't speak any English and I don't think we did much to alleviate any anxiety.

I'm really hoping Russo is right about Kaprizov's rights being indefinitely in our hands. He's admitted himself he's not very well-versed in our CBA in regards to Russian prospects. What I heard about that Islanders prospect potentially becoming a UFA has me very concerned. If we lose Kap for nothing, Fletcher will have a lot of blame.

 

[Ban Hammered]

This guy is putting up record numbers in Russia for a U20 player, had the best WJC performance this year, and is consistently rated as a top 10 prospect. No one is over hyping this player, he's putting up the numbers to back everything. Since the Wild have been completely silent in regards to Kaprizov and the only news we have of them ever reaching out to him was at the WJC where players weren't allowed to be in contact with their NHL teams, I have to go off what Kaprizov has said himself. What he has said has been very indictive of poor asset management by Fletcher. Yes, we still have him, but we really could have used him next year. Everyone is overlooking this center problem that is going to hit us very soon. The next 3 seasons are when I think we're going to have our best opportunity and that is at a time when we're not going to be able to have our best winger prospect in our hands. That is bad asset management, plain and simple. I think Russia has strong-armed Kap over the Olympics, but I feel like Fletcher has not done what he should have done to make him more comfortable with coming over. This is a humongous step for a 20 year old from another country that doesn't speak any English and I don't think we did much to alleviate any anxiety.

I'm really hoping Russo is right about Kaprizov's rights being indefinitely in our hands. He's admitted himself he's not very well-versed in our CBA in regards to Russian prospects. What I heard about that Islanders prospect potentially becoming a UFA has me very concerned. If we lose Kap for nothing, Fletcher will have a lot of blame.

Again, his numbers mean zero until he does it in the NHL. How many guys have torn up lower leagues or torn up the WJC and done zilch at the NHL level? Plenty of them. (See guys like KHL scoring stud Brandon Bochenski, Jordan Schroeder, Nikita Filatov etc). He is a prospect, and a good looking so far but still just a prospect.
Also, taking one sentence from Kaprizov and extrapolating what you are about the Wild's level of interest in him is ridiculous. Again, how about Russo saying that the Wild have not been allowed to talk to him when they have tried over the past two years? Does that now mean nothing because Kaprizov says there "wasn't special interest" from the Wild?
You are looking at what you feel is a need on this team and going all in with it and blaming Fletcher for not getting it done. Again, it takes two to tango. If Kaprizov really wanted to be here, it would get done. From my end, it sure sounds like he doesn't want to be here that bad.

 

[Spurgeon]

Again, his numbers mean zero until he does it in the NHL. How many guys have torn up lower leagues or torn up the WJC and done zilch at the NHL level? Plenty of them. (See guys like KHL scoring stud Brandon Bochenski, Jordan Schroeder, Nikita Filatov etc). He is a prospect, and a good looking so far but still just a prospect.
Also, taking one sentence from Kaprizov and extrapolating what you are about the Wild's level of interest in him is ridiculous. Again, how about Russo saying that the Wild have not been allowed to talk to him when they have tried over the past two years? Does that now mean nothing because Kaprizov says there "wasn't special interest" from the Wild?
You are looking at what you feel is a need on this team and going all in with it and blaming Fletcher for not getting it done. Again, it takes two to tango. If Kaprizov really wanted to be here, it would get done. From my end, it sure sounds like he doesn't want to be here that bad.

His numbers do not mean absolutely nothing and it's ridiculous to assert so. I don't know if you're just trying to cope with the fact that we won't be seeing him anytime soon, but this is a big loss. This isn't Jordan Schroeder, this is a top 10 prospect.

It does take two to tango and it doesn't sound like the Wild had any urgency to tango. Fletcher and the Wild have been completely silent on this situation. Why? Maybe cause they realize they should have and definitely could have done more.

 

[Nharris31]

Don't the Wild still have his rights after his contract ends?

 

[Ban Hammered]

His numbers do not mean absolutely nothing and it's ridiculous to assert so. I don't know if you're just trying to cope with the fact that we won't be seeing him anytime soon, but this is a big loss. This isn't Jordan Schroeder, this is a top 10 prospect.

It does take two to tango and it doesn't sound like the Wild had any urgency to tango. Fletcher and the Wild have been completely silent on this situation. Why? Maybe cause they realize they should have and definitely could have done more.

They mean nothing and I'm not coping with anything. Until you actually play and do something in the NHL...I could give a crap what the numbers say. You have to do it in the NHL for me to care....it's just potential otherwise and that's not worth any hand wringing.
As for why they are silent...you are speculating just as anyone else would be. Maybe they just don't see a guy who hasn't played a single NHL game as such a "big loss" yet.

 

[TaLoN]

His numbers do not mean absolutely nothing and it's ridiculous to assert so. I don't know if you're just trying to cope with the fact that we won't be seeing him anytime soon, but this is a big loss. This isn't Jordan Schroeder, this is a top 10 prospect.

It does take two to tango and it doesn't sound like the Wild had any urgency to tango. Fletcher and the Wild have been completely silent on this situation. Why? Maybe cause they realize they should have and definitely could have done more.

The only thing his KHL numbers mean, is he is a very promising prospect that will LIKEY succeed when he makes the jump... nothing more, nothing less.

He could still very well bust out when he makes the NHL jump.

 

[Maylo]

So apparently Kaprizov changed his agent since his was traded to CSKA, now it's Dan Milstein (Panarin and Kucherov agent). He'll represent him in both leagues NHL/KHL.

 

[Minnesota]

Don't the Wild still have his rights after his contract ends?

Yes, Minnesota holds his right indefinitely.