Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

[frontsfan67]

Pretty off topic but anyone see Gavin Mckenna who’s draft year is in 2026 has 40pts in his last 18 games? Absolutely unreal. Bedards cousin btw

 

[ktownfan]

con boys, Peterbrough?? We are just so unpredictable. Should have been a for sure win, but that is the thing with the petes, they will try and strangle you defensively and their goalie is always a problem. Uens fighting a 16 year old? And not really winning.

 

[Truthking]

I’d like to know what this teams record would’ve been with Caputi and all the additions they’ve made since then. I’m glad they traded for overagers so they could go on this big run.

 

[frontsfan67]

I’d like to know what this teams record would’ve been with Caputi and all the additions they’ve made since then. I’m glad they traded for overagers so they could go on this big run.

I’ve been thinking that since day 1. Not to compare coaches however atleast with Caputi at the start of the year they didn’t have some of their stars like ludwinski and burns back right away. With Mann we have made all these trades to be competitive and yet here we are as a team that is 1 game below 0.500 with 5 weeks to go in the regular season. I’m not saying we have to fire Mann after this season however if they don’t start off a lot better next year they need to consider it lol. No reason with all the talent on the team we should be in 7th place.

With game today and loss against missisauga and ivankovic today the fronts are 0-3 against ivankovic with him having a 0.934 sv% across 3 games. Unreal- the kid is 16 years old! Don’t know how he does so good against us and his numbers against some other teams really tear the sv% down.

Fronts got outplayed today- and vaccari although the save percentage may not say much kept them in the game start to finish. Ivankovic was just better partly because so was missisauga. Both teams, and both goalies will be back next year. Kingston needs to find a way to solve ivankovic and missisauga.

 

[OMG67]

I’ve been thinking that since day 1. Not to compare coaches however atleast with Caputi at the start of the year they didn’t have some of their stars like ludwinski and burns back right away. With Mann we have made all these trades to be competitive and yet here we are as a team that is 1 game below 0.500 with 5 weeks to go in the regular season. I’m not saying we have to fire Mann after this season however if they don’t start off a lot better next year they need to consider it lol. No reason with all the talent on the team we should be in 7th place.

With game today and loss against missisauga and ivankovic today the fronts are 0-3 against ivankovic with him having a 0.934 sv% across 3 games. Unreal- the kid is 16 years old! Don’t know how he does so good against us and his numbers against some other teams really tear the sv% down.

Fronts got outplayed today- and vaccari although the save percentage may not say much kept them in the game start to finish. Ivankovic was just better partly because so was missisauga. Both teams, and both goalies will be back next year. Kingston needs to find a way to solve ivankovic and missisauga.

Although some suggest my assessment that Mann needs a full offseason and a training camp plus a pre-season to finalize the transition from the system they had previously and the system they have now, I think I am bang on with that assessment. The parts by themselves are fine. But, as a unit, it isn’t ideal. Mann needs an opportunity to reconfigure the roster a bit and make the adjustments required to take best advantage of the system he wants played. He will also benefit from the training camp and an opportunity to instil a new culture from day one of the season.

I think you need to be patient and allow him the required time and opportunity to build the franchise in a professional way.

 

[beastintheeast]

Although some suggest my assessment that Mann needs a full offseason and a training camp plus a pre-season to finalize the transition from the system they had previously and the system they have now, I think I am bang on with that assessment. The parts by themselves are fine. But, as a unit, it isn’t ideal. Mann needs an opportunity to reconfigure the roster a bit and make the adjustments required to take best advantage of the system he wants played. He will also benefit from the training camp and an opportunity to instil a new culture from day one of the season.

I think you need to be patient and allow him the required time and opportunity to build the franchise in a professional way.

The challenge for Mann is to find the players who want to play his system and those who are wasting his time. I think that Caputi and scouting had control over new players. I think this will be Mann's draft and that you will see a difference.

The other area that Mann had no control of was the net. I am not sure what deal Cooper had with Salajko Sr for jr. There had to be something or he would not have lasted this long on any other team.

Thibodeau is another choice that I am not sure Mann would have made. Yes, he has skill, but there is too much dad baggage.

Mann knows that this year, the pros will give him a bye, but next year, he will be expected to show what he can do. The same can also be said about Cooper.

Ludwinski is going to bite Cooper in the assets he should have been moved.

Is Kingston finishing 7th enough to show they are better?

It is going to be an interesting off season for sure in Kington.

 

[beastintheeast]

I’ve been thinking that since day 1. Not to compare coaches however atleast with Caputi at the start of the year they didn’t have some of their stars like ludwinski and burns back right away. With Mann we have made all these trades to be competitive and yet here we are as a team that is 1 game below 0.500 with 5 weeks to go in the regular season. I’m not saying we have to fire Mann after this season however if they don’t start off a lot better next year they need to consider it lol. No reason with all the talent on the team we should be in 7th place.

With game today and loss against missisauga and ivankovic today the fronts are 0-3 against ivankovic with him having a 0.934 sv% across 3 games. Unreal- the kid is 16 years old! Don’t know how he does so good against us and his numbers against some other teams really tear the sv% down.

Fronts got outplayed today- and vaccari although the save percentage may not say much kept them in the game start to finish. Ivankovic was just better partly because so was missisauga. Both teams, and both goalies will be back next year. Kingston needs to find a way to solve ivankovic and missisauga.

Kingston will not have the same goalies next year, or if they do, they are going to need a new GM. JJ is not ready for Prime Time, even as a backup. Vaccari needs a goalie that can play at least half the games.

The team needs to concentrate on finding a defensive D with size. Finishing near the bottom may help that.

 

[Truthking]

Although some suggest my assessment that Mann needs a full offseason and a training camp plus a pre-season to finalize the transition from the system they had previously and the system they have now, I think I am bang on with that assessment. The parts by themselves are fine. But, as a unit, it isn’t ideal. Mann needs an opportunity to reconfigure the roster a bit and make the adjustments required to take best advantage of the system he wants played. He will also benefit from the training camp and an opportunity to instil a new culture from day one of the season.

I think you need to be patient and allow him the required time and opportunity to build the franchise in a professional way.

My thought is the team just isn’t very good. And may be full of coach killers. I didn’t like that Caputi had to wear the bad start all by himself, and now Mann is getting some stink on him. When does it become a player/gm issue?

 

[PuckLucker]

I’ve been thinking that since day 1. Not to compare coaches however atleast with Caputi at the start of the year they didn’t have some of their stars like ludwinski and burns back right away. With Mann we have made all these trades to be competitive and yet here we are as a team that is 1 game below 0.500 with 5 weeks to go in the regular season. I’m not saying we have to fire Mann after this season however if they don’t start off a lot better next year they need to consider it lol. No reason with all the talent on the team we should be in 7th place.

With game today and loss against missisauga and ivankovic today the fronts are 0-3 against ivankovic with him having a 0.934 sv% across 3 games. Unreal- the kid is 16 years old! Don’t know how he does so good against us and his numbers against some other teams really tear the sv% down.

Fronts got outplayed today- and vaccari although the save percentage may not say much kept them in the game start to finish. Ivankovic was just better partly because so was missisauga. Both teams, and both goalies will be back next year. Kingston needs to find a way to solve ivankovic and missisauga.

You aren't the only one who evaluates the Fronts bench staff and are left thinking hmmm

I wouldn't use the Steelheads as a team to evaluate where Kingston sits as a team, Missi has swept the Fronts 2 years in row

 

[beastintheeast]

My thought is the team just isn’t very good. And may be full of coach killers. I didn’t like that Caputi had to wear the bad start all by himself, and now Mann is getting some stink on him. When does it become a player/gm issue?

With this team, it has always been a player/owner/GM thing.

The challenge is the coach and GM being on the same page. One of the things that the old guard of coach/GM has an advantage is if the coach has a problem with a player, all he has to do is go look in the mirror and tell himself that X needs a trade.

Coach killers are hard to get rid of during the season. Other teams don't want the headache.

I am sure there will be players who will be told that if they do not change their attitude, they may find themselves without a position on the team.

I've seen it work both ways. All the older Fronts fans will remember Bobby Hughes and his clicque. Hughes got benched by Cassidy and Springer, and Mav pulled him aside and told him that he had to play him no matter what.

On the other side, Killer was having a problem with the team and a certain player in practice and was not listening to him. Practice ended for the player after the killer slapped a shot at him and told him to get off the ice. The GM then traded him to Newmarket.

Watch what they draft in the Euro and the OHL drafts. also any trades. It may give you some insight.

You aren't the only one who evaluates the Fronts bench staff and are left thinking hmmm

I wouldn't use the Steelheads as a team to evaluate where Kingston sits as a team, Missi has swept the Fronts 2 years in row

Just like the players there may be contracts that have to be honoured. You may see some small changes as the summer goes on.

 

[OMG67]

My thought is the team just isn’t very good. And may be full of coach killers. I didn’t like that Caputi had to wear the bad start all by himself, and now Mann is getting some stink on him. When does it become a player/gm issue?

That is why I say you often need an offseason to shuffle the deck. I cannot say whether what you say is true. I can. Only go on what I’ve seen in the past when a poor organization runs through many years of futility and then finally hires a quality coach And puts in a solid group of people behind the team. It takes a full season to weed out the players you dont’ want and start replacing them with players you can work with.

this is one of the biggest reasons why Iwas such a strong proponent of trading Ludwinski. It was an opportunity to get your hands on a player and picks to help make the transition easier. Adding Dubois was a strong move but it would have been stronger had they moved out the current leadership. Dubois would have more of a leadership impact had he not been held back by current leadership.

 

[Truthking]

That is why I say you often need an offseason to shuffle the deck. I cannot say whether what you say is true. I can. Only go on what I’ve seen in the past when a poor organization runs through many years of futility and then finally hires a quality coach And puts in a solid group of people behind the team. It takes a full season to weed out the players you dont’ want and start replacing them with players you can work with.

this is one of the biggest reasons why Iwas such a strong proponent of trading Ludwinski. It was an opportunity to get your hands on a player and picks to help make the transition easier. Adding Dubois was a strong move but it would have been stronger had they moved out the current leadership. Dubois would have more of a leadership impact had he not been held back by current leadership.

I agree with the premise of what you’re saying. But the idea of them doing that in the lead up to a season in which they’re supposed to be a title contender doesn’t add up. Either the mix sucks and you need to start again or they’re on the path to success next year. If they’re on the success path then .500 hockey is not going to cut it.

 

[OMG67]

I agree with the premise of what you’re saying. But the idea of them doing that in the lead up to a season in which they’re supposed to be a title contender doesn’t add up. Either the mix sucks and you need to start again or they’re on the path to success next year. If they’re on the success path then .500 hockey is not going to cut it.

Well, if we are being 100% real, next season isn’t a Title Contender year. I think Mississauga and Brantford are a step ahead and have a bank of tradable assets that separates them from Kingston.

Next year should be the first true leap forward with a new direction. I’m sure there are still some culture changes including off ice discipline and means of conduct that likely will still require some getting used to. Typically you need to develop a leadership structure internally that carries over year by year and gets passed on. That doesn’t happen in one season but it can happen to the point where the team is more consistently competitive and more pleasing to watch.

Most teams will go through stages where they are weak but the fans understand those dips and if they trust in the management structure to lead them through it them it goes a long way. That also extends to players and families as well as recruits.

If Mann is as quality as we all feel combined with full support from ownership, then it is more likely the franchise will turn around and be more of a model franchise than an also-ran. Kingston has a great rink, good population base and a history that can be built on. All it needs is a fanbase that believes And a management/coaching group that can fulfil the needs.

 

[frontsfan67]

You aren't the only one who evaluates the Fronts bench staff and are left thinking hmmm

I wouldn't use the Steelheads as a team to evaluate where Kingston sits as a team, Missi has swept the Fronts 2 years in row

not just Mississauga. im talking about the year as a whole it seems like a big let down. Quick reminder they bid for the m cup last year and made videos saying they don't just want to win the bid, they want to win the cup too. factor in injuries and suspensions and I still don't understand how it is possible they are in 7th right now. Really underperforming.

Ludwinski is going to bite Cooper in the assets he should have been moved.

really mad they didn't trade him, seems like such a let down and its really going to bite them next year when brampton and brantford load up.

Is Kingston finishing 7th enough to show they are better?

helllll no. they should be fighting for home ice at the very least.

It is going to be an interesting off season for sure in Kington.

Absolutely. Wouldn’t be too surprised to see a regular or two flipped for upgrades and then whatever they do in the draft

 

[frontsfan67]

Well, if we are being 100% real, next season isn’t a Title Contender year. I think Mississauga and Brantford are a step ahead and have a bank of tradable assets that separates them from Kingston.

Next year should be the first true leap forward with a new direction. I’m sure there are still some culture changes including off ice discipline and means of conduct that likely will still require some getting used to. Typically you need to develop a leadership structure internally that carries over year by year and gets passed on. That doesn’t happen in one season but it can happen to the point where the team is more consistently competitive and more pleasing to watch.

Most teams will go through stages where they are weak but the fans understand those dips and if they trust in the management structure to lead them through it them it goes a long way. That also extends to players and families as well as recruits.

If Mann is as quality as we all feel combined with full support from ownership, then it is more likely the franchise will turn around and be more of a model franchise than an also-ran. Kingston has a great rink, good population base and a history that can be built on. All it needs is a fanbase that believes And a management/coaching group that can fulfil the needs.

I honestly wonder if next year they trade guys like miedema and Burns and go for it in 2026. Wouldn’t be a popular decision probably but they’d get some good draft picks for them and could build around battaglia, Hopkins, frasca, Williamson, weir and velliaris then

I’d like our odds more in 2026 than next year. Next year I feel like they’re going to disappoint in playoffs playing either brantford/brampton

 

[OMG67]

I honestly wonder if next year they trade guys like miedema and Burns and go for it in 2026. Wouldn’t be a popular decision probably but they’d get some good draft picks for them and could build around battaglia, Hopkins, frasca, Williamson, weir and velliaris then

I’d like our odds more in 2026 than next year. Next year I feel like they’re going to disappoint in playoffs playing either brantford/brampton

My prediction has Mississauga well ahead of the pack as they head into he deadline. Maybe Brantford keeps pace. Both have tons of trade assets. If I am correct, then it does look more plausible that Kingston is a seller.

Ottawa will be good next year too but I see them as a seller as well. I think there are a lot of similarities between Kingston and Ottawa next year. I see both being pretty good but I don’t think either will be able to keep pace. I think if they both decided to make a couple reasonable deadline moves, they could approach 85-90 points but I think the Conference leader will be >105 points. It will be hard for either to justify adding at the deadline Even though both will be decent.

 

[beastintheeast]

My prediction has Mississauga well ahead of the pack as they head into he deadline. Maybe Brantford keeps pace. Both have tons of trade assets. If I am correct, then it does look more plausible that Kingston is a seller.

Ottawa will be good next year too but I see them as a seller as well. I think there are a lot of similarities between Kingston and Ottawa next year. I see both being pretty good but I don’t think either will be able to keep pace. I think if they both decided to make a couple reasonable deadline moves, they could approach 85-90 points but I think the Conference leader will be >105 points. It will be hard for either to justify adding at the deadline Even though both will be decent.

The challenge for Kingston is if they can find a goalie and draft and develop some defence.

I agree that Ludwinski should have been traded but what we forget is that there had to be a reasonable offer for Cooper to make the trade. That we may never know.

Miedma either will be back with a chip on his shoulder playing hard or will have given up on hockey. He is going to go to the Sabres rookie camp and be told what he needs to work on and what he needs to improve if he wants a contract or the Sabres may just let him go.

Same thing with Burns. I am sure St L. will let him know what they think and remind him that this is his last chance to get a contract.

 

[OMG67]

The challenge for Kingston is if they can find a goalie and draft and develop some defence.

I agree that Ludwinski should have been traded but what we forget is that there had to be a reasonable offer for Cooper to make the trade. That we may never know.

Miedma either will be back with a chip on his shoulder playing hard or will have given up on hockey. He is going to go to the Sabres rookie camp and be told what he needs to work on and what he needs to improve if he wants a contract or the Sabres may just let him go.

Same thing with Burns. I am sure St L. will let him know what they think and remind him that this is his last chance to get a contract.

Ludwinski is one of the premier players in the league. Teams were throwing around 1st rounders for secondary players on Peterborough. You can bet if he made Ludwinski available, there would have been a handful of really good offers.

Imagine what the 67’s would look like right now had they added Ludwinski, Kressler, and Mayer? Then plucked Sobolev for a cheap OA/Import upgrade? Ouch. Woulda been crazy.

I’m just not sure Ottawa would have had the right mix of players though. If anyone were dangling their 1st rounder, Ottawa woulda been outta the running there.

 

[dirty12]

My prediction has Mississauga well ahead of the pack as they head into he deadline. Maybe Brantford keeps pace. Both have tons of trade assets. If I am correct, then it does look more plausible that Kingston is a seller.

Ottawa will be good next year too but I see them as a seller as well. I think there are a lot of similarities between Kingston and Ottawa next year. I see both being pretty good but I don’t think either will be able to keep pace. I think if they both decided to make a couple reasonable deadline moves, they could approach 85-90 points but I think the Conference leader will be >105 points. It will be hard for either to justify adding at the deadline Even though both will be decent.

The Steelheads intend to play the long game with their excellent 2006 born core. They may do nothing significant prior to the deadline.
If aggressive early, Kingston could very well be the team to catch at the next deadline. The team has 7-2005 born selected within four rounds and an import, and a few very good 2006-07; and the picks to add DeAngelis/VanVliet and McCoy/Collins or Mathurin and Leblanc-Leblanc or any combination of OAs they deem fit as the pre-season comes to an end.

 

[leafs4life94]

The Steelheads intend to play the long game with their excellent 2006 born core. They may do nothing significant prior to the deadline.
If aggressive early, Kingston could very well be the team to catch at the next deadline. The team has 7-2005 born selected within four rounds and an import, and a few very good 2006-07; and the picks to add DeAngelis/VanVliet and McCoy/Collins or Mathurin and Leblanc-Leblanc or any combination of OAs they deem fit as the pre-season comes to an end.

The only risk for the Steelheads with that is I can totally see Martone stepping into the NHL right away and although they've got lots of talent - without Martone they fall a looooot.

 

[OMG67]

The only risk for the Steelheads with that is I can totally see Martone stepping into the NHL right away and although they've got lots of talent - without Martone they fall a looooot.

I second this.

Additionally, they will have two or three OA spots available depending on what they do with Leskovar.

They have so many 2nds that they could go with three OAs as acquisitions and make their run just with that. It wouldn’t upset anything. They will likely need defence so I could see them add two D-Men and keep Leskovar.

I still feel they have the inside track on Misa though.

 

[dirty12]

The only risk for the Steelheads with that is I can totally see Martone stepping into the NHL right away and although they've got lots of talent - without Martone they fall a looooot.

There is often an early graduating player, though often (Johnston, Poitras) not the one expected the year prior.
This year which of Cowan, Bonk, Musty, Rehkopf, Ritchie, Terrance have not closed the gap on Barlow? The steelheads have ridden Martone as hard, I think harder than the attack rode Barlow; so, don’t play the injury card.

 

[OMG67]

There is often an early graduating player, though often (Johnston, Poitras) not the one expected the year prior.
This year which of Cowan, Bonk, Musty, Rehkopf, Ritchie, Terrance have not closed the gap on Barlow? The steelheads have ridden Martone as hard, I think harder than the attack rode Barlow; so, don’t play the injury card.

Graduations early has more to do with the depth chart and quality of the team drafting. Of course, there are always the obvious ones in the top 3 or so but outside that, it really comes down to positional weakness and overall weakness of the drafting team.

With respect to Martone, I’d pay closer attention to the NHL team he goes to. Take a look at their track record of pulling Juniors early. Tale a look at their depth chart and overall prospect pool. That should inform the decison.

 

[frontsfan67]

I second this.

Additionally, they will have two or three OA spots available depending on what they do with Leskovar.

They have so many 2nds that they could go with three OAs as acquisitions and make their run just with that. It wouldn’t upset anything. They will likely need defence so I could see them add two D-Men and keep Leskovar.

I still feel they have the inside track on Misa though.

Omg yes if Misa requests for a trade out they very well may trade him there. I think it would be the location that makes the most sense with his brother. But a few things to consider 1# martone is on that team and is challenging him for best player out of the OHL next year for the draft And #2 the amount of revenue Saginaw will generate with Misas draft year. #3 they very well could go and do another year where they go for it. It would leave them really stranded for the following year but with a lot of the guys that will be back they’ll still be a force to be reckoned with- look at Winnipeg before they moved to Wenatchee in the whl. They went for it 3 years in a row and just got back almost all their picks now trading savoie and geekie

 

[OMG67]

Omg yes if Misa requests for a trade out they very well may trade him there. I think it would be the location that makes the most sense with his brother. But a few things to consider 1# martone is on that team and is challenging him for best player out of the OHL next year for the draft And #2 the amount of revenue Saginaw will generate with Misas draft year. #3 they very well could go and do another year where they go for it. It would leave them really stranded for the following year but with a lot of the guys that will be back they’ll still be a force to be reckoned with- look at Winnipeg before they moved to Wenatchee in the whl. They went for it 3 years in a row and just got back almost all their picks now trading savoie and geekie

Saginaw has no decent picks. They will only have their 2028 picks. They Graduate:

Haight
Sapovaliv
Beck
Bloom
Christopoulos
Hache
Donovan
Dionicio

That is a lot to graduate. The $$$ given up for Misa will be translated in the package required to acquire him. The type of return Saginaw would get considering that is huge.

Saginaw would be competitive but they wouldn’t be a contender. Trading Misa and Parekh would set them up for another future run. They may wait and trade Parekh the following year but I think it is almost a must to at least trade Misa.

A Misa package would include the 1st rounder in 2024, three 2nds, and three 3rds plus likely another young player of decent value. I cannot see it being less than that. There is a possibility he does return for another season D+1 so maybe there is even a few conditional picks tossed in for good measure.