You do realize that Buffalo is 600 km away from New York City? But hey, at least it's in the same state.
KHL business aspects discussion
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You do realize that Buffalo is 600 km away from New York City? But hey, at least it's in the same state.
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Registered User
600 kms in America or in Russia don't have the same impact of 600 kms in European countries. There are a lot of hockey places in the state of New York, especially on the North, where Buffalo lies, not to count the proximity with the Canadian border.
Alessandro Seren Rosso
Registered User
Well, considering Ducks and Preds as "small-market" teams in the USA is one thing, but we need to admit that here in Europe we could only dream about having markets that are one quarter of such "small" markets.
For the rests, you said yourself: measure have been taken, now let's see if they work. I think that most of the stuff going on is reasonable.
It's so far away that it doesn't benefit in any way from the masses of NYC. Upstate New York is so sparsely populated that Buffalo is undoubtedly a small market, even if there's more hockey culture and interest there than in most places.
Although politics may have been the catalyst to bring Kunlun in. Chinese gas company wanted rights to work in Russia so Putin said ok well we want a Chinese team and to help with the Winter olympics... I can see Kunlun becoming a success. Sure they wil have the stigma of 'they have no chinese players!' for a while but who cares, slowly and surely they will develop their talent
Buffalo gets no benefit from being in New York State or near the Canadian border. It is a small market and the population in that part of the state is spread out. If anything, it is a detriment as many old-time hockey fans were likely Leafs, Canadiens, or Rangers fans when Buffalo entered the league. Couple that with the fact that "upstate" people hate NYC and vice versa. Two completely different cultures.
The other "external sources" are many, and depend on the sport and the club, but include financial compensation for outgoing players, income from renting out the stadium for other events, appearance money in preseason tournaments, bank loans..."
Nashville is in the Stanley Cup Final, and they are probably the smallest market team in the NHL. The difference is that in the NHL, they have a highly structured player draft system in which the last go first (although the lottery system modifies that a little). If you finish last place in the previous season, you automatically are entitled to draft the best new players available. That system prevents teams from becoming permanent bottom-feeders. Edmonton is a perfect example of that.
Also, the NHL has revenue-sharing methods that make it easier for teams that aren't doing well to survive. I don't understand the KHL's seeming policy of recruiting new franchises, then kicking them out 4 years later because they couldn't get up to speed fast enough. It just conveys a look of weakness and fragmentation for the league.
Nino33
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In my lifetime Edmonton/Calgary have won 5 Stanley Cups, small market Ottawa was just within one game of the Stanley Cup Final and small market Nashville's in the Final, McDavid/Laine (and others) give small markets in Edmonton/Winnipeg a lot of hope
Unless these European markets you're talking about are 100-150 thousand people I don't think small markets in NA are 10x bigger
Nashville not even close to being "the smallest market team in the NHL"
- Nashville's "metropolitan area" area population is 1.8 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nashville_metropolitan_area
- Edmonton's "metropolitan area" area population is 1.3 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton
- Calgary's "metropolitan area" area population is 1.3 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calgary
- Ottawa's "metropolitan area" area population is 1.3 million https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa
- Winnipeg's "metropolitan area" area population is 811K https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnipeg
I basically agree with what Yakushev72 is saying.....except I think the KHL is nowhere near doing anything like is being suggested (I really still don't see a difference from 1970s Russian Elite League and the KHL....both propped up by government money on a constant basis, both existing for the national team/propaganda purposes, neither being anywhere near a real hockey league with real competition and real business decisions being made)
Market size really doesn't matter so much with a Draft, League Salary Cap, and shared revenues (from an overall profitable league)
P.S. And regarding the Coyotes being "small market" - Phoenix (their home for many years) has a metro population of 4.6 million! HaHa
Milos Krasic
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Yugra is kind of a sad example of this. Upstart club wins two second division titles.
Jumps to KHL, is respectable. Makes the playoffs. Biryukov was an All-Star, had Gusev, imports like Larsen and Kaspar.
Things fall apart. They basically ice a VHL team, and now are contraction favorites.
Jumps to KHL, is respectable. Makes the playoffs. Biryukov was an All-Star, had Gusev, imports like Larsen and Kaspar.
Things fall apart. They basically ice a VHL team, and now are contraction favorites.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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The KHL predicts the clubs and the league mutually will earn at least 12bn rubles/season, in today´s rate it is around 200m USD. This should support other classic European clubs to join (if the league will want to expand beyond 24, which I think they will). The CHL has no chance here.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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It is a complicated situation. It seems there is a war between current leadership of Dynamo hockey club (Safronov) and Dynamo Sports Association (Центральный совет ВФСО Â«Динамо»). I guess it is about money - who will control them? Therefore there are rumors about debts of hockey club for renting Novogorsk, which is owned by Dynamo Sports Association (to be clear the land is owned by Association). The Association rented the Novogorsk for free, but changed the opinion a few months ago (maybe the change of leadership of the Association?). The hockey club is separated from the Association and of course the Association wants to run the hockey club. But Safronov does not agree... so the Association accused Safronov of doing illegal things. You know, the pressure on him to leave the club. It seems the Association created new legal entitity who should run the hockey club and guaranteed the budget for next season. And of course new legal entity is NOT run by Safronov, but by guys from the Association (a guy called Sergei Fedorov). There is a rumor that Dynamo will merge with Vityaz. We will see. The true is that Golovkov (Vityaz President) is former President of Dynamo. Alexander Medvedev (KHL former Pres) is rumored to be a member of Dynamo´s leadership. He is a fan of Dynamo, is close to Golovkov.
hansomreiste
Registered User
At this rate, Dynamo Moscow will probably have devoured all professional hockey in Russia by 2120 by destroying teams one by one by merging. So many by's, woah. Wondering if they'd change the name or get rid of anything related to Vityaz completely. Dynamo is a strong entity so I don't think it will be changed. Unless they play in Podolsk, they wouldn't become Dynamo Podolsk either. Dynamo Vityaz sounds stupid. Keep it the way it is for the sake of Vityaz, I guess.
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vorky
@vorkywh24
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Dynamo brand will stay, no worry about it.
HK MVD and Vityaz have a short history. HK MVD was created by Ministry of Internal Affairs. If I know Dynamo is historically a brand of (Soviet) Ministry of Internal Affairs. So no suprise HK MVD merged with Dynamo a few years ago. Current Vityaz leadership & staff is full of people with Dynamo´s heritage. The merge would help the KHL which wants to contract the number of teams. Vityaz is unattractive club, they have had only one good season (16/17), is located in Moscow region (too many KHL clubs from Moscow). Vityaz and Severstal are two clubs from Western Conference which should leave the league as soon as possible. Amur, who is next in line for contraction (based on current club rating), has much more benefits for the league than Vityaz.
Wow, thanks for clearing it up Vorky. I thought Fedorov was still in an advisory role for CSKA? So the merger could actually happen before the new season or this situation could drag out for a long time?
vorky
@vorkywh24
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Not that Fedorov... but other Sergei Fedorov. I have just googled him, here and here. He is a former swimmer, worked at Russian swimming federation. He was appointed at his position in Dynamo Association in September 2016, he is responsible for Dynamo´s professional sport. Maybe a coincidence, but Dynamo hockey club´s problems started late 2016 or a bit earlier
The new legal entity (OOO HK Dynamo Moscow/ООО ХК "Динамо-Москва"), which CEO is Fedorov, was created in January 2016. KHL gave Dynamo a time to solve the problems (financing for new season) until next week. Chernyshenko, Golovkov & Medvedev denied the rumors of the merger. So I dont know... not so much time for a such decision ... of course if the merger has not been preparing for a longer time, which we dont know. True is that first signals of the merger appeared a few months ago.
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I find it interesting how the media - North American media obviously - reports this.
DYNAMO MOSCOW RAID FOR XXX BAD CLUB ECT!
Yet imagine if say.. NY Rangers had some legal or money issues, the headlines would be so different.
Same way they make the headlines of
KHL OWES MILLIONS OF MONEY TO PLAYERS!
When in fact a few teams do and we all know they always end up owing them money, its always paid and players still come so what's the issue
However with Dynamo Moscow, the story that their sponsor has cut their funding in half isn't a good sign. I seen some news, I forget in with Russian website, that they may end up building their new Soccer/hockey arena and end up with no teams to play in it
DYNAMO MOSCOW RAID FOR XXX BAD CLUB ECT!
Yet imagine if say.. NY Rangers had some legal or money issues, the headlines would be so different.
Same way they make the headlines of
KHL OWES MILLIONS OF MONEY TO PLAYERS!
When in fact a few teams do and we all know they always end up owing them money, its always paid and players still come so what's the issue
However with Dynamo Moscow, the story that their sponsor has cut their funding in half isn't a good sign. I seen some news, I forget in with Russian website, that they may end up building their new Soccer/hockey arena and end up with no teams to play in it
I find it interesting how the media - North American media obviously - reports this.
DYNAMO MOSCOW RAID FOR XXX BAD CLUB ECT!
Yet imagine if say.. NY Rangers had some legal or money issues, the headlines would be so different.
Same way they make the headlines of
KHL OWES MILLIONS OF MONEY TO PLAYERS!
When in fact a few teams do and we all know they always end up owing them money, its always paid and players still come so what's the issue
However with Dynamo Moscow, the story that their sponsor has cut their funding in half isn't a good sign. I seen some news, I forget in with Russian website, that they may end up building their new Soccer/hockey arena and end up with no teams to play in it
Yes the reporting is terrible, americans soak this stuff up too, I find myself always arguing to defend stupid articles like this with other local hockey fans. Sportsnet just posted article that reason why players are going to the NHL is worries about paychecks. Couldnt be further from the truth- Shipachev, Jerabek, Kempe, Mironov, Mamin, Antipin, Bereglazov are guys who are going to the NHL, none of which who have probably ever missed a paycheck. 4 weaker teams miss making payments (no guys going to NHL from these teams) and somehow that means the entire league is in financial shambles according to Sportsnet/others. Its propaganda garbage.
The main problem for the KHL continues to be that as soon as a player gets good enough to capture public attention, he is on the next boat out to the NHL. So if you are still playing in the KHL, it is pretty much likely that you have been judged to be talent-free. I don't know what the solution could be, other than to accelerate the production of top talent to replace them.
The problem with that solution is that there isn't enough investment by the KHL, the RHF, the Regions, the Cities, or any other source of funds, to keep pace with the voracious appetite of the NHL. A transfer fee between leagues? Why would the NHL enter into it, and what pittance would they be willing to give up? The NHL has all the leverage.
The problem with that solution is that there isn't enough investment by the KHL, the RHF, the Regions, the Cities, or any other source of funds, to keep pace with the voracious appetite of the NHL. A transfer fee between leagues? Why would the NHL enter into it, and what pittance would they be willing to give up? The NHL has all the leverage.
Nino33
Registered User
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I think this is completely falseI find it interesting how the media - North American media obviously - reports this.
DYNAMO MOSCOW RAID FOR XXX BAD CLUB ECT!
Yet imagine if say.. NY Rangers had some legal or money issues, the headlines would be so different.
Same way they make the headlines of
KHL OWES MILLIONS OF MONEY TO PLAYERS!
When in fact a few teams do and we all know they always end up owing them money, its always paid and players still come so what's the issue
Financial problems have been reported in NA regarding teams (with far more details/facts than you ever get from the KHL), but AFAIK no NHL team has had a problem meeting payroll in generations (it would definitely be major news if it occurred even once for one NHL team! let alone multiple times per year for multiple teams over multiple years)
Nino33
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The KHL's own website (from 11 days ago) says "We have seven clubs that have frequently been late in paying players’ salaries, and the average delay exceeds 200 days. This season, these combined debts amounted to more than one billion rubles (approx. $17.8m)" http://en.khl.ru/news/2017/05/25/347812.html
In addition, the League is contracting this year, and will again in the future (and salaries continue to go down), according to the KHL website itself; and contraction and unpaid/lower salaries have been issues in past years too
None of these are positive signs for the KHL, they're all serious problems, and none are propaganda, they're are all just basic facts
You're preaching to the choir.
N.A. hockey media has had it out for the KHL since day one. And even in instances when they report legitimate facts, they're frequently sensationalized and portrayed in the worst light possible. It's really a shame. Quite the contrast from our hockey media who, all things considered, is generally NHL friendly in most cases.
vorky
@vorkywh24
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@Nino33
There are still the same clubs which have problems with debts. And these teams will leave the KHL soon. Have you ever heard of debts of SKA or CSKA or Magnitka? Of course, you have not, because these clubs have no problems. The reason for contraction of teams is that the KHL needs to develop & some Russian clubs dont have economical potential (and have never had). Therefore the league will kick them out & will replaced them by European/Asian teams. Salaries of top players will grow, the salaries of average players will go down which is not a problem. The average players are overpaid now.
There are still the same clubs which have problems with debts. And these teams will leave the KHL soon. Have you ever heard of debts of SKA or CSKA or Magnitka? Of course, you have not, because these clubs have no problems. The reason for contraction of teams is that the KHL needs to develop & some Russian clubs dont have economical potential (and have never had). Therefore the league will kick them out & will replaced them by European/Asian teams. Salaries of top players will grow, the salaries of average players will go down which is not a problem. The average players are overpaid now.
Nino33
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I think it's ridiculous to think the NA media had/has it out for the KHL (I don't think you have any idea how little coverage there is; no one in NA really cares about the KHL at all)
I think it's really a shame that the truth simply being told is called "sensationalized and portrayed in the worst light possible"
Do you really think Russian media would cover years of NHL salary reduction/lower salary cap/teams leaving/players leaving and the coverage would be "friendly" ?
It's not the job of the NA media to "pump the tires" of the KHL
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