Player Discussion Kevin Shattenkirk

[Edge]

There's also this guy on Frolunda that reminds me of Henrik. I swear, he could almost be his twin.

 

[Rempe73]

I think Spooner, Miller, and Kreider, and maybe even Lettieri and Smith, have common faces.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Shattenkirk was always soft and a liability in the defensive end. His PP prowess and ability to jump up into the play more than mitigated it. I don't know if the knee problem is persisting or what, but Shattenkirk has no jump whatsoever to his skating. And even regardless of that, the writing was on the wall with regards to where this team was heading in the summer of 2017 and the signing should've never been made in the first place.

 

[Machinehead]

Shattenkirk is problematic because defense isn't really the problem, as much as we harp on it. He's good from his own blueline in, and he's good from within the offensive blueline. He sucks at transition.

The instinct is to play him with a "defensive defenseman" so he'll be stuck with Staal or Smith, when really, Shattenkirk should be with a puck-mover.

Unfortunately, we don't really have any puck-movers on the left. Skjei thinks he's a rover, but he's a defenseive defenseman, which is why he's better with a PMD on his right. Notice how he sucked with Shattenkirk? Because Shattenkirk isn't a PMD.

ADA-Shattenkirk would be the absolute tits.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Shattenkirk is problematic because defense isn't really the problem, as much as we harp on it. He's good from his own blueline in, and he's good from within the offensive blueline. He sucks at transition.

The instinct is to play him with a "defensive defenseman" so he'll be stuck with Staal or Smith, when really, Shattenkirk should be with a puck-mover.

Unfortunately, we don't really have any puck-movers on the left. Skjei thinks he's a rover, but he's a defenseive defenseman, which is why he's better with a PMD on his right. Notice how he sucked with Shattenkirk? Because Shattenkirk isn't a PMD.

ADA-Shattenkirk would be the absolute ****.

We'll have to agree to disagree about Shattenkirk being good from his own blue line in. Maybe you're talking about with the puck, which is a different story. But without the puck, I think he's the worst defenseman on the team. A lot of it has to do with a sheer unwillingness to engage in battles in front of the net.

 

[Machinehead]

The in-zone heat maps (the bottom one) indicate that Shattenkirk allows relatively few attempted shots from most areas of the zone.

But if you look at this handy entry/exit comparison tool...

Tableau Public

...Shattenkirk only scores a 56/100 the last two seasons at exiting with possession, which is average to below-average. Second-pair PMD such as Jared Spurgeon and Colin Miller score a 74 and 86 respectively. Tony DeAngelo scores a perfect 100/100.

Shattenkirk also only scores in the 60's and 70's in terms of shot contributions. Any offensive defenseman worth the salt in his sweat scores in the 80's and 90's - Spurgeon, Miller, DeAngelo, Ellis.

Shattenkirk isn't an offensive defenseman. He's just a defenseman who happens to be really good at shooting.

 

[Machinehead]

We'll have to agree to disagree about Shattenkirk being good from his own blue line in. Maybe you're talking about with the puck, which is a different story. But without the puck, I think he's the worst defenseman on the team. A lot of it has to do with a sheer unwillingness to engage in battles in front of the net.

It's the exact opposite. The data shows he's well above average without the puck and painfully average with the puck.

 

[haohmaru]

Can we agree that, with the puck, Staal is the worst D on the team? His decisions, particularly under pressure, are infuriating at times.

I'm going to wait until 10-15 games in before I really start to worry (more) about Shattenkirk. The guy hasn't played in 10 months and is probably feeling a huge amount of pressure with the expectations and this crappy start.

 

[Machinehead]

And hell, if you wanna keep it simple, Shattenkirk's 5v5 production isn't that great. Comparable to Erik Johnson, who nobody will ever accuse of being an OFD.

There's nothing to suggest Shattenkirk is an OFD or PMD 5v5.

 

[Machinehead]

Next time we play, watch Shattenkirk in iso.

I guarantee you'll see him breaking up plays and consistently being the right position, and then having no idea what to do with the puck.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

Shattenkirk was always soft and a liability in the defensive end. His PP prowess and ability to jump up into the play more than mitigated it. I don't know if the knee problem is persisting or what, but Shattenkirk has no jump whatsoever to his skating. And even regardless of that, the writing was on the wall with regards to where this team was heading in the summer of 2017 and the signing should've never been made in the first place.

Completely agree with you. And to add to what you said, Shattenkirk has often been caught flat footed as well. I don’t remember if he’s always been this slow or the knee is still a problem but he’s been dreadful out there.

 

[Synergy27]

Next time we play, watch Shattenkirk in iso.

I guarantee you'll see him breaking up plays and consistently being the right position, and then having no idea what to do with the puck.

I just feel like I live in crazy town when you things like this get brought up. I watch him in ISO constantly, and what I repeatedly see is the guy getting walked, making half-assed (or maybe just weak) attempts at separating guys from the puck, and poorly positioning himself between his goaltender and attacking defenseman.

Honest question, but if his "in zone heat maps" look so good, is it completely impossible for there to be another explanation? Similar to how these recent Ranger teams didn't shoot all that much, is it possible that Shattenkirk gives up high quality chances that end up going in on the first attempt (vice on the rebound)? Shots from bad spots beget more shots, hence, more heat.

My stance, as always, is that stats need to augment observation. In situations like this, where the stats and observation are in such stark disagreement, my opinion is that you need to start looking for other explanations.

Shattenkirk is a terrible defensive player.

 

[Machinehead]

I just feel like I live in crazy town when you things like this get brought up. I watch him in ISO constantly, and what I repeatedly see is the guy getting walked, making half-assed (or maybe just weak) attempts at separating guys from the puck, and poorly positioning himself between his goaltender and attacking defenseman.

Honest question, but if his "in zone heat maps" look so good, is it completely impossible for there to be another explanation? Similar to how these recent Ranger teams didn't shoot all that much, is it possible that Shattenkirk gives up high quality chances that end up going in on the first attempt (vice on the rebound)? Shots from bad spots beget more shots, hence, more heat.

My stance, as always, is that stats need to augment observation. In situations like this, where the stats and observation are in such stark disagreement, my opinion is that you need to start looking for other explanations.

Shattenkirk is a terrible defensive player.

Stats need to augment observation, yes, but I think in this case, you're seeing what's in line with your preconceived notions.

Shattenkirk to me, from viewings, is a player that struggles to move the puck. I almost never see him get "walked." He could be better in front of his own net, but we know for a fact that these shots aren't happening that often.

I think in terms of the eye test, Shattenkirk is a player whose mistakes get put under a microscope because of his reputation. He made a week play yesterday that led to a goal against. That's what everyone remembers. What nobody remembers is that it was 1 of 3 high-danger chances against he was on the ice for. Carolina had 16. It was the best rate of any Rangers D yesterday.

That's not to say he isn't a flawed player and that I'm not a little annoyed with him right now. But I think there's been a severe misidentification of what those flaws are.

ADA was springing guys on homerun passes left and right. Has Shattenkirk ever done that in a Rangers uniform?

 

[Synergy27]

Stats need to augment observation, yes, but I think in this case, you're seeing what's in line with your preconceived notions.

Shattenkirk to me, from viewings, is a player that struggles to move the puck. I almost never see him get "walked." He could be better in front of his own net, but we know for a fact that these shots aren't happening that often.

I think in terms of the eye test, Shattenkirk is a player whose mistakes get put under a microscope because of his reputation. He made a week play yesterday that led to a goal against. That's what everyone remembers. What nobody remembers is that it was 1 of 3 high-danger chances against he was on the ice for. Carolina had 16. It was the best rate of any Rangers D yesterday.

That's not to say he isn't a flawed player and that I'm not a little annoyed with him right now. But I think there's been a severe misidentification of what those flaws are.

ADA was springing guys on homerun passes left and right. Has Shattenkirk ever done that in a Rangers uniform?

FWIW, I'm willing to admit that my pre-conceived notions about Shattenkirk might be clouding my observations, but I have made a conscious effort to put that aside. I wanted to be happy about him coming here, and I thought he'd do a lot to relieve pressure from McD, but he's been really, really disappointing to me. Reminds me a lot of Tom Poti, which is obviously not a good thing.

That said, it's not even clear that you're advocating for him. You're basically saying that he's not good at the one thing he was brought here to be good at (puck moving, PP QBing). The guy doesn't even have a good slapper from the point.

ADA has all the leash in the world from me by the way. I want him playing every night.

 

[Fvital92]

Stats need to augment observation, yes, but I think in this case, you're seeing what's in line with your preconceived notions.

Shattenkirk to me, from viewings, is a player that struggles to move the puck. I almost never see him get "walked." He could be better in front of his own net, but we know for a fact that these shots aren't happening that often.

I think in terms of the eye test, Shattenkirk is a player whose mistakes get put under a microscope because of his reputation. He made a week play yesterday that led to a goal against. That's what everyone remembers. What nobody remembers is that it was 1 of 3 high-danger chances against he was on the ice for. Carolina had 16. It was the best rate of any Rangers D yesterday.

That's not to say he isn't a flawed player and that I'm not a little annoyed with him right now. But I think there's been a severe misidentification of what those flaws are.

ADA was springing guys on homerun passes left and right. Has Shattenkirk ever done that in a Rangers uniform?

He played 7 minutes against Carolina, so 3 high-danger chances when he was on the ice is pretty significant.

 

[Machinehead]

FWIW, I'm willing to admit that my pre-conceived notions about Shattenkirk might be clouding my observations, but I have made a conscious effort to put that aside. I wanted to be happy about him coming here, and I thought he'd do a lot to relieve pressure from McD, but he's been really, really disappointing to me. Reminds me a lot of Tom Poti, which is obviously not a good thing.

That said, it's not even clear that you're advocating for him. You're basically saying that he's not good at the one thing he was brought here to be good at (puck moving, PP QBing). The guy doesn't even have a good slapper from the point.

ADA has all the leash in the world from me by the way. I want him playing every night.

I'm really not advocating for him.

I just think he's a misunderstood player and perhaps a misused player.

He played 7 minutes against Carolina, so 3 high-danger chances when he was on the ice is pretty significant.

Fair. Forgot about that.

 

[haohmaru]

Shattenkirk is a low 4 high 5 who's a PP specialist. That's all he'll ever be and it's exactly what he was in St. Louis.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Shattenkirk is a low 4 high 5 who's a PP specialist. That's all he'll ever be and it's exactly what he was in St. Louis.

Shattenkirk played (and excelled) as a #1B/#3 defenceman on the Blues every season between 2011-12 and 2015-16, and they were one of the top teams in the league each and every year, never scoring below 100 point pace (102 point pace in 2012-13 being the lowest score) and being a top-3 regular season team in 3/5 seasons (finishing 4th and 6th in the other years).

 

[True Blue]

Shattenkirk played (and excelled) as a #1B/#3 defenceman on the Blues every season between 2011-12 and 2015-16, and they were one of the top teams in the league each and every year, never scoring below 100 point pace (102 point pace in 2012-13 being the lowest score) and being a top-3 regular season team in 3/5 seasons (finishing 4th and 6th in the other years).

Considering the fact that his minutes were shielded, I am not sure calling him a 1B is accurate

 

[True Blue]

Shattenkirk isn't an offensive defenseman. He's just a defenseman who happens to be really good at shooting.

And awful at defending

 

[Machinehead]

Shattenkirk is a low 4 high 5 who's a PP specialist. That's all he'll ever be and it's exactly what he was in St. Louis.

This is patently false. Shattenkirk got to STL four seasons before Parayko did.

 

[Off Sides]

He played 4 even minutes last game, played two goals against somewhat poorly. Sure it's a small sample size, the team is in transition roster and coaching wise yet I'm not sure how that can be considered a good sign.

 

[NYR]

I say give him another 3 games and if he doesn't get his head out of his ass by then, send him down to the Pack so he can find his game.
If that's even possible..

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I say give him another 3 games and if he doesn't get his head out of his ass by then, send him down to the Pack so he can find his game.
If that's even possible..

NMC

 

[Mikos87]

Those Blues team had a real deal no 1 D eating the toughest minutes.

Shattenkirk is Yandle minus the mobility, and that prevents him playing against top tier skaters. Add in the coverage gaffs, then you have a guy that's going eat PP minutes on the third pair do very well.

He's a good player on a contender, but on a rebuilding team.... all of those weaknesses get exposed.