Kent Hughes & Jeff Gorton General Discussion Thread - The Honeymoon Is Over

[McGees]

Wright could easily bust too in Montreal. We just have to wait. Too many people are saying he lacks compete and can be a floater.

I also prefered Wright (only because he's the consensus #1) but Slaf is a big body with nastiness in his game. A true PF. The more I read about him, the more this pick makes sense especially in a market like Montreal.

Give him a chance.

I was willing to take a chance but worried about Wright's mental health playing in MTL. Dealing with the pressure in his draft year is nothing compared to not scoring points in MTL for a week.
Slaf looks like he thrives under pressure and of the top picks, I think he tops the list for the type of personality that can survive/thrive in this market.

 

[Tripledeke333]

IMO some of the intangibles that people are saying are Wright’s biggest weaknesses are actually his biggest strengths. People just don’t “get” Wright and write him off as weird. In reality, Wright just sees the game at a higher level than his critics.

 

[McGees]

How did we end up with Huberdeau? Pretty sure he'll resign in Florida.

Zibanejad is a big time shooter. Dach is a pass 1st center, so a little different.

I think he is just talking about how the Rangers were rebuilt quickly, not necessarily comparing players.
Dubois will be our Panarin since he wants to sign here as a UFA and hopefully we have the cap space by then and are on the verge of being competitive.

 

[Tripledeke333]

I was willing to take a chance but worried about Wright's mental health playing in MTL. Dealing with the pressure in his draft year is nothing compared to not scoring points in MTL for a week.
Slaf looks like he thrives under pressure and of the top picks, I think he tops the list for the type of personality that can survive/thrive in this market.

Wright has had all the pressure on him since he was 15. Of all the players in the draft, I’m least concerned about him dealing with pressure.

 

[VirginiaMtlExpat]

Very happy because we had a f***ing good show.

Obviously our organisation is taking a bet on Dach. I am skeptical but also think it could pay off big. We will see but i trust that they see something big in him. Gorton must have scouted and interviewed a lot back in 18-19 when he had the 2nd overall pick with NYR.

I was initially in Wright camp but i am finally very happy with Slaf. He has an awesome presence, he has enormous starpower. I watched some of his tapes and he was something at the world cup as he was reaching for Patrik Laine record. I think he could be a franchise winger in the sphere of Kovalchuk/Nash/Gaborik in their prime.

I am also comforted by the fact that Wright fell to 4. I probably overrated him and i think there were legit question marks on him.

It is far too early to assess if Dach or Slaf will end up a good trade and the right pick.

But i am excited by the prospective of these guys hitting their ceiling.

Tough to give Romanov but ultimately we need 1D. Romanov is very nice and likeable but we already have a plethora of good defenseman. Romanov was the not. A good price to pay for Dach.

Very happy with the Hutson selection.

Mesar, Beck and Rohrer are also some very nice gets.

Cant wait to see the race of our roster at the same hours on wednesday. I don't expect much because of our cap situation.

Also, with the way he is behaving, i feel like Hughes will sometime do something his predecessor haven't been able to do. Sign a big time UFA to a rich deal.

Enjoy the weekend and get aboard the Slaf hype train.

A lot of these points align with mine. Especially the "too early to assess" part, which is why I never react viscerally to drafts, or at least, not in a negative way. Anyone can check however far back. Some of these gambles are terrific, especially as you noted: Hutson, Mesar, Beck, Rohrer, at the positions taken. If Hutson grows 1-2 inches and fills out a little, he will be a major steal and map to an early first-rounder in a "redraft".

 

[Milhouse40]

There is no point in not waiting the 3-4 years. Chucking a high draft pick out before he hits 23 is bad asset management.

I agree that Hughes and Gorton had the goodwill to make a few mistakes and that is gone now, before it is known that mistakes were made. They have gone out on a limb, they know that, and we'll see how it goes.

It's not about what we should or shouldn't do....I know Montreal and Montreal won't change.

We are an impatient bunch and the comparaison will be all over the place starting next year and if the comapraison is one sided, then it's going to get heavy, very heavy.

After the constant ''wait he's still young'' from Galchenyuk, then Drouin, then KK and never hitting anything......those prospect won't have the same latitude and time especially since the general reaction from the beginning is a little WTF.

 

[yianik]

It didn't start with him, the habs have picked a lot of big guys who didn't work out. Beaulieu, Stevenson, Komisarek, and Hainsey are probably their best big guys picked first since 1980. No stars, but acceptable players for a while.

So many failures: Wilkie and Juulsen were injured, but Pederson, Vallis, Bilodeau, Brown, Ward, Chouinard, Chipchura, Fischer, Tinordi and McCarron were their other top picks 6'2 and over. The "if he can fix his hockey playing we'll have a big hockey player" drafting strategy hasn't done very well.

Hmm, Sergachev was bigger than that, so at least they got one right. Jury is out on Mailloux and Slafkofsky, hope they have turned a corner.

A key difference may be that the guys being selected now generally have more skill, and critically, much better skaters.

 

[Beer and Chips]

With two very arguable moves the honeymoon is definitely over. Dach's performance next season will be picked apart and if questionable will we be reminding ourselves that these guys hired a peewee coach for an NHL team? Time will tell but they've lost many who would have given them more time.

 

[dinodebino]

I LOVED last night’s show! ENTERTAINED!!!!

 

[teamfirst]

It's not about what we should or shouldn't do....I know Montreal and Montreal won't change.

We are an impatient bunch and the comparaison will be all over the place starting next year and if the comapraison is one sided, then it's going to get heavy, very heavy.

After the constant ''wait he's still young'' from Galchenyuk, then Drouin, then KK and never hitting anything......those prospect won't have the same latitude and time especially since the general reaction from the beginning is a little WTF.

Yeah but it would have been the same for Wright if we would have selected him dont you think

 

[Championdumonde]

I'm less excited about them now for sure, but I really love MSL as coach.

Wish we drafted like Buffalo.

 

[Milhouse40]

Yeah but it would have been the same for Wright if we would have selected him dont you think

Yes....but since 80% of the Fans wanted him and was their favorite, a lot more fans would have excuses him and be a little more patient with him if the results were not great. now you already have a chunk of the fan base ready to jump on him.

 

[Treb]

Honeymoon is not over for me!

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I'm less excited about them now for sure, but I really love MSL as coach.

Wish we drafted like Buffalo.

...perpetually early thanks to sucking hard for decades on end??...

 

[dcyhabs]

It's not about what we should or shouldn't do....I know Montreal and Montreal won't change.

We are an impatient bunch and the comparaison will be all over the place starting next year and if the comapraison is one sided, then it's going to get heavy, very heavy.

After the constant ''wait he's still young'' from Galchenyuk, then Drouin, then KK and never hitting anything......those prospect won't have the same latitude and time especially since the general reaction from the beginning is a little WTF.

So we are now Toronto and there is no hope? I lived in Toronto, I liked the place, but the delusional fans who would back any dumb decision and pack the arena even if it was obvious the owner was intentionally allowing the team to stink absolutely ensured failure. The Montreal media is pretty much as bad as Toronto, and mostly Toronto-owned, but I don't think the fans are quite as delusional. They can't fill the arena when the team stinks.

Last year people had some patience because it's a rebuild. When they were ditching players to save money in the late '90s and early '00s there were open seats in the arena, beers going undrunk and hotdogs uneaten. Montreal fans have declined but we're not Toronto fans planning a parade route annually while watching the team do random dumb things.

Don't get me wrong, I loved living in Toronto, but Ballard and 50 odd years of futility have really doomed the fanbase. 29 years is too long, but the habs stretch of obviously putrid ownership, as opposed to visibly incompetent ownership, was way shorter. Watching a team get intentionally hamstrung by a horrible human being for decades is soul destroying.

 

[sampollock]

So we are now Toronto and there is no hope? I lived in Toronto, I liked the place, but the delusional fans who would back any dumb decision and pack the arena even if it was obvious the owner was intentionally allowing the team to stink absolutely ensured failure. The Montreal media is pretty much as bad as Toronto, and mostly Toronto-owned, but I don't think the fans are quite as delusional. They can't fill the arena when the team stinks.

Last year people had some patience because it's a rebuild. When they were ditching players to save money in the late '90s and early '00s there were open seats in the arena, beers going undrunk and hotdogs uneaten. Montreal fans have declined but we're not Toronto fans planning a parade route annually while watching the team do random dumb things.

Don't get me wrong, I loved living in Toronto, but Ballard and 50 odd years of futility have really doomed the fanbase. 29 years is too long, but the habs stretch of obviously putrid ownership, as opposed to visibly incompetent ownership, was way shorter. Watching a team get intentionally hamstrung by a horrible human being for decades is soul destroying.

Dubby is a god there

He is loved till he gets fired
Then he is a bum

 

[Saxon]

He sure did, precisely ten entire times in his Liiga season.

Balanced offensive threat though...5 goals...5 assists!!

 

[HitHard]

The same people who wanted consensus Wright complain that we didn’t get consensus players on list. Trust the process & if it doesn’t work: we know who need’s to be accountable.

 

[dcyhabs]

Dubby is a god there

He is loved till he gets fired
Then he is a bum

Well he's doing miles better than most of his color TV predecessors. I think Dubas went a little too far with the analytics. There are more stats for the regular season and some players don't have much in the way of playoff stats but it all fails because the playoffs is a totally different game, different rules, different motivation. The Leafs are fine in the regular season but they've accumulated a whole bunch of players who just can't, and may not want to, do it in the playoffs.

Galchenyuk was a disaster but it's sort of a relief not to have to watch Rielly in the playoffs.

 

[dinodebino]

55% of those polled here in another thread were satisfied with what happened over the last 24 hrs. Honeymoon is still on for the majority of posters! Bring the rubbers, mates!

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

Way too early to tell, have to give them a couple of years to put their stamp on the club. Most moves all make sense so far, as much as I liked Rommy there's no question LD is where we had the most depth and C is where we had the worst so happy to take a shot at Dach. Still lots of work to do this offseason and will see how it goes.

 

[HuGo boss]

I'm starting to warm up on the draft, but I had to change the order in my head (sounds dumb lol) slaff at 1 (wanted wright)
Hutson at 26 huge fan homerun swing
Mesar at 33
Beck at 60+
And the draft looks better

 

[Milhouse40]

So we are now Toronto and there is no hope? I lived in Toronto, I liked the place, but the delusional fans who would back any dumb decision and pack the arena even if it was obvious the owner was intentionally allowing the team to stink absolutely ensured failure. The Montreal media is pretty much as bad as Toronto, and mostly Toronto-owned, but I don't think the fans are quite as delusional. They can't fill the arena when the team stinks.

Last year people had some patience because it's a rebuild. When they were ditching players to save money in the late '90s and early '00s there were open seats in the arena, beers going undrunk and hotdogs uneaten. Montreal fans have declined but we're not Toronto fans planning a parade route annually while watching the team do random dumb things.

Don't get me wrong, I loved living in Toronto, but Ballard and 50 odd years of futility have really doomed the fanbase. 29 years is too long, but the habs stretch of obviously putrid ownership, as opposed to visibly incompetent ownership, was way shorter. Watching a team get intentionally hamstrung by a horrible human being for decades is soul destroying.

Losing is not the problem.....getting into project that never work out is.
This is the fault of last management and a little bit of the medias repeating the same thing for over 10 years for excusing every prospect not working out.

 

[Takeru]

They are gamble with 1st OA pick and overpaid for a reclaiming project Center. How can we recuperate asset? If this failed, I would like them to be fired.

Depends on the magnitude of the failure. I’ll see what fruits those moves bear before calling for heads to fall.

My comment was more about when they’ll notice those are on the wrong track and act accordingly.

There’s always assets to be recuperated, the sooner you move the better.
Slaf was a gamble probably half the league would’ve taken. There will be value still even should he start falling off track. Not if we hold on to him too long (should he fail).
Same with Dach, look at KK (comparable older profile) who we lost for next to nothing. There’s probably still some gms that would be willing to spend assets to take a flyer on him at this point even after a more than disappointing season.

But it’s more of a last resort scenario. Obviously the goal is to limit those mistakes, and I hope they have more data than we do and those aren’t simply blindfolded hail marys.
What I don’t want to see is them sticking with their mistakes till they run their values into the ground. Not that we know atm which moves are mistakes and which aren’t.

 

[Mayday1980]

Anecdotally, the most successful competitors I have seen (in team based stuff) are the ones who are solid between the ears. A player who can think at a high level (not even just the game, but in general) will usually have a more successful and fruitful career ... being a good teammate, being able to break out of slumps, being able to show humility to improve your weak areas, acknowledging your shortcomings so you can improve upon them etc.

I think the big reason they went Slaf over Wright had to do with something between the ears. Slaf seems very charismatic in a way I never really got from Wright. One feels like they are speaking from their heart, and the other from the hockey handguide for talking to the press. The on-ice product is only one component of a player; and you can see that the most successful stars in the NHL are ones with robust personalities, otherworldly talent, or something in between. You really need that swagger but it needs to read as confidence as opposed to conceitedness, and I think while Slaf's reads as the former, Wright clearly rubbed people the wrong way.

I get the impression based on interviews the media has had with Hughes and the picks selected this year that the main personality characteristic he's looking for is "compete-level" and "competitiveness". In compete-level he's looking for how much the player wants it, like "Gallagher" level wants it. In competitiveness its more of how much will the Montreal spotlight on and off the ice affect the players potential on ice play and development. You're spot on Mackiaveli that I think Hughes identified risks in Wrights' mentality that he didn't see in Slaf. Not saying that it's an accurate decision but that's what his decision was and since the Scouts probably said it was a toss up in overall talent level plus potential at this very moment they went with Slafkovsky.

Wrights' playstyle is reactive and instinctive which should elevate the players around him but Slafkovsky seems more of a "take the bull by the horns and run with it" type of playstyle. I think Slaf fit the managements' team plan and having Dach available to trade for solidified the decision. My worry with Slaf is he's 25% chance of a Gamebreaking Jagr level talent (not the same skill set but similar in size and abilities) and 75% chance of a diminishing return with the lowest point being a slight more offensive Joel Armia. Wright is a minimum Kyle Turris but his ceiling is a 1 in 3 chance of Joe Sakic level production overall i think he tracks more towards his floor than his ceiling which scared off scouts. Slaf is more of a 4 sided diced roll with "Jagr-great-good-Armia" being the 4 results of the roll. Wright is a 6 side dice with 2 sides being Sakic and 4 sides being Turris.

My worry going forward seeing this draft is that Hughes has a lot of experience in interactions with individual players as an agent and little experience with the building of a team. Gorton has more experience that way but the coaching carousel in New York doesn't really bode well historically. I feel like our picks avoided character and size risks but lost some of the "pure talent" potential of other players that were available. (Nazar, Lambert, Wright)

I also wanted us to use our later picks in the 2nd-5th rounds on the high talent Russians that dropped but the mentality for this draft is much more near term (2-3 years) than load up on the best talent some of which might by 4-5 years away. What it says to me is we aren't taking Michkov next year unless we can finagle him out of his contract.

We'll get some NHLers out of this for sure, several i think. But there were higher risk, higher upside guys I would have taken with later picks and gone with the safe 2nd line centre in Wright. Would take the 13th pick for Romanov to the bank though! That was a great value trade.