Confirmed with Link: Katz Group in legal battle with Boyle Street

[Drivesaitl]

It looks to me like the conditions for the conditional donation were met. Boyle Street was unable to fundraise enough money to take the donation off the table.

Imagine if NHL teams could sue other NHL teams after trades with conditions because they think the player with the conditions didn't try hard enough.

Theres no substantiation of this whatsoever. What is uncontested in fact is that Boyle Street failed to meet the fundraising conditions and amounts. That you could arrive on this conclusion should be astounding to me,, but isn't.

 

[brentashton]

Social media isn't the courts and we should stop pretending it is or is representative of views. As judged by responses already in this thread we see a balance of views here rather than the typical hive mind of social media.

People know I'm fervently against Arena/Stadia public fund supported builds, was staunchly against this Arena being built. But that doesn't dissuade me from noting the crux of the contention that Boyle street did not meet the conditions of the original agreement and as stated were instead relying on the 5M. That is counter to what the agreement was.

Further, I could say its even a bad look how many people wanted this project, where it is, and with the agreements (which commonly tend to get broken in these transactions) and are now complaining about the latest. Ironically more than a few people that used to post here were enraged that anybody would oppose any and all of the Arena agreements and would typically posit all the good that would come from that and that anybody that couldn't see that was "a clown". Well here we are. yet again with another of the agreements not having materialized as announced.

I've also long encouraged people to donate to already established charities rather than the Oilers foundation or 50/50 tickets and the like whereby only a fraction of the money gets to service where it’s needed.

Millions of Reddit and X (or whatever the @%&# it’s called this week) patrons just gasped in horror,

 

[OG Eberle]

God, I was hoping the same mainboards mentality of "comment first, read 2nd" would be a little different here.

Guaranteed that 90% of the first 12 responses in here didn't bother to click, read, or even have a thought about the article. Just read the headline and went "hurr durr, Katz scumbag... cheapskate billionaire"

Some of y'all just blindly hate for likes/pseudo-internet relevance.

 

[PBandJ]

It looks to me like the conditions for the conditional donation were met. Boyle Street was unable to fundraise enough money to take the donation off the table.

Imagine if NHL teams could sue other NHL teams after trades with conditions because they think the player with the conditions didn't try hard enough.

That's what I'm seeing. They needed to raise minimum $8.5 million, Katz agreed to donate $5 million if they couldn't hit their goal with a dollar for dollar reduction on anything over $8.5.

Boyle Street raised $7.3 million with the city and province refusing to help and still waiting word from the feds.

Katz is just being a cheapass as usual. He got his playground (that we paid for), now he can put the screws in.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Whether the conditions were met or not... its a freakin bad look on a billionaire owner. It's a damn homeless organization that you're taking to court because they didn't fundraise on their own... and you benefitted from taking over their property.?

Katz is getting ripped on Social media right now and rightfully so.

Easy to be upset when it’s someone else’s money. If every hero on twitter actually cared about the homeless they wouldn’t have had an issue raising the money.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Oh I can just imagine what the thread on CP looks like right now.

Reading the article it’s a bad look on Katz but if Boyle Street is indeed in breach of their contract should Katz really be required to pay the extra 5M?

They are in breach. That's for certain

Makes Katz look dumb at the same time. He could wipe his ass and blow his nose for five million

Nothing comes free in this world though

A contract is a contract. That's it. It's black and white

 

[bellagiobob]

While the headline obviously sounds brutal, the devil is in the details. Not to defend Katz, but it has been mentioned thru blips and blurbs that he is one of the city’s most philanthropic citizens, so this story is likely more than about cheaping out on a charity. And it does look like Boyle Street maybe went a bit too extravagant on their building designs. The renderings look absolutely beautiful, to the tune of 29M, which is 24M more than they received for their former property, which KG bought for 5M, which was FMV. Oilers Comm Found kicked in another 10M, still leaving half the cost of the project in shortfall. Anyhow, hopefully thru arbitration they can work this out, and the facility can get built in one form or another.

 

[Skar]

Easy to be upset when it’s someone else’s money. If every hero on twitter actually cared about the homeless they wouldn’t have had an issue raising the money.

It's almost as if Katz isn't profiting millions off of a publicly funded arena

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Good for them.

 

[Oilers88]

Given that it’s a CBC written article I’m going to wait until I understand the facts of the matter before I get too churned up here.

My suspicion is that the “conditional donation” (CBCs choice of words) is being pulled because the conditions haven’t been met. Unfortunately, because it’s a charity and billionaires, pearls will get clutched here, but if the charity signed a contract and didn’t follow through on their obligations, it would be in Katz’s order to walk away. Same as if it’s the other way and Katz has reneged.

But in this case it appears that it’s Katz that has launched legal proceeding so it makes sense to assume that the charity has reneged on some of its terms.

I guess court or a negotiated settlement aside will sort this out eventually.

It sounds like that's pretty much it. Based on the article, it sounds like Boyle street needed an additional $8.5 million for their project to go ahead. Katz Group and Boyle Street signed an agreement whereby Boyle Street would make best efforts to fundraise the additional $8.5 million, but if they weren't able to, the Katz Group would make an additional donation.

Best efforts is a really high legal standard- it basically means doing everything in your power short of bankruptcy. Katz Group is alleging they didn't do enough, including that they fundraised for their operating fund instead of fundraising for the new facility. It seems like they're now asking for a declaratory judgment that they don't have to pay the donation. Without knowing the background facts, all of that seems plausible.

What shocks me is that the Katz Group continues to have no PR sense whatsoever. Their public image is very much one of a heartless billionaire stepping on anyone and everyone in the community to make a dollar, and they just keep making it work. I've worked as an in house lawyer for big companies before, and the organizations reputation is always a major consideration. When you're deciding to bring a lawsuit, the first question is always how would this look on the front page of the Edmonton Journal. "Billionaire sues local charity to avoid paying donation" is just a bad look.

 

[Ninety7]

Tough look for Katz group in the public eye but a deal is a deal

 

[Chet Manley]

Going to court to get a disagreement settled isn't an act of greed or evil.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Katz Group, not Katz himself. May I suggest changing the title of the thread before one individual is going to be chastised for the actions of a company. I understand he’s the owner but I doubt the decision was his and his alone.

“…we remain supportive of Boyle Street Community Services and their plans to move into the King Thunderbird Centre, which will provide them with a long-term, sustainable facility to deliver their services," said Tim Shipton, OEG Sports & Entertainment's executive vice president of external affairs.

Monsters

If you want to play that game. the original 10M donation was made by the EOCF, which gets the majority of its funding from the 50/50, not by Katz.

 

[Sra1974]

Awful, awful look for the Katz group no matter what the details are. Hes gonna lose this one big in the court of public opinion.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I was told about this situation brewing last fall. Unfortunate and embarrassing that it has become public especially with the hard reality it relates to an arena build and gentrification strategy which was massively publicly subsidized all with a primary objective to maximum profitability.

Capital fundraising for charitable organizations is difficult at the best of times. Doing so through covid and post covid recovery amplifies the challenge exponentially with even more competition for philanthropic dollars. It is exceedingly difficult if you can't secure federal and provincial funding support which is noted in the media report. This fundraising work specifically requires significant resources in both time and financial cost cultivated over years. Personally I can't see how the charity won't be able to defend its conditional requirements being met.

Exceedingly poor judgement by a private led Gatsby who successfully sold off his core business for multiple billions to pivot into a sports and entertainment conglomerate all predicated upon a stalking horse bid to buy the Oilers; leverage public sentiment and emotion to get a new profit centre NHL and concert venue built on massive public subsidy that extended so deeply it included a long-term civic ad buy requirement. Katz has ridden the team valuation into a billion dollar asset; part of a billion dollar dividend from two lucrative NHL consortia expansions; and as one of the prime developer of an urban regentrification play. All over $5 million for a deeply established community organization dedicated to helping Edmonton's most vulnerable populations try to endure and survive. Bad faith.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

It's almost as if Katz isn't profiting millions off of a publicly funded arena

Cool?

 

[frag2]

Cool?

Some just make it sound like Katz paid zero lol

Honestly, if Katz didn't kickstart the whole arena thing, the shit hole downtown is gonna keep on looking shittier.

 

[DavidHasselhoffsFist]

If you want to play that game. the original 10M donation was made by the EOCF, which gets the majority of its funding from the 50/50, not by Katz.

well there you go

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Some just make it sound like Katz paid zero lol

Honestly, if Katz didn't kickstart the whole arena thing, the shit hole downtown is gonna keep on looking shittier.

We would end up being Calgary. A team with an embarrassing rink that only got replaced when it was completely funded by the public.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I was told about this situation brewing last fall. Unfortunate and embarrassing that it has become public especially with the hard reality it relates to an arena build and gentrification strategy which was massively publicly subsidized all with a primary objective to maximum profitability.

Capital fundraising for charitable organizations is difficult at the best of times. Doing so through covid and post covid recovery amplifies the challenge exponentially with even more competition for philanthropic dollars. It is exceedingly difficult if you can't secure federal and provincial funding support which is noted in the media report. This fundraising work specifically requires significant resources in both time and financial cost cultivated over years. Personally I can't see how the charity won't be able to defend its conditional requirements being met.

Exceedingly poor judgement by a private led Gatsby who successfully sold off his core business for multiple billions to pivot into a sports and entertainment conglomerate all predicated upon a stalking horse bid to buy the Oilers; leverage public sentiment and emotion to get a new profit centre NHL and concert venue built on massive public subsidy that extended so deeply it included a long-term civic ad buy requirement. Katz has ridden the team valuation into a billion dollar asset; part of a billion dollar dividend from two lucrative NHL consortia expansions; and as one of the prime developer of an urban regentrification play. All over $5 million for a deeply established community organization dedicated to helping Edmonton's most vulnerable populations try to endure and survive. Bad faith.

There were articles on the predicament in the fall. Its not even new news.

'Not financially viable': Boyle Street to close downtown Edmonton location when lease expires

The social service agency said that it was not "financially viable" to extend the lease at its downtown location which will close Sept. 30.

edmontonjournal.com

Boyle Street COOP, like some other community orgs get the most benefit of doubt and sweetheart leases from the City to cater to mandate.

Boyle Street hasn't itself been upfront about how a 1 Dollar lease is "not financially viable" but a peek at operations and annual reports might lend light on that. As with many community orgs Boyle Street has an expansionist mindset instead of tending to what their original mandate is. for instance wanting to set up services in Old Strathcona.

This article from 2022 is also interesting as it denotes that 75% of funding was already had at that time.

Edmonton’s Boyle Street Community Services reveals name of new facility, 75% of fundraising goal reached - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Boyle Street Community Services is close to achieving its fundraising goal for its new facility, and says it's been able to get this far without any government funding.

globalnews.ca

Given the stated present shortfall it seems as if funding for the new facility came to a standstill since then. Presumably as Boyle Street was banking on just getting the 5M and/or the new facility. Devil is in the details as others mentioned, and we don't have all of those.

In anycase we're speaking of an operation that is now "homeless" ironically serving the homeless and not disclosing how the Coop got that way. To consider that Boyle Street Coop itself is not fulfilling its own mandate by not even having the former facility is not unreasonable. Indeed one can even think the Coop leveraged this situation assuming they would have the new facility and curry public favor to get it. But irresponsible actions imo as with respect to Boyle Streets stated mandates. Which they have now compromised delivering.

The most unabashed shame in this could be that Boyle Street Coop was banking on shame landing on Katz, and while skirting their own responsibilities. Not saying its the case. But its a possibility.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

There were articles on the predicament in the fall. Its not even new news.

'Not financially viable': Boyle Street to close downtown Edmonton location when lease expires

The social service agency said that it was not "financially viable" to extend the lease at its downtown location which will close Sept. 30.

edmontonjournal.com

Boyle Street COOP, like some other community orgs get the most benefit of doubt and sweetheart leases from the City to cater to mandate.

Boyle Street hasn't itself been upfront about how a 1 Dollar lease is "not financially viable" but a peek at operations and annual reports might lend light on that. As with many community orgs Boyle Street has an expansionist mindset instead of tending to what their original mandate is. for instance wanting to set up services in Old Strathcona.

This article from 2022 is also interesting as it denotes that 75% of funding was already had at that time.

Edmonton’s Boyle Street Community Services reveals name of new facility, 75% of fundraising goal reached - Edmonton | Globalnews.ca

Boyle Street Community Services is close to achieving its fundraising goal for its new facility, and says it's been able to get this far without any government funding.

globalnews.ca

Given the stated present shortfall it seems as if funding for the new facility came to a standstill since then. Presumably as Boyle Street was banking on just getting the 5M and/or the new facility. Devil is in the details as others mentioned, and we don't have all of those.

In anycase we're speaking of an operation that is now "homeless" ironically serving the homeless and not disclosing how the Coop got that way. To consider that Boyle Street Coop itself is not fulfilling its own mandate by not even having the former facility is not unreasonable. Indeed one can even think the Coop leveraged this situation assuming they would have the new facility and curry public favor to get it. But irresponsible actions imo as with respect to Boyle Streets stated mandates. Which they have now compromised delivering.

The most unabashed shame in this could be that Boyle Street Coop was banking on shame landing on Katz, and while skirting their own responsibilities. Not saying its the case. But its a possibility.

I don't live in Edmonton so am unaware of the public known-ness involved. Only what I was told in private context this past fall.

The question to ask is why a charitable organizations would choose to leave an established central location in the middle of a capital campaign and de-centralize its operations over 4 or 5 sites. Defies logic, highly disruptive and a financial burden to "choose" the latter over a $1 dollar lease agreement.

The CBC reporting references failed public dollars from Federal and Provincial governments with another large grant source pending. Capital campaigns typically build upon this public commitment before a major fundraising campaign is undertaken. Without it, the significant fundraising work is usually not undertaken. EDIT: Charitable organizations especially one's without capital campaign fundraising experience (aka most of them) would in all highly likelihood only commit to move forward without foundation public investment by multi-levels of government with some high likely pledge to backstop a financial shortfall. This seems reasonable with the Katz Group's additional 'conditional' pledge of $5 millions.

From one of your article links that I'd be curious about. What is the motive involved ... vanity chasing by a charitable group to build a new centre while turning their core operations into a logistical nightmare or something else? It's also a community organization that has earned its credibility and public trust over 50 years. Guess it plays into how one wishes to gage if it would deem worthwhile killing their reputation (and by extension their organization's future) on a shakedown of its landlord and a major donor that has a vested interest to 'help' relocate a vulnerable population facing organization away from the crown jewel of its corporate profit centre building and gentrification investment.

“We did have an option to stay but we’ve decided not to do that because it’s not financially viable for our organization at this time,” Tanti said, adding, “this is not the first time in the organization’s history that we’ve been homeless and we don’t have a place to operate out of … this is no different.”

“That being said, this is a disruption and this is not ideal.”
He declined to say more about why the lease is not being extended, citing confidentiality around Boyle Street’s agreement with OEG, but stated it would be inaccurate to characterize the situation as an eviction.

“The terms of our lease agreement with the Katz Group reside in a larger real estate agreement and that I am not able to comment on publicly.”

 

[Heavy Dee]

Given that it’s a CBC written article I’m going to wait until I understand the facts of the matter before I get too churned up here.

My suspicion is that the “conditional donation” (CBCs choice of words) is being pulled because the conditions haven’t been met. Unfortunately, because it’s a charity and billionaires, pearls will get clutched here, but if the charity signed a contract and didn’t follow through on their obligations, it would be in Katz’s order to walk away. Same as if it’s the other way and Katz has reneged.

But in this case it appears that it’s Katz that has launched legal proceeding so it makes sense to assume that the charity has reneged on some of its terms.

I guess court or a negotiated settlement aside will sort this out eventually.

The way I understand it is the foundation gave them 10 million for the new building then they promised 5 million more under certain conditions. So potentially 15 million of a 28 million dollar project.

Now the project is two years behind schedule, which if the lease would have been extended it would have cost OEG a whack in development time etc.

While it's a bad look for Katz, the OEG did funnel a ton of cash to Boyle street.

 

[Darkwinter]

God, I was hoping the same mainboards mentality of "comment first, read 2nd" would be a little different here.

Guaranteed that 90% of the first 12 responses in here didn't bother to click, read, or even have a thought about the article. Just read the headline and went "hurr durr, Katz scumbag... cheapskate billionaire"

Some of y'all just blindly hate for likes/pseudo-internet relevance.

I worked as a volunteer at Boyal Street and didn't need to read some bloody article to know what kind of stress was put on our staff. Be within two feet of someone being stabbed to death then I guess you would be ringing a different tune . Two stabbings and one death in one year is not a good look for anyone

 

[mkatcherin00]

It sounds like that's pretty much it. Based on the article, it sounds like Boyle street needed an additional $8.5 million for their project to go ahead. Katz Group and Boyle Street signed an agreement whereby Boyle Street would make best efforts to fundraise the additional $8.5 million, but if they weren't able to, the Katz Group would make an additional donation.

Best efforts is a really high legal standard- it basically means doing everything in your power short of bankruptcy. Katz Group is alleging they didn't do enough, including that they fundraised for their operating fund instead of fundraising for the new facility. It seems like they're now asking for a declaratory judgment that they don't have to pay the donation. Without knowing the background facts, all of that seems plausible.

What shocks me is that the Katz Group continues to have no PR sense whatsoever. Their public image is very much one of a heartless billionaire stepping on anyone and everyone in the community to make a dollar, and they just keep making it work. I've worked as an in house lawyer for big companies before, and the organizations reputation is always a major consideration. When you're deciding to bring a lawsuit, the first question is always how would this look on the front page of the Edmonton Journal. "Billionaire sues local charity to avoid paying donation" is just a bad look.

The PR thing is what astounds me. Are they all really this stupid? Did they just file this without telling him? Lol

 

[TheNumber4]

Optics are bad but I bet it’s not as bad is it looks. Hasn’t Katz been attempting to relocate that shelter for awhile now, get it away from the Ice District?