Kane or Kessel?

[Captain Conservative]

I'd rather have kessel. Extremely impressed with his comeback after the cancer.


Character.

 

[KingKessel81]

well we both dont know him personally- and he might have a bad rap from the combine article last year...but where there is smoke there is fire- and i have heard reports of kessels attitude before.


with that in mind kessel had a rough year on a rough team- not taking anything away. kane had an awesome wjc- and an awesome usndp year...i think his skills will transfer over well in the nhl in a year ot two.

So you believe everything you hear from a year ago when there is no evidence of him having an attitude problem?

Well, when Eklund comes up with Pejorative Slured trade proposals (like Malkin to Montreal for Abby, Souray, 1st rounder or whatever he said in the off-season) that have the Pens being robbed; I hope you view those as "where there is smoke, there is fire" and Malkin is going to be traded; otherwise it is hypocritical thinking.

Either you're a person who believes everything you hear or you are just looking for reasons not to like Kessel because the Pens passed on him. If it is the latter, that is pretty dumb-- you should just be happy you got a stud in Jordan Staal who is currently better than Kessel.

 

[Bam Beet*]

Phil "The Thrill" Kessel.

 

[Gags1288]

Wasn't Kane more productive on the US Under-18 team then Kessel was? I don't understand why people think attitude is the only reason Kane could be chosen over Kessel. I'd say that Kane has been more impressive at the OHL level then Kessel was in college (though obviously tough to compare) and he was more impressive in the WJ's. I think it's very close between these two and they bring different things to the table, but I'd probably opt for Kane.

 

[Abyss]

, the thing is Kessel has amazing skills, he just hasnt been improving as fast as some others, both will be great...

What are you talking about? If you watched Kessel at all pre-cancer and post-cancer he's been about 100 times better the last 2 months.

Considering the cancer, I think he's improved damn fine in only 8 months of NHL hockey...

 

[TheKingPin]

I've never seen Patrick Kane play so all I can really say in 2 things in response to this thread:

1.) Phil Kessel has not complained about ice time this season. I'm guessing you're talking about the article that Pens fans had overblown on your board. He was asked why he didn't have as many points as some of the other rookies and he said ice time. That certainly isn't complaining about ice time; it is answering the reporters question truthfully. He hasn't had nearly as much ice time as other rookies due to cancer (missed several games so that is no ice time) and the fact that Dave Lewis plays his vets over young guys like Kessel and Kalus (to be fair, he has been playing Kessel significantly more lately). It isn't like he said "I deserve more ice time (which he did deserve) but my coach has a woody for 35 year old, ugly, skill-less players"; which again would be entirely true.

2.) Kessel has been the Bruins best overall foward over the last 2 months. Sure, the Bruins have sucked during these 2 months and Marc Savard has mailed it in since we've been eliminated but that is still pretty damn impressive for a teenager to be his teams best foward for that long. His defensive game has improved by an insane amount and I'd argue he has been one of the Bruins best defensive fowards over these past 2 months. He is using his speed to backcheck and take the puck away from guys not paying attention to him pretty often. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the Bruins penalty kill within the next few years if his defensive game keeps improving as much as it has.

I just have a hard time believing Kane (and some of you may be right; I've never seen him) is a better prospect than another teenager who has been the best player on an NHL team for 2 months and you can see; is full of ridiculous potential.

judging by your name im gonna rule you out because of bias. I personally hope and think that Kane is not just better than Kessel but can be a star player.

 

[burstnbloom]

judging by your name im gonna rule you out because of bias. I personally hope and think that Kane is not just better than Kessel but can be a star player.

Well I think theres certainly a resonable chance that Kane is going to be better, its hard to tell because they havent really played in comprable competition yet. I will say that most of what KK81 is saying is true though. I was against Kessel to the Bruin's for the very same reasons you guys are talking about. I was hoping one of the other 5 would fall and I expected the worst all through training camp. When Kessel wasnt very good at the beginning of the year I feared that my misgivings about the kid were well founded, and I felt that way up until he got sick.

Granted, its hard to not root for a cancer survivor, but honestly I was sold on him as soon as he had his press conference. The kid was pretty impressive and I realized that really his attitude issues, were purely shyness. Since then I let my expectations sit int he back seat and just watched him objectively.

Kessel came back on an absolute mission. His positioning is 100x better than it was pre-cancer, hes skating with confidence and purpose, he involves his linemates whenever he can and seems to have a total nose for the game developing around him. His shot is electric, and hes an underrated passer. Ive totally come around on him. If what Bruins fans are seeing the last 8-12 weeks from Kessel is his developmental path then Kane will have to be a star to be better than Kessel, because thats what hes developing into.

 

[dafoomie]

Kessel's "issues" pre and post draft have time and again turned out to be absolute crap. Kessel is a good hard working kid.

Kessel's got 17 points in his last 32 games, and 11 in his last 19, thats not bad for a 19 year old in his first year pro. This kid is going to be an impact player, if he were in this year's draft, he'd be the consensus #1. Anyone in last year's top 5 would be, the top of this class is not as good.

His totals would certainly be higher if he were on a more offensive minded team. Almost no one on the Bruins has any even strength points to speak of, and Kessel wasn't getting any PP time. He's 4th on the Bruins in even strength points, 1 point more than Sturm, 3 less than Murray, and 5 less than Bergeron.

I think people are seriously underrating Kessel's potential, as is common here once players hit the NHL and don't instantly become the next Gretzky. Kessel is on the road to being a star in this league.

 

[Yann]

What are you talking about? If you watched Kessel at all pre-cancer and post-cancer he's been about 100 times better the last 2 months.

Considering the cancer, I think he's improved damn fine in only 8 months of NHL hockey...

I'm not saying he hasnt improved, and though you are right lately he raelly has raised the level of play, but what I mean is that at some point he was a lock to be selected 1st overall, he was supposed to be an instant star in the NHL, but he hasnt developed from there on as fast as expected, Kessel is definately going to be great...

This years class isnt as good as others, but I think people are underrating its top 10, the top ten lacks the Crosby or Ovechkin of other years but it is strong, so why is the draft weak, well after the first 10, maybe 15 it instantly falls back by alot, and after the top 25 the depth is flat out horrible, well thats what i heard a scout reported... Guys like Kane and Cherepanov, and also Turris and others are not to be underrated, they are solid prospects...

 

[primetime]

I'm not saying he hasnt improved, and though you are right lately he raelly has raised the level of play, but what I mean is that at some point he was a lock to be selected 1st overall, he was supposed to be an instant star in the NHL, but he hasnt developed from there on as fast as expected, Kessel is definately going to be great...

There are very few instant stars in the NHL. Crosby, sure, but even guys like Thornton took a couple years to get their bearings, and Thornton was physically more ready for the big show than Kessel. Ovechkin came in and dominated but, again, was physically ready, a year older than Kessel, and had played in a professional league already.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

this is rather quite hilarious. My bet is they are being compared because Patrik Kane is American, and in the end if he was Candian no one is gonna talk about him. If he was Candian, hes just gonna be another star player Canada manufactured, but if hes American its a big deal because in the past 10 years they have yet to produce any super stars. Literally Superstars.

I also find it funny too, at one time PHil Kessel was in the same Sentence as Sidney Crosby, (Americans anserw to Sidney Crosby) i thought it was a joke, as we all saw, at the same age, Crosby is far superior to Kessel, and prior to that they were saying how Kessel's or one or 2 people were saying his "celing" is higher and now, some dude name Mr.Kane comes along and maybe better then Kessel.

As I know, Phil Kessel is one hell of a dynamic player, crazy shot, amazing play maker too. I honestly find it hard to believe he will be better then Kessel.

 

[rt]

What is this Canada you speak of? Where can I find it? It sounds so...so...underrated. It really is a shame no one has ever heard of it.

 

[Fan of The Game]

I would take Kessel but it might be closer than people give it credit for.

 

[Johnny Snake Eyes]

i have watched at least half of the bruins game and without a doubt he has been there best player the last few weeks. His line of either kalus, chistov, Tenkrat, or donnavon consitantily outperform top lines of savard, bergeron, and strum. who knows how good kane will end being but of right now i would take kessel in a heartbeat.

 

[slade]

I'm sorry, but your post is, frankly, ridiculous. Of course we don't know Kessel personally. Who on these boards does?

All we can go by is our personal observations and expert opinion. By the way, I assume you've never actually seen Kane play. Nor have I. I've seen Kessel play many times this year and have been in awe of some of his moves and talent.

"Where there's smoke, there's fire..." To support your argument you're holding on to the opinion of a few before the draft, which, fortunately for Boston, caused him to drop from #1 to #5. Can you cite a single attitude problem with Kessel?

ive seen the entire london knights season this year plus playoffs, including the wjcs- as well. i went to school in buffalo and heard about kane when he was 14-15 years old.

not sure where your assumptions come from.

 

[slade]

So you believe everything you hear from a year ago when there is no evidence of him having an attitude problem?

Well, when Eklund comes up with Pejorative Slured trade proposals (like Malkin to Montreal for Abby, Souray, 1st rounder or whatever he said in the off-season) that have the Pens being robbed; I hope you view those as "where there is smoke, there is fire" and Malkin is going to be traded; otherwise it is hypocritical thinking.

Either you're a person who believes everything you hear or you are just looking for reasons not to like Kessel because the Pens passed on him. If it is the latter, that is pretty dumb-- you should just be happy you got a stud in Jordan Staal who is currently better than Kessel.

the year jordan staal had i was very impressed with...everyone was. the draft has nothing to do with my opinion. ohl coaches had no idea staal would have such an impact in the nhl at this age...and frankly- if staal (at his skill level) can crack a team...i think kane is nhl ready now.

 

[Dicky Dangles]

this is rather quite hilarious. My bet is they are being compared because Patrik Kane is American, and in the end if he was Candian no one is gonna talk about him. If he was Candian, hes just gonna be another star player Canada manufactured, but if hes American its a big deal because in the past 10 years they have yet to produce any super stars. Literally Superstars.

I also find it funny too, at one time PHil Kessel was in the same Sentence as Sidney Crosby, (Americans anserw to Sidney Crosby) i thought it was a joke, as we all saw, at the same age, Crosby is far superior to Kessel, and prior to that they were saying how Kessel's or one or 2 people were saying his "celing" is higher and now, some dude name Mr.Kane comes along and maybe better then Kessel.

As I know, Phil Kessel is one hell of a dynamic player, crazy shot, amazing play maker too. I honestly find it hard to believe he will be better then Kessel.

No, what's "rather quite hilarious" is that you're CanAdian, and you misspelled CanAdian, not once, but twice. And so what if two young, up and coming Amercan players are being compared? I know we're not worthy of talking about "Canada's game" down here in "The States", but we're proud, nonetheless, of our potential Amercan Superstars, literally.

 

[Wash]

the year jordan staal had i was very impressed with...everyone was. the draft has nothing to do with my opinion. ohl coaches had no idea staal would have such an impact in the nhl at this age...and frankly- if staal (at his skill level) can crack a team...i think kane is nhl ready now.

That's grabbing at a straw. You could use that to justify almost anyone being NHL-ready. Perhaps I misunderstand you but irregardless, being NHL-ready doesn't mean you play right away. Look at Nicklas Backstrom with the Caps. He was supposedly NHL-ready. It totally depends on the situation of the team. Guys like Scotty Hartnell have been in the NHL before they were NHL-ready. Also, "NHL-ready" is about as concrete of a term as "war on terror". What is "NHL-ready" to me may not be "NHL-ready" for your club. I hate to say it, but it's really all relative.

Another thing I don't really understand - why choose between the two? If all goes well, they're two pretty damned good players. And the difference between them is not significant enough to merit some huge thread of people rehashing and recycling old arguments. What it comes down to is simply a matter of preference. I'd take Scott Niedermayer over Chris Pronger but if I had either, I'd still have a Norris-caliber defenseman. Get my point? These guys are both young studs! Good God!

With that said, Kessel is an established NHL player. Kane is a draft eligible prospect. Who's a step ahead? That's not to say Kane won't get there because I'd take Kane over Belak, who is also an established NHLer. All I'm saying is that in a situation where both teams would get a stud, the team with the established NHLer "wins" by default. Because, and may I survive the flame war to last another day, Kane could miss. Now may the Hockeysfuture gods protect me from harm befalling me for "attacking" a prospect...

 

[Wash]

No, what's "rather quite hilarious" is that you're CanAdian, and you misspelled CanAdian, not once, but twice.

I realize and acknowledge that poor spelling does take one's credibility down a notch but I have more than a few buddies who can't spell to save their lives but I still respect and value their opinion.

And so what if two young, up and coming Amercan players are being compared?

Because it's a pointless argument. They'll both be stars assuming all goes to plan, why start comparing them? It's not like there is some huge talent difference, it's merely a matter of preference.

I know we're not worthy of talking about "Canada's game" down here in "The States", but we're proud, nonetheless, of our potential Amercan Superstars, literally.

And so you should be. Those two are good players. I realize some Canadians have a superiority complex but I'm glad to see some people from "THE States" who follow hockey.

 

[Dicky Dangles]

I realize and acknowledge that poor spelling does take one's credibility down a notch but I have more than a few buddies who can't spell to save their lives but I still respect and value their opinion.



Because it's a pointless argument. They'll both be stars assuming all goes to plan, why start comparing them? It's not like there is some huge talent difference, it's merely a matter of preference.



And so you should be. Those two are good players. I realize some Canadians have a superiority complex but I'm glad to see some people from "THE States" who follow hockey.

I wasn't really necessarily trying to defend that these two should be compared, but rather just the fact that we're discussing two really talented American players, because you're right, there may not be a ton of us down here in America who love hockey, but there are some, and every bit as fanatic as Canadian hockey fans. Because that's the point, if you're a hockey fan, that should be enough. But, if these two, along with the Johnson's, Skille, JVR, etc...can boost exposure at all in America, then that's a plus for everybody, in my book.

And I get your point about spelling, but for cripes sake, if you can't spell the name of your own country, that's just sad.

 

[Wash]

I wasn't really necessarily trying to defend that these two should be compared, but rather just the fact that we're discussing two really talented American players, because you're right, there may not be a ton of us down here in America who love hockey, but there are some, and every bit as fanatic as Canadian hockey fans. Because that's the point, if you're a hockey fan, that should be enough. But, if these two, along with the Johnson's, Skille, JVR, etc...can boost exposure at all in America, then that's a plus for everybody, in my book.

Well, the States have definitely overcome what I'd consider a dry patch in their development years. Some great kids coming up through the ranks. So you guys have every right to be excited.

And I get your point about spelling, but for cripes sake, if you can't spell the name of your own country, that's just sad.

Yeah, it's pretty sad, but welcome to the message board world. I just bite the bullet and try and not let it bother me. In all truthfulness, this board is one of the best I've ever seen in terms of intelligent, respectful people.

 

[Dicky Dangles]

Well, the States have definitely overcome what I'd consider a dry patch in their development years. Some great kids coming up through the ranks. So you guys have every right to be excited.



Yeah, it's pretty sad, but welcome to the message board world. I just bite the bullet and try and not let it bother me. In all truthfulness, this board is one of the best I've ever seen in terms of intelligent, respectful people.

Well, thanks for the logical, intelligent conversation. It's appreciated.

 

[no name]

I think Kessel is the safer bet at this point due to the fact that he has come around of late showing he can handle the NHL. With that said, in 5 years I think Kane will be the superior player.

 

[slade]

That's grabbing at a straw. You could use that to justify almost anyone being NHL-ready. Perhaps I misunderstand you but irregardless, being NHL-ready doesn't mean you play right away. Look at Nicklas Backstrom with the Caps. He was supposedly NHL-ready. It totally depends on the situation of the team. Guys like Scotty Hartnell have been in the NHL before they were NHL-ready. Also, "NHL-ready" is about as concrete of a term as "war on terror". What is "NHL-ready" to me may not be "NHL-ready" for your club. I hate to say it, but it's really all relative.

Another thing I don't really understand - why choose between the two? If all goes well, they're two pretty damned good players. And the difference between them is not significant enough to merit some huge thread of people rehashing and recycling old arguments. What it comes down to is simply a matter of preference. I'd take Scott Niedermayer over Chris Pronger but if I had either, I'd still have a Norris-caliber defenseman. Get my point? These guys are both young studs! Good God!

With that said, Kessel is an established NHL player. Kane is a draft eligible prospect. Who's a step ahead? That's not to say Kane won't get there because I'd take Kane over Belak, who is also an established NHLer. All I'm saying is that in a situation where both teams would get a stud, the team with the established NHLer "wins" by default. Because, and may I survive the flame war to last another day, Kane could miss. Now may the Hockeysfuture gods protect me from harm befalling me for "attacking" a prospect...

the thread title is kane or kessel- that is why. i know prospects are a crapshoot- but i just think that an ohl rookie (granted hes an '88) can step up his level of competition and still lead the point race with a significant less number of games played- is a huge accomplishment.

ive basically only had opposition from bruins fans- most of which havent even seen kane play a game.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

do you remember what Kessel did at the WJC?

Vividly.