Value of: JT Miller vaule and price set now that Nazem Kadri has signed with Flames.

[AppalachianFinn13]

His Vaule must be through the floor now

 

[zcaptain]

They are pretty comparable players IMO. Take out last year, and their careers are virtually identical. 0.637 PPG to 0.636 PPG.
Kadri plays on a more offensive team, no doubt, but that can hurt him because he won't get the same offensive opportunities as JT, who has become the go to guy in Vancouver.

The 2 year age gap is a difference, but IMO 7x7 is a slight overpayment for Kadri, and about right for Miller.

It confuses me to read comments like yours......................

Miller's last 3 years are almost exactly the same as Zibanejad, who starts his 8 X $8,500,000 contract this season
They are the same age, size, weight, etc..........as a matter of fact, Miller has out scored him, on a lesser team. This is exactly Miller's argument.

Now, considering Miller is going to be paid $5,250,000, any 7 year deal that is $8,500,000 of less is a better contract than Zibanejad's

At the very least, Miller's contract is $8,250,000 X 7 years, which expires, the exact same year as Zibanejad's

Zibanejad....................8 X 8.5 million per = $68,000,000

Miller's.........................1 year X 5.25 + 7 years X 8.5 million = $64,750,000

So, I do not seeing it being much less!

It will be a front end loaded contract for sure! which may make it easier to get Miller's AVG Cap down.....but this is what I got figured, anyways!

 

[Breakers]

zibanejad is the comp not Kadri

 

[zcaptain]

zibanejad is the comp not Kadri

Exactly!

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

If Miller would have signed a 7x7 it would have been done ages ago. Every team in the league would give him that.

Kadri's outcome severely affects Millers. Miller has more value, but not 1.5 more. Miller at 8x7.75 or 7x8 makes more sense now. Miller is competing with guys like Kane, ROR, Tarasenko, Pacioretty, Debrincat, Larkin, Mackinnon, Toews, Pastrnak, Bertuzzi, etc. Sure many will sign before UFA. But some will hit UFA(like Kane) and with no cap increase(or minimal) he is fighting for what little flexibility there is.
Everyone thought Kadri was going to sign first day and get 8-9m. Turns out he had to settle for Calgary and on August 18th.

 

[RandV]

zibanejad is the comp not Kadri

You can probably use all of them, you just have to keep in mind the age and at what point the contracts back slides. I don't know if it's a straight $7M salary but Kadri's cap hit should be lower because he has more years in the back diving range.

 

[miscs75]

I wonder what's his vaule

A top 10 proven player, generational prospect and your next 10 1sts with no protection.

 

[BCNate]

If we can get Miller at around 7m we keep him. Worth more than traded with that extension.

I would 100% sign Miller to the Kadri deal given the opportunity.

 

[PROUD PAPA]

His Vaule must be through the floor now

It blew through the roof and is exiting the Milky Way.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

But we’ve been told Vancouver “quietly” has the best forward group in the NHL and can “quietly” take the Pacific this year. Sounds like he’s the perfect fit.

No sane Canuck fan believes any of that. Our forward group is pretty deep but hardly the best in the NHL and I haven't seen one fan say we will win the division.

 

[BayStBullies]

Oh, another Miller thread. No one can guess how this one will go! Certainly not Canucks fans trying very hard to make every other team want to overpay for a player they don't want to pay. Then arguing about how they're wrong for not doing what they will not + giving away 4+ valuable pieces for the luxury.

 

[kanucks25]

The argument about "He doesn't fit our core" doesn't work when he's a player as good as he is(At least according to Canucks fans), if he's that good you do what you have to do to keep him and build around him. It's not like he's super old, still only 29. You trade Horvat and re-sign Miller, go with JT and Petey as the Top 6 Centers, with a combination of Boeser, Garland, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Mikheyev, and Kuzmenko as the Wingers in the Top 9.

Except it does.

When you sign a UFA deal like Miller's will be and Kadri just did, you accept that the back half may not look pretty, but it's a risk you take to capitalize during the first half which lines up with your window.

Calgary is accepting here that almost their entire roster is in their prime now so they are going to go for it for the next few years. After that, their roster will age out and they will likely have to rebuild, which is a period of time they can eat the bad contracts of their old guys without it really mattering.

The Canucks are not in the same situation - Miller could possibly be out of his prime by the time we are ready to really contend.

 

[andora]

Remember the assets it takes a good team to trade for him potentially

1. Assets to vancouver
2. Potential assets to clear room for him now
3. Potential future assets lost in accomodating his raise (players needing to be moved or players sacrificed due to existing rfa raises)

This is not a simple trade and has a lot of specifics for the other team to acknowledge and likely limits the market sunstantially

As a pure rental it becomes easier

 

[SenzZen]

 

[ohnoeszz]

The interesting thing is the Flames being willing to move a 1st just to clear room to give 7 years to a 31 year-old.

The trade doesn't set the market but it flies in the face of the Miller commentary saying teams won't want to give value and pay a big contract for a 29 year old.

 

[zcaptain]

The interesting thing is the Flames being willing to move a 1st just to clear room to give 7 years to a 31 year-old.

The trade doesn't set the market but it flies in the face of the Miller commentary saying teams won't want to give value and pay a big contract for a 29 year old.

This is a very good point! It kind a makes you wonder what the Islanders are thinking!

 

[zcaptain]

IMO, Miller gives who ever trades for him, 4 or 5 years of solid 1st line center (80 to 100 points)

Now, who fits that need?

 

[Tob]

This will help millers camp say miller is a year younger, you have to give him the full 8 years and he's a better player, you know it, we know it. The contract demand remains at 8X$8.5M+ a la Forsberg. This sets a hard floor for what the Canucks management could reasonably propose. Nothing changes. Only way that this might help is Vancouver concedes that the contract will be at least $8MX8 and both sides re-engage in their dialogue.

 

[Paul4587]

Miller is younger and better than Kadri. He’s not signing the same deal as Naz.

 

[My3Sons]

Miller loves Van, but his ask may not make sense for our timeline. If we can work it out, he’ll sign here. If he goes UFA, I do believe he’ll sign in the U.S.

Isn't Vancouver trying to win now? What about the Petterson interview where he said he might not extend again if the team isn't good enough? They gave Boeser a short extension rather than trade him. If Miller will sign in Vancouver for market rate what would be the problem?

 

[Canuck86]

Isn't Vancouver trying to win now?

Canucks are trying to make the playoffs, we are not a cup contender and if they pay JT over 8m for 8yrs its going to screw them when they have to sign their "core" players to new long term and high dollar contracts...oh and still try to add to the team cause well, they haven't address the cap issues they talked about at length nor have they done anything to fix the D.

so depending on Demko to be remarkable all year to just get into the playoffs is NOT worth paying JT Miller long term in my opinion. Trading him for a decent return that would bring in younger assets that fill areas of need should be the plan. No i am NOT expecting 3 or 4 pieces coming back all with 1st round value either...

 

[notsocommonsense]

Isn't Vancouver trying to win now? What about the Petterson interview where he said he might not extend again if the team isn't good enough? They gave Boeser a short extension rather than trade him. If Miller will sign in Vancouver for market rate what would be the problem?

Vancouver is trying to make the playoffs w an eye on the future. On the Pettersen comment, he’s a big part of whether they will or won’t be good enough once his contract is up. Van won’t be a contender unless they fix the D and Petey in particular takes a significant step. The problem w signing Miller to market rate ( depending on what we consider market rate to be ) is, as I’ve pointed out, they are not currently a contender and he may not be the contributor they need at that cap hit once they are. Van has been handcuffed by boat anchor contracts for years, no need in extending that.

I want Miller the player back, but it has to make sense and not cost us younger core players and cap flexibility in the long run.

 

[My3Sons]

Vancouver is trying to make the playoffs w an eye on the future. On the Pettersen comment, he’s a big part of whether they will or won’t be good enough once his contract is up. Van won’t be a contender unless they fix the D and Petey in particular takes a significant step. The problem w signing Miller to market rate ( depending on what we consider market rate to be ) is, as I’ve pointed out, they are not currently a contender and he may not be the contributor they need at that cap hit once they are. Van has been handcuffed by boat anchor contracts for years, no need in extending that.

I want Miller the player back, but it has to make sense and not cost us younger core players and cap flexibility in the long run.

that's a fair and thoughtful analysis so thanks for sharing as well as @Canuck86. You both seem to have a consistent viewpoint. Vancouver certainly needs to shed some cap, but one big contract to a guy getting older shouldn't hamstring the team if they can clean up the messy overpaid vets in the bottom six. If Miller buys into Vancouver and is happy I'd sit down with him and be blunt "you are easily worth the $9 mil per you want. We want to make you happy and balance the needs of the younger guys who will grow over the next X number of years and support you in what we all want to be a good team. Can you live with a deal at $8 mil per?" Sure, he probably declines the last couple of years, but absent injury he's likely still a decent player. The NJ example is Travis Zajac. He made about $6 mil when that was like today's $7 mil. He was never a high end guy but was a solid center. He made it to the end of the deal without bottoming out as a player. He was always at least a competent 3C. Miller should be able to fill that sort of a role. If you aren't TOR or the NYR I think it's important to keep your good players happy and to keep guys that want to be there. I don't think the return on Miller is going to be tremendous and I'd think he'd be part of the solution in Vancouver. Vancouver has some good players and I'm just not sure that they are a better team without Miller over the next five years.

 

[deckercky]

that's a fair and thoughtful analysis so thanks for sharing as well as @Canuck86. You both seem to have a consistent viewpoint. Vancouver certainly needs to shed some cap, but one big contract to a guy getting older shouldn't hamstring the team if they can clean up the messy overpaid vets in the bottom six. If Miller buys into Vancouver and is happy I'd sit down with him and be blunt "you are easily worth the $9 mil per you want. We want to make you happy and balance the needs of the younger guys who will grow over the next X number of years and support you in what we all want to be a good team. Can you live with a deal at $8 mil per?" Sure, he probably declines the last couple of years, but absent injury he's likely still a decent player. The NJ example is Travis Zajac. He made about $6 mil when that was like today's $7 mil. He was never a high end guy but was a solid center. He made it to the end of the deal without bottoming out as a player. He was always at least a competent 3C. Miller should be able to fill that sort of a role. If you aren't TOR or the NYR I think it's important to keep your good players happy and to keep guys that want to be there. I don't think the return on Miller is going to be tremendous and I'd think he'd be part of the solution in Vancouver. Vancouver has some good players and I'm just not sure that they are a better team without Miller over the next five years.

Vancouver:
1.) Is not currently good enough (they have enough talent that they could make playoffs, and potentially even win a round, but they're far from being a real threat to go far in the postseason). That means retaining the same core with no changes is clearly not a solution.
2.) The team lacks cap space.
3.) Has some good young pieces.
4.) The team lacks quality prospects.

Realistically, the team will need to move a good player or two to get itself out of a jam. I'd love to keep Miller, in a vacuum, but if the team chooses to do that, they should move Horvat.

 

[racerjoe]

Remember the assets it takes a good team to trade for him potentially

1. Assets to vancouver
2. Potential assets to clear room for him now
3. Potential future assets lost in accomodating his raise (players needing to be moved or players sacrificed due to existing rfa raises)

This is not a simple trade and has a lot of specifics for the other team to acknowledge and likely limits the market sunstantially

As a pure rental it becomes easier

I don't think 2/3 are really a thing.

For example and Canes fans don't @ me I as I have said in other threads I don't think you will trade for JT it doesn't fit your teams M/O.

Canes get JT Miller and a depth RD maybe Bouroughs?

Canucks get Bear, Necas, and a 1st or Morrow or something

That deal is a near wash in salary, as I think many deals will end up being that happen now.