Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - Part 4

[WG]

I think alot of fans, we most do, try to reconcile with the POTENTIAL of the trade, and the incoming player as possibly exciting....so many were excited about JD's potential...that being said, alot of people were saying, let's wait and see too.

Anyhow, we all know that after the first season or two, whar a stupid, jerked off trade for BS reasons it was, and Sergachev filled a glaring need they had in TB and has TWO stanley Cups, and Drou Drou hasn't had a good season in 5 years.........

I think the predominant feeling on the trade was initially, OK here's a former top pick with potential to be that high end scorer the team needed (context being the feeble 1st round exit vs. NVR where they couldn't score). But it was how ADDING Drouin to the lineup was going to make the roster better.

But then MB signed Alzner, didn't sign Markov, and lost out on Radulov, so the net effect was flipping Radulov for Drouin as the highest paid top 6 scorer but at the cost of the team's best prospect (and with Markov's departure, at its most glaring place of need).

That's when the JD acquisition turned for me, and I suspect for many others. Long before JD's first game, long before the team's 'brain trust' decided Galchenyuk would never be a centre but JD could step right in at 1C.

 

[jfhabs]

Drouin could have been had.............for peanuts. Everyone knows this.....they had to move him, for cap reasons, and his sooking style of personality. He could have been had for peanuts.....not for a potential 2-3 type of PMD kid, who had serious potential, as we were telling Markov to go Fu%$ himself, and 5 years later still haven't replaced him for gods sake....
Then................MB does exactly what he shouldn't have..........keys to the city and 33M dollars, without earning it.
Kick in the nuts to the entire team.....and he had the auducity to blame the leadership group for not buying in during the camp that season..........Markov, Rads, Emelin, Beaulieu, all gone.......in Drouin and Pickles Alzner....
2017 is THE year, Bergevin lost his mind, and was just starting the back 5 years, of his 10 year clown show....
The trade should never had been made.....................but the gamble could have been taken, using a 2nd round pick, not a very good D prospect.

It was the placating the BS franco media that told everyone, MB was NOT running the team......and he had no brain.

I'm not sure Drouin couldve been added for a 2nd round pick. But, I very mich agree 2017 was a fiasco. That year alone f***ed us so bad. The worst year for a GM in Montréal since Rejean Houle

 

[BLONG7]

I'm not sure Drouin couldve been added for a 2nd round pick. But, I very mich agree 2017 was a fiasco. That year alone f***ed us so bad. The worst year for a GM in Montréal since Rejean Houle

So, at that point, you don't make the deal and Drouin stays in TB.............which of course he couldn't....right?
The narrative was the GM that owned the hammer got fleeced....and no way that should have happened.
This.............is when MB started to make Reggie Houle look smart.

 

[expy]

I think the predominant feeling on the trade was initially, OK here's a former top pick with potential to be that high end scorer the team needed (context being the feeble 1st round exit vs. NVR where they couldn't score). But it was how ADDING Drouin to the lineup was going to make the roster better.

But then MB signed Alzner, didn't sign Markov, and lost out on Radulov, so the net effect was flipping Radulov for Drouin as the highest paid top 6 scorer but at the cost of the team's best prospect (and with Markov's departure, at its most glaring place of need).

That's when the JD acquisition turned for me, and I suspect for many others. Long before JD's first game, long before the team's 'brain trust' decided Galchenyuk would never be a centre but JD could step right in at 1C.

The opinion at the time of the trade, at least on these boards was VERY divisive.

Don't quite remember the anglophone press's opinion at the time, but I don't remember anyone saying the Habs won that trade or anywhere near that.

 

[HeussLenfoire]

Can’t wait for him to quit this team, I can’t stand his face anymore

 

[dcyhabs]

The opinion at the time of the trade, at least on these boards was VERY divisive.

Don't quite remember the anglophone press's opinion at the time, but I don't remember anyone saying the Habs won that trade or anywhere near that.

Sergachev wasn't a sure value at the time. As with the McDonagh trade there was some thought that the habs should be able to evaluate their prospect and would not have given him up if he were really good. Sergachev continued to show he was good and Drouin is now both flawed and redundant with Toffoli, Hoffman, and Caufield while the habs have no D.

Drouin was coming off some good stats on a good team. Tampa did a good job with the pump and dump while the habs showed they couldn't evaluate players.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Next season is his UFA contract year, he’ll likely be focused and get prime TOI if vets are moved in the next few months - so the question to be asked will max return be gained this deadline or next?

So the Habs could get two bags of used pucks for him at next year's trade deadline?

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Drouin has been our best and most consistent forward this year.
If we don't include the game he got injured where he only played 2 min, he has not gone scoreless for 3 consecutive games.

 

[Habs Halifax]

That wasn’t an overreaction at all. Taking a stick like that on the fingers or hands area is a good way to break them and it hurts like a b****. It’s not a huge deal at the end of the day but he definitely deserved the keep your ****ing stick down in practice jab he likely got there.

If it was the other way around, Drouin would be considered a p***y

 

[JoelWarlord]

I think the predominant feeling on the trade was initially, OK here's a former top pick with potential to be that high end scorer the team needed (context being the feeble 1st round exit vs. NVR where they couldn't score). But it was how ADDING Drouin to the lineup was going to make the roster better.

But then MB signed Alzner, didn't sign Markov, and lost out on Radulov, so the net effect was flipping Radulov for Drouin as the highest paid top 6 scorer but at the cost of the team's best prospect (and with Markov's departure, at its most glaring place of need).

Yeah this was the key thing for me. At the time I thought it was a reasonable high risk/high reward decision after we won the division but flat out couldn't score any goals in the first round. At the time Drouin looked like he could add some scoring punch to the 2nd line with potential long-term upside if he hit his potential. Sergachev was obviously a heavy price to pay, but in the context of an aging core that just had a 103 point season and desperately needed more scoring talent it seemed like a reasonable risk to take. If we went that route and made an honest effort to compete keeping Markov + Radulov I would be much less negative about the trade because it would have been a reasonable gamble that just didn't pan out, and sometimes that just happens.

Instead they let Markov and Radulov walk, signed a plug to an atrocious contract, and went into the year penciling in Drouin at C. That decision basically forced us into the "retool" at which point I think most people would have preferred to keep Sergachev due to the fit with Weber. It's frustrating because it turned the trade from a gamble that didn't pay off into something that was just flatly a really stupid idea to begin with. The whole point of trading for him was to add to the 16-17 team that won the division while penciling in some long term upside if things go well. Instead we traded away our best prospect at what became a position of glaring need for the sake of flatly downgrading on the wing.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Can’t wait for him to quit this team, I can’t stand his face anymore

We can use a little less of this from our fans. "Can't stand his face anymore". We as fans do not have the right to take things this far IMO. It's only hurting our team's ability to attract top UFA's.

Drouin has flaws yes and it's frustrating. Leave it at that and I think he is a good guy to have around during tank years. If we were closer to contending, I say we would have to find a way to unload him but that's not our direction at the moment.

 

[tazsub3]

Drouin has been our best and most consistent forward this year.
If we don't include the game he got injured where he only played 2 min, he has not gone scoreless for 3 consecutive games.

i guess watching the scoreboard more then games. Now i not watch the last 3 but before, he was atrocious, zero effort, passes in the skates, no back checks, and resulting in goals at end of games when the idiot coach sends him out.
Though i strongly pray a gm see the positive optics the way you do, as i sure would like him as far from this team as possible

 

[JoelWarlord]

Drouin has flaws yes and it's frustrating. Leave it at that and I think he is a good guy to have around during tank years. If we were closer to contending, I say we would have to find a way to unload him but that's not our direction at the moment.

I don't think so. Tank years can be important for development and long-term decisions because you have the luxury of giving players extended looks at top 6/top 4 roles they might not otherwise get the chance to have on a more competitive team, or to take high upside but low probability gambles on veterans or mid/late 20s players who had good draft pedigree but never had a breakout year.

If it's going to cost picks to dump his contract then yeah I'd rather just keep him for one more year, but if someone would take him for a 4th in the offseason I think it's for the best to just move him and free up that spot in the top 6 for someone else because I don't think the Habs should waste that "free" year where they can try things out with zero pressure to be competitive on a player who they won't be using in the top 6 when this rebuild's over. I'd much rather throw short term money at eg. Rakell or Niederreiter or even see if Domi would come back, or give Poehling/Ylonen some time as top 6 wingers, and generally just try out some different stuff that you might not have the "time" to do when you're trying to get better and actually exit the rebuild.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think so. Tank years can be important for development and long-term decisions because you have the luxury of giving players extended looks at top 6/top 4 roles they might not otherwise get the chance to have on a more competitive team, or to take high upside but low probability gambles on veterans or mid/late 20s players who had good draft pedigree but never had a breakout year.

You can figure out where certain young players sit in the long-term pecking order, take on reclamation projects from other teams, try out stuff like Poehling on the wing in the top 6 and see how he meshes as a distributor for Gallagher and if there's anything there, etc. Give Ylonen a long look with Suzuki and Anderson and see if that's going to be a fit long term. Throw short term money at someone like Niederreiter or Rakell and either flip him for picks or keep him long term if he finds some chemistry with Suzuki or whoever else. There's just a lot of far more interesting stuff you can do by freeing that roster spot up and maximizing the lost season as an opportunity to get valuable information about young players or try reclamation projects.

If it's going to cost picks to dump his contract then yeah I'd rather just keep him for one more year, but if someone would take him for a 4th in the offseason I think it's for the best to just move him and free up that spot in the top 6 for someone else because I don't think the Habs should waste that "free" year where they can try things out with zero pressure to be competitive on a player who they won't be using in the top 6 when this rebuild's over.

Do you think Drouin with us has derailed development for Suzuki, Caufield, Poehling, Romanov so far?

 

[JoelWarlord]

Do you think Drouin with us has derailed development for Suzuki, Caufield, Poehling, Romanov so far?

No, but only one of those players are wingers. And I believe he may have/will in the future with a less extreme injury and covid situation. I don't think it's some horrible outcome if he's on the team next year or anything I just don't think another year of playing Drouin in the top 6 gives us any information we don't already have.

When healthy this team has Gallagher, Anderson, Toffoli, Hoffman, and Drouin as wingers making top 6 money plus Caufield who we ideally hope will be playing there next year. I would guess that Toffoli will be traded either at the deadline or in the offseason, and I think they're going to keep Anderson around. After that it's difficult to project what happens with Gallagher and Hoffman and I think it's probably more likely than not that both players are on the team next year. It's just a numbers game for me and I'd rather give Ylonen/Caufield a top 6 spot to fight over and/or bring in a reclamation project type of player, especially because the worst case scenario in that situation is just using Lehknonen/Byron/Armia on the 2nd line if those guys fail which is not a big problem for a tank team.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No, but only one of those players are wingers. And I believe he may have/will in the future with a less extreme injury and covid situation. I don't think it's some horrible outcome if he's on the team next year or anything I just don't think another year of playing Drouin in the top 6 gives us any information we don't already have.

When healthy this team has Gallagher, Anderson, Toffoli, Hoffman, and Drouin as wingers making top 6 money plus Caufield who we ideally hope will be playing there next year. I would guess that Toffoli will be traded either at the deadline or in the offseason, and I think they're going to keep Anderson around. After that it's difficult to project what happens with Gallagher and Hoffman and I think it's probably more likely than not that both players are on the team next year. It's just a numbers game for me and I'd rather give Ylonen/Caufield a top 6 spot to fight over and/or bring in a reclamation project type of player, especially because the worst case scenario in that situation is just using Lehknonen/Byron/Armia on the 2nd line if those guys fail which is not a big problem for a tank team.

Drouin around for one more year after this season doesn't hurt our rebuild or cap structure. Unless your plan is to improve the team in the off season and try for the playoffs again. In that case, then you try to move Drouin.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Drouin around for one more year after this season doesn't hurt our rebuild or cap structure. Unless your plan is to improve the team in the off season and try for the playoffs again. In that case, then you try to move Drouin.

No, I said what my plan is. It's to trade him for a late pick for whoever wants him and move on to open up the top 6 spot for Ylonen/Caufield or bring in a reclamation project to give a shot in the top 6 during a 22-23 rebuild year.

It doesn't hurt the cap structure, but we just disagree on the idea that it doesn't hurt the rebuild, that's all. It's not a big problem and it's not worth paying to dump him, but I think locking him in to the top 6 for another year is sub-optimal when that development time could be given to another player.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No, I said what my plan is. It's to trade him for a late pick for whoever wants him and move on to open up the top 6 spot for Ylonen/Caufield or bring in a reclamation project to give a shot in the top 6 during a 22-23 rebuild year.

It doesn't hurt the cap structure, but we just disagree on the idea that it doesn't hurt the rebuild, that's all. It's not a big problem and it's not worth paying to dump him, but I think locking him in to the top 6 for another year is sub-optimal when that development time could be given to another player.

Drouin is not going to block a younger player IMO. We are not going to have a roster full of guys under 25.

However, if someone wants to give us a good return for Drouin, we definitely listen.

 

[LaP]

Drouin could have been had.............for peanuts. Everyone knows this.....they had to move him, for cap reasons, and his sooking style of personality. He could have been had for peanuts.....not for a potential 2-3 type of PMD kid, who had serious potential, as we were telling Markov to go Fu%$ himself, and 5 years later still haven't replaced him for gods sake....
Then................MB does exactly what he shouldn't have..........keys to the city and 33M dollars, without earning it.
Kick in the nuts to the entire team.....and he had the auducity to blame the leadership group for not buying in during the camp that season..........Markov, Rads, Emelin, Beaulieu, all gone.......in Drouin and Pickles Alzner....
2017 is THE year, Bergevin lost his mind, and was just starting the back 5 years, of his 10 year clown show....
The trade should never had been made.....................but the gamble could have been taken, using a 2nd round pick, not a very good D prospect.

It was the placating the BS franco media that told everyone, MB was NOT running the team......and he had no brain.

Actually they needed a protection slot too. They were about to lose a good player to the expansion draft. That's why the real trade is :

Sergachev + protection slot + cond 2nd round pick
for
Drouin

They were getting not only Sergachev but they did not have to protect Sergachev which was extremely valuable to them. We had plenty of protection slots we ended up protecting Jordi "i'm not my brother" Benn as well as Drouin. One of the worst trade in the team history in my book.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Drouin is not going to block a younger player IMO. We are not going to have a roster full of guys under 25.

Unless we move all of Gallagher, Toffoli, Anderson, and Hoffman he will be. I really don't know how this is debatable. Drouin has been a permanent fixture in the top 6 since he was traded to Montreal outside of a few weeks at the end of 18-19, if they keep him at 5.5M he will be a top 6 forward again in 22-23. I don't think Hoffman or Anderson are moving so the biggest plausible changes are likely Gallagher and Toffoli traded, at which point if Drouin is sticking in the top 6 with Anderson + Hoffman that pretty much by definition means he's holding on to a spot in the top 6 that could otherwise go to another player such as Ylonen or Caufield or make room for both.

I also didn't just say younger player. I said a free agent, a reclamation project, etc. Lots of options that we can try. Maybe it's a soft FA market and you can get Rakell or Niederreiter on a 1 year deal and give them a shot. Maybe some of our deadline deals involve 21/22 year old forwards coming back instead of picks or U20 prospects and we can give those guys a chance. You could find someone who's coming off an injury and give them a chance to recover and trade them at the deadline, whatever. I don't think it's a big problem and like I said I wouldn't pay to move him, but if it's possible to move him for a late pick I'd rather do that and give the minutes to someone else.

 

[Edmhabber]

I don’t get the hate surrounding Drouin. The Habs need some kind of local identity, particularly French Canadien, and yet people want to get rid of the best franco we have. A Paquette and the like does not cut it.

 

[Woland]

I don’t get the hate surrounding Drouin. The Habs need some kind of local identity, particularly French Canadien, and yet people want to get rid of the best franco we have. A Paquette and the like does not cut it.

simply put...he sucks

 

[OldCraig71]

I don’t get the hate surrounding Drouin. The Habs need some kind of local identity, particularly French Canadien, and yet people want to get rid of the best franco we have. A Paquette and the like does not cut it.

What we need are the best available players no matter where they are from. We don't need inadequate local representation, that only hurts the team.

 

[abo9]

I don’t get the hate surrounding Drouin. The Habs need some kind of local identity, particularly French Canadien, and yet people want to get rid of the best franco we have. A Paquette and the like does not cut it.

It did cut it 15 years ago when the best French players were the likes of Begin and Bouillon. Nobody cared that the best players on the team did not speak French - i was a kid the and my friends loved (and hated) Kovalev's oozing talent, Koivu's character and combativeness. Markov was the D to emulate, then later it was Subban and Gallagher that people identified with and wanted to emulate. I grew up idolizing - I did not care that he did not speak French. Bouillon and Begin were there if kids wanted to look up to local heroes - not fancy, but they were good players to look up to due to their work ethic and grit. Drouin is neither a top player or a grit and work ethic guy... he's just not that good of a playr unfortunately - has flashes but that's it. A Tomas Tatar kind of player - forgettable.

I don't hate him, but I dont see a reason to continue using him if we don't need him. He's a good pts collector but won't make you win anything. Once again, I'm thinking Tatar. Good for rounding up a top 6.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Unless we move all of Gallagher, Toffoli, Anderson, and Hoffman he will be. I really don't know how this is debatable. Drouin has been a permanent fixture in the top 6 since he was traded to Montreal outside of a few weeks at the end of 18-19, if they keep him at 5.5M he will be a top 6 forward again in 22-23. I don't think Hoffman or Anderson are moving so the biggest plausible changes are likely Gallagher and Toffoli traded, at which point if Drouin is sticking in the top 6 with Anderson + Hoffman that pretty much by definition means he's holding on to a spot in the top 6 that could otherwise go to another player such as Ylonen or Caufield or make room for both.

I also didn't just say younger player. I said a free agent, a reclamation project, etc. Lots of options that we can try. Maybe it's a soft FA market and you can get Rakell or Niederreiter on a 1 year deal and give them a shot. Maybe some of our deadline deals involve 21/22 year old forwards coming back instead of picks or U20 prospects and we can give those guys a chance. You could find someone who's coming off an injury and give them a chance to recover and trade them at the deadline, whatever. I don't think it's a big problem and like I said I wouldn't pay to move him, but if it's possible to move him for a late pick I'd rather do that and give the minutes to someone else.

I want to tank so Drouin stays.