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Johnsson and Kapanen..

saltming

saltming

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Gary Nylund said:
Worth getting Boyle, not worth it keeping JVR.

Boyle was easily worth it (to me anyway) because we hadn't made the playoffs in ages, we were in a dogfight to make it and with a team full of rookies and the weight of Maple Leafs history on their backs, making the playoffs was enormous. Also, if any team ever needed positive reinforcement than it was that team full of rookies. I think it was a watershed moment that took a ton of pressure off going into the next season, easily worth a 2nd round pick.

JVR on the other hand, we were already a playoff team so that pressure didn't exist. And of course as I have pointed out many times we were going to be a 1st round dog with or without JVR so there's that too. And of course not trading JVR cost us a helluva lot more then the 2nd round pick we paid for Boyle.
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I agree with your reasoning but I also disagree haha
To me we could have done without Boyle, though I liked getting him, as we were where we were not supposed to be whereas this year the team had higher expectations on themselves so trading JVR might have undermined their resolve.
I guess the slippry side is that both sides are right. The pros and cons of either actions are pretty balanced.
 
Boutette

Boutette

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AnishLoomba said:
they played on the 4th line when they got in the lineup and may not even play in the top-9 this upcoming season.
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Sure. Why have young low cost high value players in your top 9 when you can overpay declining geezers their gold plated retirement contracts. Its a win-win for the geezers and probably Robidas Island. Not so much for the team, though.
 

rent free

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Boutette said:
Sure. Why have young low cost high value players in your top 9 when you can overpay declining geezers their gold plated retirement contracts. Its a win-win for the geezers and probably Robidas Island. Not so much for the team, though.
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Quite a ridiculous exaggeration you just made. The team benefits because Toronto get players who are better than Johnson and kapanen that will play into the top 9.
 
Gary Nylund

Gary Nylund

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saltming said:
I agree with your reasoning but I also disagree haha
To me we could have done without Boyle, though I liked getting him, as we were where we were not supposed to be whereas this year the team had higher expectations on themselves so trading JVR might have undermined their resolve.
I guess the slippry side is that both sides are right. The pros and cons of either actions are pretty balanced.
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I could go either way on Boyle. With hindsight I think it looks good but at the time, I would have been fine with doing it or not doing it. JVR though ... I understand the optics wouldn't be good if we had traded him at the TDL so OK, fine. The smart thing to do would have been to avoid that conundrum and just ditch him before the season started. That's what I would have done anyway, get the best offer you can get and be done with it.
 
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Boutette

Boutette

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AnishLoomba said:
Quite a ridiculous exaggeration you just made. The team benefits because Toronto get players who are better than Johnson and kapanen that will play into the top 9.
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But will they be better? More likely the won't, because Johnsson and kapanen are skilled 2-way players. UFA Veterans at their skill level or better will want massive contracts. And there's cap the team won't have to improve where they need to improve. Sorry, that's a lose-lose prositions for the Leafs. The team doesn't have a future when it throws away its youth to rely on Hoglunds, Renberg's and other mediocre and expensive retirement age players because the team has to play them because they are using up so much cap. I guess you don't like the Leafs making it to the finals, because that behavior has never gotten them there in our lifetimes.
 
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rent free

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Boutette said:
But will they be better? More likely the won't, because Johnsson and kapanen are skilled 2-way players. UFA Veterans at their skill level or better will want massive contracts. And there's cap the team won't have to improve where they need to improve. Sorry, that's a lose-lose prositions for the Leafs.
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3rd line veterans won't want massively contracts and they most likely will be better than Jonson and Kap.
 
Menzinger

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AnishLoomba said:
3rd line veterans won't want massively contracts and they most likely will be better than Jonson and Kap.
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Which vets in free agency would you take over them?

I’d say the Leafs have faired better the last couple seasons when they turned to youth over vets, especially when looking at depth roles
 
saltming

saltming

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Gary Nylund said:
I could go either way on Boyle. With hindsight I think it looks good but at the time, I would have been fine with doing it or not doing it. JVR though ... I understand the optics wouldn't be good if we had traded him at the TDL so OK, fine. The smart thing to do would have been to avoid that conundrum and just ditch him before the season started. That's what I would have done anyway, get the best offer you can get and be done with it.
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We are 100% synaptico on that.
That' what I'm hoping happens with Gardiner this offseason
 
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Boutette

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AnishLoomba said:
Thomas vanek
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Interesting you like him so much. Seriously man, 8 teams in 5 years?

Only the most desperate of teams and demented general managers are willing to even spend a dime on him. After Buffalo, anyone who takes him is ridiculously motivated to give him the boot, most won't even put up with him for a full season. He's like the hockey player equivalent of a hot potato. Makes you wonder why, eh?
 

rent free

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Boutette said:
Interesting you like him so much. Seriously man, 8 teams in 5 years?

Only the most desperate of teams and demented general managers are willing to even spend a dime on him. After Buffalo, anyone who takes him is ridiculously motivated to give him the boot, most won't even put up with him for a full season. He's like the hockey player equivalent of a hot potato. Makes you wonder why, eh?
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THE number of teams he's played in doesn't mean anything so I don't know why you are using that as a point. He goes to different teams because he is a wanted asset at the deadline year in and out, meaning he is valuable.
 
Boutette

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AnishLoomba said:
THE number of teams he's played in doesn't mean anything so I don't know why you are using that as a point. He goes to different teams because he is a wanted asset at the deadline year in and out, meaning he is valuable.
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But somehow never valuable enough to ever be wanted back. Yeah, that's the exact kind of players the Leafs want:laugh:

We get it. You hate the youth movement and are dying for the Leafs to go back to being an old geezers team no matter how toxic those geezers might be. Yeah, that kind of worked a little bit 20 years ago. Doesn't work today.
 
ULF_55

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Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Marleau, Brown, Hyman, Kapanen, Johnsson, Aaltonen, Leivo, Lindholm, Grundstrom, Moore, Gauthier, Engvall

Only position of need might be a depth centerman or a 3rd. line centerman who can play up the line-up.

For those who are unaware, every year rookies play in the NHL so we'll likely see some new guys in the line-up. I'm not referring to Johnsson and Kapanen who'll both be out of the AHL this season. I expect at least one of Aaltonen or Lindholm to start the season with the Leafs. Neither are kids, and the Leafs already have 4 players capable of playing center, Matthews, Kadri, Nylander and Marleau.

I have no concerns about the forwards.

I'm am curious about where in the line-up Johnsson plays, I'd say without hesitation he's in the top 9. You don't leave that talent on the 4th. line, especially when you are replacing outgoing points with UFAs walking.

Kapanen I could see playing on any of the 4 lines, along with PK duties.

Defense ... awareness deficiencies.
 
kk87

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Both of them deserve top 9 roles right now. The speed, skill, and determination they bring plays perfectly into our system.

People always talk about the importance of an effective drafting and development program, but I feel like the development portion is often understated. These two guys are examples of players that might not be where they are currently if not for the way they were handled with the Marlies. Keefe and the entire Marlies' coaching team deserves major props for helping them transition effectively to professional hockey in North America, and clearly it's about to pay dividends for us.

These sorts of examples have to make you optimistic about players like Bracco, Engvall, Brooks, Timashov, Liljegren, Lindgren, etc - who knows what they could become with a bit of grooming in the minors?
 

rent free

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Menzinger said:
I actually like Vanek a fair amount but doubt he’d sign a one year deal. This is likely his last chance at a multi year contract and that makes him a no go for the Leafs.
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He's been getting 1 year deals for the past 2 seasons. There's a very unlikely chance, if any at all, that he gets a multi year deal.
 
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