Johnsson and Kapanen..

[HockeyGuruPitka]

No, you really can't. Nylander was integral to that line, Matthews and Hyman saw their numbers plummet without him. He's not interchangeable with a Kapanen or Johnsson.


And that happened because Seth Jones was stuck in a depth role behind other elite talents. There is no player like that available around the league. The Seth Jones comparables are not available.


Me too, hence my interest. He'd be a perfect complement to Rielly.

Curious to know if your opinion has changed in regards to Kapanen slotting next to Matthews now that Nylander wants a big contract. He played well against chi, although a very small sample. I feel like the first 3 games has really emphasised the need for serviceable top 4 defence. Especially considering theres a good chance Gardiner is leaving on the open market.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Curious to know if your opinion has changed in regards to Kapanen slotting next to Matthews now that Nylander wants a big contract. He played well against chi, although a very small sample. I feel like the first 3 games has really emphasised the need for serviceable top 4 defence. Especially considering theres a good chance Gardiner is leaving on the open market.

Both yes and no. Long answer incoming.

The need for a top 4 RD is great, I even said during the summer that not getting one would be a significant disadvantage to our chances. Hainsey just doesn't cut it. So I still think we should acquire one.

The question is still how; sending a top end asset for a known quantity is the easiest, but I don't think it's the best. Let's say that Kapanen can perform well enough with Matthews to avoid the drop in performance that we saw when he was flanked with Hyman and Brown. That makes Willy less crucial, but he is still an incredible asset. In my opinion, Willy is a top 10 RW. The only reason both he and Marner is not already viewed as such is because they have not been put into the same kind of minutes as their peers. That opinion got supported recently as they were ranked as #9 and #8 respectively in Andrew Berkshire's immense statistical evaluation project. He also pointed out that Willy would be several steps higher if it wasn't for that first half-season on a last place Leafs team.

So even though he is no longer crucial, we're still dealing with an elite talent, so we can just get any kind of complementary RD back. That would just be our own lesser version of the Hall trade, giving up way too much to (barely) address a need. So we need a comparable talent back, and that kind of talent on the back end is pretty much never available. Jones was, but that was some extreme circumstances. Some view Hamilton as that kind of talent, so it's still possible to see one available. It's the kind of thing that you can't plan for, or in any way expect. It just happens.

So our plan for acquiring such a RD will have to be in a different way. Let's go through RD options, that is players good enough even if they aren't a great fit, around the league and see how they were acquired:

Manson - Late draft pick
Montour - Mid draft pick
McAvoy - Early draft pick
Dahlin - 1st overall
Ristolainen - Early draft pick
Brodie - Late draft pick
Hamilton - Traded for perceived similar talent
Faulk - Mid draft pick
Pesce - Mid draft pick
Johnson - 1st overall
Jones - Traded for believed #1C
Larsson - Traded for franchise winger
Ekblad - 1st overall
Doughty - 2nd overall
Spurgeon - UFA prospect
Dumba - Early draft pick
Petry - Traded for cheap
Subban - Traded for believed equal #1D
Ellis - Early draft pick
Vatanen - Traded for believed equal center
Boychuk - UFA
Shattenkirk - UFA
Gostisbehere - Mid draft pick
Letang - Mid draft pick
Schultz - Reclamation project
Karlsson - Traded in extreme circumstances
Burns - Traded for three perceived good assets
Pietrangelo - 4th overall
Parayko - Mid draft pick
Strålman - UFA
Sergachev - Traded for perceived equal talent
Tanev - UFA prospect
McNabb - Expansion draft
Miller - Expansion draft
Carlson - Early draft pick
Niskanen - UFA
Trouba - Early draft pick
Byfuglien - Special circumstances

There's not a whole lot of comparables here that were just to go out and get. What this tells us is that we should look at draft and development, free agency, and if all things fail, we should acquire a forward from a team in a cap squeeze, put him as a d-man and watch him become one of the most unique players in modern NHL history.

The traded for guys here consist of:

Hamilton - The closest we get to a comparable is trading Rielly for a RD, or trading Sandin for a RD prospect.
Jones - Top end talent stuck behind elite depth, cost a player with value similar to Willy.
Larsson - One of the worst trades of the last decade.
Petry - Kind of a reclamation project that was much better than he was able to show, was acquired cheap.
Subban - We don't have Weber.
Vatanen - Barely good enough to really change things. Traded for an asset of a value that we don't quite have. We have much better, or worse.
Karlsson - Kind of doubt we see similar circumstances again for many, many years.
Burns - Interesting case. Burns was a controversial player that they got for three good assets in a trade that turned out much, much better than expected. File under "hidden value."
Sergachev - The avenue of getting a top end prospect by giving up another top end prospect. Issue here is that the top end prospect we have to give up is actually the one we want to get, Liljegren.

So basically, unless we have an elite talent stuck on a team where he'll never get a good chance, Nylander as a trade doesn't make sense. So we keep him, get his price tag down, and if Kapanen works out as well as the Chicago game hinted, we use him to give Kadri a playmate and make us even more impossible to deal with offensively. The RD acquisition has to come from elsewhere.

Edit: Oh, and speaking of Gardiner. I don't think we really need to worry. If you look at guys who have made the best cases to deserve top four minutes, we have two of them in Dermott and Borgman. Dermott was a dominant #3LD last season, and Borgman had an almost as impressive individual profile.

 

[Trapper]

Both yes and no. Long answer incoming.

The need for a top 4 RD is great, I even said during the summer that not getting one would be a significant disadvantage to our chances. Hainsey just doesn't cut it. So I still think we should acquire one.

The question is still how; sending a top end asset for a known quantity is the easiest, but I don't think it's the best. Let's say that Kapanen can perform well enough with Matthews to avoid the drop in performance that we saw when he was flanked with Hyman and Brown. That makes Willy less crucial, but he is still an incredible asset. In my opinion, Willy is a top 10 RW. The only reason both he and Marner is not already viewed as such is because they have not been put into the same kind of minutes as their peers. That opinion got supported recently as they were ranked as #9 and #8 respectively in Andrew Berkshire's immense statistical evaluation project. He also pointed out that Willy would be several steps higher if it wasn't for that first half-season on a last place Leafs team.

So even though he is no longer crucial, we're still dealing with an elite talent, so we can just get any kind of complementary RD back. That would just be our own lesser version of the Hall trade, giving up way too much to (barely) address a need. So we need a comparable talent back, and that kind of talent on the back end is pretty much never available. Jones was, but that was some extreme circumstances. Some view Hamilton as that kind of talent, so it's still possible to see one available. It's the kind of thing that you can't plan for, or in any way expect. It just happens.

So our plan for acquiring such a RD will have to be in a different way. Let's go through RD options, that is players good enough even if they aren't a great fit, around the league and see how they were acquired:

Manson - Late draft pick
Montour - Mid draft pick
McAvoy - Early draft pick
Dahlin - 1st overall
Ristolainen - Early draft pick
Brodie - Late draft pick
Hamilton - Early draft pick
Faulk - Mid draft pick
Pesce - Mid draft pick
Johnson - 1st overall
Jones - Traded for believed #1C
Larsson - Traded for franchise winger
Ekblad - 1st overall
Doughty - 2nd overall
Spurgeon - UFA prospect
Dumba - Early draft pick
Petry - Traded for cheap
Subban - Traded for believed equal #1D
Ellis - Early draft pick
Vatanen - Traded for believed equal center
Boychuk - UFA
Shattenkirk - UFA
Gostisbehere - Mid draft pick
Letang - Mid draft pick
Schultz - Reclamation project
Karlsson - Traded in extreme circumstances
Burns - Traded for three perceived good assets
Pietrangelo - 4th overall
Parayko - Mid draft pick
Strålman - UFA
Sergachev - Traded for perceived equal talent
Tanev - UFA prospect
McNabb - Expansion draft
Miller - Expansion draft
Carlson - Early draft pick
Niskanen - UFA
Trouba - Early draft pick
Byfuglien - Special circumstances

There's not a whole lot of comparables here that were just to go out and get. What this tells us is that we should look at draft and development, free agency, and if all things fail, we should acquire a forward from a team in a cap squeeze, put him as a d-man and watch him become one of the most unique players in modern NHL history.

The traded for guys here consist of:

Jones - Top end talent stuck behind elite depth, cost a player with value similar to Willy.
Larsson - One of the worst trades of the last decade.
Petry - Kind of a reclamation project that was much better than he was able to show, was acquired cheap.
Subban - We don't have Weber.
Vatanen - Barely good enough to really change things. Traded for an asset of a value that we don't quite have. We have much better, or worse.
Karlsson - Kind of doubt we see similar circumstances again for many, many years.
Burns - Interesting case. Burns was a controversial player that they got for three good assets in a trade that turned out much, much better than expected. File under "hidden value."
Sergachev - The avenue of getting a top end prospect by giving up another top end prospect. Issue here is that the top end prospect we have to give up is actually the one we want to get, Liljegren.

So basically, unless we have an elite talent stuck on a team where he'll never get a good chance, Nylander as a trade doesn't make sense. So we keep him, get his price tag down, and if Kapanen works out as well as the Chicago game hinted, we use him to give Kadri a playmate and make us even more impossible to deal with offensively.

Lesser trades are also an option.
A player like Pysyk acquired by Florida would even be a significant upgrade.
Is there a D who does not have the sexy name but is durable and dependable?
Also making sure we aren't cap poor with the salaries of Matthews/Nylander/Marner to be able to add a UFA is possible. Or should the right player, right time trade happen. Can we even afford to keep Gardiner?
He might be a polarizing player but right now we can't afford to get worse on D.
Next year we are looking at:
Rielly...Zaitsev
Dermott...Oz
Rosen/Borgman/Sandin...Lily/Holl

In 5 years I might feel better but for next season, ouch.
Notable UFAs include: Karlsson (unable due to cap)
Stralman (might be a best bet. currently makes 4.5 million. if Tampa signs Karlsson, he's out)
Nate Schmidt (sure Vegas has the edge there)
Myers

But again, what is the cap situation? Nylander coming in at 6 is imperative. Somebody has to. No team has 4 forwards ranking from 7/8 million and up each. Matthews is on his way to 11 million minimum. That's 22 for Tavares/Matthews.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Lesser trades are also an option.

Yeah. I didn't include them, but I was thinking about them as band-aid options in my head. They are not ideal solutions, but they stop the bleeding.

Some options I've looked at:
Demers - Good stop gap option, if Arizona fails this season again, could be had cheap most likely.
Andersson - Still on the outside looking in. If we target someone outside regular spots in the league, he's the guy. He's RD Dermott.
Pesce - Dream acquisition. Is on the bottom pairing right now. It all depends on what happens with Faulk. If they don't like the market for him, Pesce might be available. Should not cost Nylander.
Petry - In my opinion one of the most underrated players in the league. Short term solution, but I think price might be low compared to impact.
Pysyk/Petrovic - Either of these would be fine, and would give us a stronger defensive option than Hainsey on the right side.
Martinez - Lots of talk about how he might be done.
Boychuk - Similar to Demers.
Ceci - Yes, yes. I know. But he also checks off: Being RD, being hopelessly misused, playing on a dysfunctional team, having some characteristics that fit how we build our team. Plus, should be cheap.
Miller - I think that Vegas liked him better than most of the league already, and I think his big opportunity now might close this door. But this guy is seriously good. He's not just getting gaudy results due to easy usage.

Mostly a boring list of the usual names, but I can't think of a hidden gem that hasn't already been talked about.

But again, what is the cap situation?

Yeah, cap situation pushes us towards reclamation projects and ELCs.

 

[SprDaVE]

Yeah. I didn't include them, but I was thinking about them as band-aid options in my head. They are not ideal solutions, but they stop the bleeding.

Some options I've looked at:
Demers - Good stop gap option, if Arizona fails this season again, could be had cheap most likely.
Andersson - Still on the outside looking in. If we target someone outside regular spots in the league, he's the guy. He's RD Dermott.
Pesce - Dream acquisition. Is on the bottom pairing right now. It all depends on what happens with Faulk. If they don't like the market for him, Pesce might be available. Should not cost Nylander.
Petry - In my opinion one of the most underrated players in the league. Short term solution, but I think price might be low compared to impact.
Pysyk/Petrovic - Either of these would be fine, and would give us a stronger defensive option than Hainsey on the right side.
Martinez - Lots of talk about how he might be done.
Boychuk - Similar to Demers.
Ceci - Yes, yes. I know. But he also checks off: Being RD, being hopelessly misused, playing on a dysfunctional team, having some characteristics that fit how we build our team. Plus, should be cheap.
Miller - I think that Vegas liked him better than most of the league already, and I think his big opportunity now might close this door. But this guy is seriously good. He's not just getting gaudy results due to easy usage.

Mostly a boring list of the usual names, but I can't think of a hidden gem that hasn't already been talked about.


Yeah, cap situation pushes us towards reclamation projects and ELCs.

Andersson would probably be high on Dubas' list shopping list if available. Cost effective for a long time and very likely ready for NHL minutes with plenty of potential but also some risk that he doesn't develop as planned.

Pesce I think is pretty overrated around here but he'd definitely be a big upgrade for us. Petry would be really really good.

As for the rest of the names, I'm indifferent due to their contract situation or their quality.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Andersson would probably be high on Dubas' list shopping list. Cost effective for a long time and very likely ready for NHL minutes. Pesce I think is pretty overrated in terms of his quality but he'd definitely be a big upgrade for us.

As for the rest of the names, I'm indifferent due to their contract situation or their quality.

I used to think the same regarding Pesce, probably from the POV of having argued against giving up Willy for him, but apparently his individual metrics defensively is among the best in the league. Things like cutting off high-danger passes, winning pucks, stick checking in the defensive zone, and that kind of micro-stats. He's also a high-end transition player. His flaw is that he's just not very good in the offensive zone at all. He's similar to Tanev in that way, great defense and good transition but not much in the way of offense. But if there's one attribute we don't need on a new d-man, it's ability to translate possession to offense.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Both yes and no. Long answer incoming.

The need for a top 4 RD is great, I even said during the summer that not getting one would be a significant disadvantage to our chances. Hainsey just doesn't cut it. So I still think we should acquire one.

The question is still how; sending a top end asset for a known quantity is the easiest, but I don't think it's the best. Let's say that Kapanen can perform well enough with Matthews to avoid the drop in performance that we saw when he was flanked with Hyman and Brown. That makes Willy less crucial, but he is still an incredible asset. In my opinion, Willy is a top 10 RW. The only reason both he and Marner is not already viewed as such is because they have not been put into the same kind of minutes as their peers. That opinion got supported recently as they were ranked as #9 and #8 respectively in Andrew Berkshire's immense statistical evaluation project. He also pointed out that Willy would be several steps higher if it wasn't for that first half-season on a last place Leafs team.

So even though he is no longer crucial, we're still dealing with an elite talent, so we can just get any kind of complementary RD back. That would just be our own lesser version of the Hall trade, giving up way too much to (barely) address a need. So we need a comparable talent back, and that kind of talent on the back end is pretty much never available. Jones was, but that was some extreme circumstances. Some view Hamilton as that kind of talent, so it's still possible to see one available. It's the kind of thing that you can't plan for, or in any way expect. It just happens.

So our plan for acquiring such a RD will have to be in a different way. Let's go through RD options, that is players good enough even if they aren't a great fit, around the league and see how they were acquired:

Manson - Late draft pick
Montour - Mid draft pick
McAvoy - Early draft pick
Dahlin - 1st overall
Ristolainen - Early draft pick
Brodie - Late draft pick
Hamilton - Early draft pick
Faulk - Mid draft pick
Pesce - Mid draft pick
Johnson - 1st overall
Jones - Traded for believed #1C
Larsson - Traded for franchise winger
Ekblad - 1st overall
Doughty - 2nd overall
Spurgeon - UFA prospect
Dumba - Early draft pick
Petry - Traded for cheap
Subban - Traded for believed equal #1D
Ellis - Early draft pick
Vatanen - Traded for believed equal center
Boychuk - UFA
Shattenkirk - UFA
Gostisbehere - Mid draft pick
Letang - Mid draft pick
Schultz - Reclamation project
Karlsson - Traded in extreme circumstances
Burns - Traded for three perceived good assets
Pietrangelo - 4th overall
Parayko - Mid draft pick
Strålman - UFA
Sergachev - Traded for perceived equal talent
Tanev - UFA prospect
McNabb - Expansion draft
Miller - Expansion draft
Carlson - Early draft pick
Niskanen - UFA
Trouba - Early draft pick
Byfuglien - Special circumstances

There's not a whole lot of comparables here that were just to go out and get. What this tells us is that we should look at draft and development, free agency, and if all things fail, we should acquire a forward from a team in a cap squeeze, put him as a d-man and watch him become one of the most unique players in modern NHL history.

The traded for guys here consist of:

Jones - Top end talent stuck behind elite depth, cost a player with value similar to Willy.
Larsson - One of the worst trades of the last decade.
Petry - Kind of a reclamation project that was much better than he was able to show, was acquired cheap.
Subban - We don't have Weber.
Vatanen - Barely good enough to really change things. Traded for an asset of a value that we don't quite have. We have much better, or worse.
Karlsson - Kind of doubt we see similar circumstances again for many, many years.
Burns - Interesting case. Burns was a controversial player that they got for three good assets in a trade that turned out much, much better than expected. File under "hidden value."
Sergachev - The avenue of getting a top end prospect by giving up another top end prospect. Issue here is that the top end prospect we have to give up is actually the one we want to get, Liljegren.

So basically, unless we have an elite talent stuck on a team where he'll never get a good chance, Nylander as a trade doesn't make sense. So we keep him, get his price tag down, and if Kapanen works out as well as the Chicago game hinted, we use him to give Kadri a playmate and make us even more impossible to deal with offensively.

I agree that you shouldnt trade a guy of Nylanders capabilities unless the ideal trade scenario came to fruition (which rarely happens). Unfortunately at some point the Leafs will be facing cap implications and i am not sure we will be able to hold on to all of the core and at the same time bolster the back end. I guess this is why Dubas and company get paid the big bucks.

I've always liked Kapanens two way ability and feel like he may be better suited in tough match ups come post season. However the Leafs predicament on offence is a good problem to have, although there is a fairly dire need to improve the back end to turn this team into a true contender.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Johnson has been so disappointing it's sad. I thought he was actually going to be better of the two moving forward.
Hopefully he turns it around.

 

[OVO16]

Fun to read back on this thread now

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Johnsson will be fine. He is still very very fast. He still has some skill. He is learning NHL and how it works night in night out and it might take him a season or two to figure things out. Lots of overreaction on this thread. He looked great in scrimmages. So what he looks bad since preseason games started. He will figure it out and a night watching from the rafters will be a good kick in the *ss for him.

 

[Pucker77]

All of your thought processes for trading JVR are too simplistic. I was on the trade JVR bandwagon since it started. I said to trade JVR because his stock was high with his cheap deal and great production. I also said to keep Bozak and Komarov, not because they were key pieces but Komarov had such a bad year that nothing acquired would be worth dealing him and Bozak because the Leafs center depth would have been destroyed.

Everyone here is yelling “YOU DONT TRADE JVR FOR PICKS IN THE MIDDLE OF A CUP RUN!” As if picks was the end goal. It would not have been, at least if I was in charge.

Let me explain, the Leafs biggest need then and now is a stronger defense. Playoff teams do not often trade away top 4 defensemen just before the playoffs. You know who does? Rebuilders. But rebuilders would not be interested in a pending UFA like JVR, they would want future assets like picks and prospects.

So the Leafs should have traded JVR to a playoff team (preferably out west like ANA, SJS, or VGK) For picks and prospects. BUT then flip those picks and/or prospects for a defenseman from a rebuilder.

JVR was on average the 10th forward in terms of TOI which means only 2 forwards played less than him. His production was on the powerplay, and while I know the powerplay would take a hit, but the better speed in the lineup 5-on-5 as well as a stronger defensive player at forward plus whichever defenseman was acquired would bolster the Leafs enough to beat Boston. And possibly give Tampa a run.

 

[Field of Dreams]

I get Johnssons performance warrants some tough love, but I don't see how Lindholms play has earned a promotion at the same time.

 

[Trapper]

I get Johnssons performance warrants some tough love, but I don't see how Lindholms play has earned a promotion at the same time.

Nothing below the Matthews/Tavares line has done much of anything.
However, (without being moved around, some guys fit better with different players), it's hard to tell.
Babcock will have to address these lines soon. It's fine to say young guys have to earn it but when 2 lines just don't seem to have purpose, you have to change.
Kapanen is a good start.
Leivo has been ok but for a team that is easy to play against, I expected more cycle/board battle.
Brown seems to have stopped any kind of progression.
Johnsson is barely noticeable.
Lindholm has moments.
Ennis shouldn't be above the 3rd line.

Our support staff for the stars hasn't been great.
Our forecheck is terrible. When we have to dump it in, maybe 1 or 2 players can win it.
When we have to get the puck off the boards, we lose most of them.
When we are forced to reverse the puck around the back of the net, we are pretty much done on offense.
We are mostly a no touch offense. And then there is the D.
We need better support. How will we afford that?
We need better D. How will we afford that or acquire it?
Dubas should be busy.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I get Johnssons performance warrants some tough love, but I don't see how Lindholms play has earned a promotion at the same time.

Remember too, that for a few of these guys, this is still an audition. But yeah, as stated above, the 3rd and 4th lines just aren't meshing well at all.

 

[Damisoph]

I never understood the 20 goals that were being automatically attributed to Johnsson.

 

[DarkKnight]

I get Johnssons performance warrants some tough love, but I don't see how Lindholms play has earned a promotion at the same time.

Babs is trying to mix up the third line as well, and promoting Johnsson sends the wrong message. Babs is just trying to light a fire under Johnsson, and he was actually quite complementary today. It’s early, this is when you send messages.

 

[Field of Dreams]

Nothing below the Matthews/Tavares line has done much of anything.
However, (without being moved around, some guys fit better with different players), it's hard to tell.
Babcock will have to address these lines soon. It's fine to say young guys have to earn it but when 2 lines just don't seem to have purpose, you have to change.
Kapanen is a good start.
Leivo has been ok but for a team that is easy to play against, I expected more cycle/board battle.
Brown seems to have stopped any kind of progression.
Johnsson is barely noticeable.
Lindholm has moments.
Ennis shouldn't be above the 3rd line.

Our support staff for the stars hasn't been great.
Our forecheck is terrible. When we have to dump it in, maybe 1 or 2 players can win it.
When we have to get the puck off the boards, we lose most of them.
When we are forced to reverse the puck around the back of the net, we are pretty much done on offense.
We are mostly a no touch offense. And then there is the D.
We need better support. How will we afford that?
We need better D. How will we afford that or acquire it?
Dubas should be busy.

Sure, agree it hasnt been working, but 3 games is not alot of time for things to click.

 

[Notsince67]

Babs is trying to mix up the third line as well, and promoting Johnsson sends the wrong message. Babs is just trying to light a fire under Johnsson, and he was actually quite complementary today. It’s early, this is when you send messages.

Hoping for a breakout game for Johnsson against Dallas. Leafs need him to be good

 

[LeafFever]

Despite Johnsson's struggles (And BTW, did anyone have a longer year than him?), this thread has aged well for me.
In a cap era, you never sign a slow late 20's winger who is so one-dimensional. Use cheap young assets instead.

 

[LeafFever]

Will Kapanen and Johnsson score 36 goals combined next year to replace JVR 36 goals?

Keep in mind Marner scored 22 goals and Nylander scored 20 goals (42 goals combined) last year and 19 goals and 22 goals (41 goals combined) the previous year and they're both top-end talent and top 6 and PP players. They barely combined to surpass JVR goal production.

Are you expecting Kap and Johnny to score at that level?

Yes. Or at the very least score more than JVR's 36 goals as we know there's a great chance he never hits that # again.

 

[LeafFever]

JVR's goal scoring was .01 less goals per 60 then Matthews. Not only will Kaps or Johnsson not match this pace, nobody else on the Leafs will either.
Also a forgotten asset of JVR... he could pass the puck. What Matt Martin accomplished in a single game, Kaps hasn't accomplished in his career in that regard.
Could Kapanen or Johnsson replace Nylander's offensive output? Then why can they replace JVR's who's points/60 was higher?

Bozak has been a 2/3rd's of a Tavares his own career. Especially for an undrafted free-agent signing, that's nothing to be ashamed about. However, Leaf fans
have never forgiven him for not replacing Mats Sundin, despite him not breaking $1.5 million in salary until 2014. And I think it's very understated how well
he handled Kessel, for without Bozak, would of probably had gone cry-baby much sooner. And I also can't remember Bozak really for any huge issues in the
media either. He's been a complete gentleman. Johnsson scored below Bozak's pace, yielding 3 points in 9 games. But also consider they were scored against
Buffalo and Montreal. Game in, game out, what kind of results can you expect?

In the playoffs, they were two young exciting players that combined only managed to out-score one player who played all 7 games, an injured and checked Auston Matthews.
There's some hope that one or both of them could get into a Hyman-type role on a line that would bring up their numbers. There's potential for them to
coat-tail on someone else's performance. Who knows, maybe Babcock puts Matthews, Nylander, and Marner all on center and they all get a chance to
have a real offensive driver on their line?

Defensively, there's no comparison. Winning games, I'm all for the two youngsters. Goal-scoring wise, a good goal would be half of JVR's production combined.

Oh this post is delicious to bump-up.
This thread has aged very well.

 

[Stephen]

If we got Nylander signed to a satisfactory contract, I'd prefer to move Kapanen for a defenseman if it came to that. Reason being is his inflated value comes closer to a top 4 defenseman, whereas with Nylander you get the feeling you're getting 4 quarters for a dollar and losing value.

Johnsson looks like he won't be in line for a massive raise the way he's going this year.

 

[MyBudJT]

If we got Nylander signed to a satisfactory contract, I'd prefer to move Kapanen for a defenseman if it came to that. Reason being is his inflated value comes closer to a top 4 defenseman, whereas with Nylander you get the feeling you're getting 4 quarters for a dollar and losing value.

Johnsson looks like he won't be in line for a massive raise the way he's going this year.

I don't know... if we could sign Kapanen for 3-3.5 mil, I'd almost rather save the 3 million and keep Kapanen over Nylander... Ideally, you fit both in though...

Only way we keep both is if Dubas has a lot of confidence in our defensive depth... have a guy like Dermott replaced Gardiner, and a guy like Borgman replace Dermott.

 

[moon111]

Oh this post is delicious to bump-up.
This thread has aged very well.

I think Kapanen has done surprisingly well coat-tailing with Matthews and previous said it could be possible. Everything he's bringing to the game,
is something that Matthews is exploiting. Without someone of Matthews' stature, it doesn't happen, nor did it ever happen at any other level of game play
of his in the past. Not like this. Hell some players would be happy with Matthew's shooting percentage for their face-offs. It's like evaluating Daniel Marois
who's 75th in Leaf all-time scoring. After Vincent Damphousse, he becomes a .38 points per game player. Marios, Kapanen, ...even Kadri.
They're like a turbo providing boast that do very little on their own without an engine. Honestly I think these players
are more of testament to the strength of Damphousse, Matthews, and Marner. Think the Leafs have become very patient developing players with offensive talent
in the minors, and even further develop them on the 4th line before letting them lose. You're not going to see Leaf's with their Strat-O-Matic hockey card rating
be 4-1-4. They're going to be at least a 4-3-4. I don't see Johnsson getting a chance any time soon. He'll toil on the 4th line until he too can jump up as a more
experienced and defensively responsible player who can play both ends of the game.

 

[LeafFever]

I think Kapanen has done surprisingly well coat-tailing with Matthews and previous said it could be possible. Everything he's bringing to the game,
is something that Matthews is exploiting. Without someone of Matthews' stature, it doesn't happen, nor did it ever happen at any other level of game play
of his in the past. Not like this. Hell some players would be happy with Matthew's shooting percentage for their face-offs. It's like evaluating Daniel Marois
who's 75th in Leaf all-time scoring. After Vincent Damphousse, he becomes a .38 points per game player. Marios, Kapanen, ...even Kadri.
They're like a turbo providing boast that do very little on their own without an engine. Honestly I think these players
are more of testament to the strength of Damphousse, Matthews, and Marner. Think the Leafs have become very patient developing players with offensive talent
in the minors, and even further develop them on the 4th line before letting them lose. You're not going to see Leaf's with their Strat-O-Matic hockey card rating
be 4-1-4. They're going to be at least a 4-3-4. I don't see Johnsson getting a chance any time soon. He'll toil on the 4th line until he too can jump up as a more
experienced and defensively responsible player who can play both ends of the game.

Everything in watching Kapanen last year told me he needed more ice-time and could be a top 6 forward. He was being wasted. Our coach needed to give him more time last season.
Kapanen is being helped, but Matthews isn't carrying him. He has the skill to be a legit first line winger.