Johnsson and Kapanen..

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
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hes gonna be another beauty
I hope we get keefe on this coaching staff ,babcock doesn't bring out the best in youngsters

He’s managed pretty good with the leaf players. Since he took over, almost all his players have had career years... and have improved defensively to boot
 

Mickey Marner

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Jul 9, 2014
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Kapanen is clearly better than Martin and Johnsson is better than both. Hell, he's probably better than JVR.

Having a continuous stream of these cheap, young wingers will allow us to let guys like JVR walk when they want a big payday for the back 9 of their career. Hopefully management keeps up the good work.
 

Liminality

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Oct 22, 2008
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He’s managed pretty good with the leaf players. Since he took over, almost all his players have had career years... and have improved defensively to boot
Yeah I think it's pretty disingenuous to say Babcock has been limiting the Leafs young players.

I think Babcock loves Johnsson's hustle and tenacity with and without the puck. I'm so proud of him working through that Texas series, it was clear that they were taking cheap shots on him every chance they could to try and get him off his game. Didn't work in the end and Johnsson even showed a lot of push back.
 

LeafingTheWay

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May 31, 2014
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It's great to see Johnsson getting the respect he deserves. I remember many didn't believe how good he was before he came over to the AHL, he was phenomenal overseas as well.

I do think Kapanen is severely underrated now though, a lot of you will be surprised by his bounce-back.

After Johnsson/Kapanen make it full-time, we have:
Grundstrom, Bracco, Timashov that'll be the next 'surprise' impactful players imo.
Then guys like Engvall/Moore have strong chances of playing 4th line minutes as well.
 

Pucker77

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May 10, 2012
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You cannot trade your UFAs when you are a lock for a playoff spot.
The year the Chicago Blackhawks won their first Cup of the 3 they traded Cam Barker who was their 2nd pair LHD for Kenny Johnsson, who was on LTIR the whole time, and a recently drafted Nick Leddy.

Yes, you can trade player for future pieces. I like JVR and Bozak but I was onboard the trade JVR bandwagon all season. Bozak was having a bad year so he would not have brought much back and it would have affected the Leafs center depth. Especially with the Kadri suspension in the playoffs. But JVR could have fetched a 1st+ or prospects or something solid.

JVR's absence would have hurt on the powerplay, but 5-on-5 I feel like the Leafs would have been better off. Heck, at even strength JVR was 10th in average time on ice for forwards. Which means only 2 forwards played less. If the Leafs could have received the next Nick Leddy or something by trading their "10th most trusted forward" why would you not do it?
 
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LeafFever

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The year the Chicago Blackhawks won their first Cup of the 3 they traded Cam Barker who was their 2nd pair LHD for Kenny Johnsson, who was on LTIR the whole time, and a recently drafted Nick Leddy.

Yes, you can trade player for future pieces. I like JVR and Bozak but I was onboard the trade JVR bandwagon all season. Bozak was having a bad year so he would not have brought much back and it would have affected the Leafs center depth. Especially with the Kadri suspension in the playoffs. But JVR could have fetched a 1st+ or prospects or something solid.

JVR's absence would have hurt on the powerplay, but 5-on-5 I feel like the Leafs would have been better off. Heck, at even strength JVR was 10th in average time on ice for forwards. Which means only 2 forwards played less. If the Leafs could have received the next Nick Leddy or something by trading their "10th most trusted forward" why would you not do it?
So you give me one really weak example from 8 years ago? Cam Barker was terrible. That's not like trading JVR in his prime at all.
 

moon111

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Oct 18, 2014
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Personally, I'd be happy for another Hyman-type out of Johnsson. As for Kaps, he's sure shown some great solo offensive work. I'm not sold we've seen him do anything with others. At least yet. Someone stated he played with Plekanec. Plekanec had the 3rd highest points/60 in the playoffs for the Leafs. I can't see blaming someone who's put up 600 points in the NHL as a huge excuse for your play-making abilities. Now perhaps Kaps could produce more goals on a higher line, but if his game restricts what types of plays you'll see from his line, they'll be a lot easier to be shut down. Kapanen put up 53 assists in 115 games for the Marlies. Johnsson just put up 14 assists in 16 games in the AHL playoffs.

In the last 10 years, out of the 1481 NHL players that have put in at least 50 games in that time-frame, Kapanen is 1478th in assists.

In the entire history of the Leafs, Kaps is 458th out of 459 players for assist by players who put in at least 50 games. Tied with greats like Keith Aulie and Frazer McLaren.

Think Kapanen is just fine doing what he's doing, there's better options for the top 3 lines.
 

LeafFever

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Feb 12, 2016
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Well this thread aged well..
Would any of you honestly want to give 29 year-old JVR 8 years with Jonsson coming on the team? That's how you win in the cap era. Replace those non-elite pieces with younger, cheaper models.
 

Boutette

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Sep 28, 2017
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In the entire history of the Leafs, Kaps is 458th out of 459 players for assist by players who put in at least 50 games. Tied with greats like Keith Aulie and Frazer McLaren.

That's what happens when you are stuck on a line with noted snipers like Komarov and Plekanec. You really think anyone was going to get assists on a line with those two. You might as well have put Kapanen on a line with Mclaren and Orr for all the offensive help they would have provided. Remember when Orr was put on a line with Kadri. That really aided Kadri's asisst production, right?
 

LeafingTheWay

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Kapanen put up 53 assists in 115 games for the Marlies. Johnsson just put up 14 assists in 16 games in the AHL playoffs.

What are you trying to prove with this? Did you just compare Kappys AHL assists (majority from when he played in the AHL at 19/20 yrs old) to Johnssons playoffs AHL assists (23 year old, 16 game sample size)!? Why not compare their normal seasons?
AHL Assists:

Kapanen: 54 assists in 119 games = 0.45 assists/game
Johnsson: 55 assists in 129 games = 0.42 assists/game

???

Johnsson IMO will better offensively (look at his goal/points pace in the AHL), but the stats you used don't suit your argument at all.

Also, Kapanen is 2 YEARS YOUNGER than Johnsson. He's only 21 years old. Let him develop like Johnsson did.
In the last 10 years, out of the 1481 NHL players that have put in at least 50 games in that time-frame, Kapanen is 1478th in assists.

Why assists??? He put up a 16 goal pace (7 goals/ 38 games) on the 4th line this season, why not use that? This thread has outlined numerous times that his oish% this season (38games) was unlucky 5v5 4.9% just like Kadris/Nylanders unlucky oish% phase. Meaning unfinished plays from his teammates despite great possession/chances. It'll return to the normal like usual, don't worry.
 

Damisoph

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Jun 29, 2010
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Kapanen is clearly better than Martin and Johnsson is better than both. Hell, he's probably better than JVR.

Having a continuous stream of these cheap, young wingers will allow us to let guys like JVR walk when they want a big payday for the back 9 of their career. Hopefully management keeps up the good work.

yikes, pump the brakes on Johnsson. Yes he was fantastic this year in the AHL but I'd still take Kap over him. I think both of them have a spot on this team next year in the top 9 and no arguments about Matt Martin, hopefully Lou will take him.
 

Mickey Marner

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yikes, pump the brakes on Johnsson. Yes he was fantastic this year in the AHL but I'd still take Kap over him. I think both of them have a spot on this team next year in the top 9 and no arguments about Matt Martin, hopefully Lou will take him.

I don't think Kapanen has the IQ to be much more than he is. I think his ceiling is somewhere between cogliano and grabner. The sort of player that skates really fast in directions without having any idea why he's going there, but gets 20 breakaways a season.

Johnsson, on the other hand, always seems to be exactly where he needs to be, when he needs to be there. He's also 24 though, so he enters the NHL in his prime. Which is why I think he hits the ground running and makes people forget about JVR, who, as we speak, is probably gnawing on his green mouthguard somewhere as he glides to the bench rather than backchecking.
 

LeafFever

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That's what happens when you are stuck on a line with noted snipers like Komarov and Plekanec. You really think anyone was going to get assists on a line with those two. You might as well have put Kapanen on a line with Mclaren and Orr for all the offensive help they would have provided. Remember when Orr was put on a line with Kadri. That really aided Kadri's asisst production, right?
Yeah, Kaps has been put in a crappy situation to produce.
 

LeafingTheWay

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I know I keep repeating this but people got to get rid of their recency bias. I can't believe people are saying Kappy doesn't have hands/finishing-ability, he's great in those areas.
 

Boutette

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I know I keep repeating this but people got to get rid of their recency bias. I can't believe people are saying Kappy doesn't have hands/finishing-ability, he's great in those areas.

Maybe they can't bear to blame his old broken down linemates for the fact they couldn't keep up with them. Its sort of a timbits hockey sort of thing I guess.
 

meefer

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Jun 9, 2015
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Regardless of who is the better player, I'm just happy we have both. Each has skills I like, each is young, relatively cheap and has room to develop further.
 

LeafFever

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I actually think this sudden "Can't Finish" in regards to Kaps comes from all the hit posts in the postseason. That hardly means he cannot finish. His speed and skill is fantastic and he deserved better TOI last season.
 
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mcleex

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While they can be serviceable NHL players for us, and are cheaper replacements for JVR and Bozak, you won't be able to replace Bozaks faceoff ability with them or JVRs net presence

Who on the Leafs can provide that big body net presence now?
 

LeafFever

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While they can be serviceable NHL players for us, and are cheaper replacements for JVR and Bozak, you won't be able to replace Bozaks faceoff ability with them or JVRs net presence

Who on the Leafs can provide that big body net presence now?
True, but they can add other aspects those 2 do not provide. JVR is just ridiculously one-dimensional.
 
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saltming

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That's what happens when you are stuck on a line with noted snipers like Komarov and Plekanec. You really think anyone was going to get assists on a line with those two. You might as well have put Kapanen on a line with Mclaren and Orr for all the offensive help they would have provided. Remember when Orr was put on a line with Kadri. That really aided Kadri's asisst production, right?
Did Kadri still produce on that line? I'm pretty sure he did:huh:
 

weems

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Jul 3, 2008
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While they can be serviceable NHL players for us, and are cheaper replacements for JVR and Bozak, you won't be able to replace Bozaks faceoff ability with them or JVRs net presence

Who on the Leafs can provide that big body net presence now?

Sure but on the other hand the intensity, attention to detail, physicality and defensive ability will be greatly heightened.

Our offense might take a hit innitially but we'll be a much harder team to play against and start to install the type of structured hardworking system thats needed to go all the way.

JVR and Bozak got sheltered minutes and brought basically zero physicality or defensive ability to the game.
 

LeafFever

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Feb 12, 2016
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Sure but on the other hand the intensity, attention to detail, physicality and defensive ability will be greatly heightened.

Our offense might take a hit innitially but we'll be a much harder team to play against and start to install the type of structured hardworking system thats needed to go all the way.

JVR and Bozak got sheltered minutes and brought basically zero physicality or defensive ability to the game.
Exactly. JVR and Bozak might do 1 specific thing better, but Kapanen and Johnsson already are better overall players. They are better defensively, better speed and skill and more physical.
 

weems

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Exactly. JVR and Bozak might do 1 specific thing better, but Kapanen and Johnsson already are better overall players. They are better defensively, better speed and skill and more physical.

JVR and Bozak were quality offensive players but extremely flawed.

Very hard becoming this hardworking defensively responsible team when your 3 longest serving players either are the exact opposite (JVR/Bozak) or the one who actually can play that way looks totally finished (Komarov). The vets need to set a certain tone on rebuilding young teams especially when it comes to playing hard and paying attention to the less sexy parts of the game and JVR and Bozak didnt come close in these regards.

This team is going to play with much more intensity, speed and attention to detail next season with those three gone.
 

LeafFever

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JVR is criminally one-dimensional. Remember how people said Phil was one-diomensional? Phil is a complete 200 ft player next to JVR.
I honestly think Johnsson has a shot at scoring more goals himself next season *if* he actually gets the opportinity from Babcock. JVR might not hit 36 goals ever again at age 29.
 

Al14

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Jul 13, 2007
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I can't wait to see Babcock start our Marlies MVP on the fourth line expecting him to score his way up the lineup. Then, once he has made the jump up to scoring lines, one mistake, and back to the 4th line he goes.

If I were the coach, I would put Andreas Johnsson on a line that would allow him to score. If he can't score, then I'd move him down the lineup accordingly. I'd put him in the best possible position to succeed, not hamper him with 4th line plugs.

However, what do I know being a retired minor league coach.
 
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