Also Lundell hasnt really stood out to me too much in the NHL, not sure why Im supposed to be jealous there
Player Discussion: Johnny "Hockey" Gaudreau
- Thread starter CBJWerenski8
- Start date
Honestly I think Barkov's performance last playoffs got underrated. Tkachuk was the man clutching it, but Barkov was still getting all the tough matchups and zone starts most games/series.
I didn't mean to come off like it was all Barkov in FLA, though he's a huge piece obviously... my point was simply that Florida is not a good comparison for CBJ pro scouting, the teams are in so different spots and while I can't know, my belief is some of those guys wouldn't have been great pickups for CBJ even if they worked great for FLA. Of course it's the job of pro scouts to find the players who will work for what you need and so far it doesn't look like the CBJ have done a great job on that front but OTOH it's not been an easy team to succeed in lately.
I didn't mean to come off like it was all Barkov in FLA, though he's a huge piece obviously... my point was simply that Florida is not a good comparison for CBJ pro scouting, the teams are in so different spots and while I can't know, my belief is some of those guys wouldn't have been great pickups for CBJ even if they worked great for FLA. Of course it's the job of pro scouts to find the players who will work for what you need and so far it doesn't look like the CBJ have done a great job on that front but OTOH it's not been an easy team to succeed in lately.
44 points as a rookie, a center in his early 20s getting big responsibility and playing very mature two-way hockey in their playoff run... yeah I wouldn't mind having that guy. I don't know what he does have to do with CBJ though, it's not like he was on the board and they passed on him.
Bennett has chemistry with Tkachuk also he was ideal for Florida.
That into here we can talk as if who played endlessly.
I know it and I very wanted him. But it is question if he played good here. Scouts/staff always have to ask themselves, would he play well on the team? Does the team have the ideal teammates? Will the player sign a new contract or will he want to leave? Etc, etc.
Cyclones Rock
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Does Johnny Gaudreau have a bad contract? Pierre-Luc Dubois? Cap Court returns
It’s time for another round of Cap Court, the feature in which we put NHL contracts on trial. Just how bad are these contracts?
theathletic.com
The details: The most shocking UFA deal in recent memory has five years left after this one, with a cap hit of $9.75 million.
The case that it’s a bad contract: Gaudreau was easily the top of the 2022 UFA class, coming off a career year that saw him finish fourth in MVP voting. But his first year in Columbus was disappointing, with just 74 points. And this year is on pace to be even worse; he’ll need a late push to even crack the top 80 in league scoring. For a guy who’ll turn 31 before next season, it sure looks like the Blue Jackets paid top dollar for a player who was on the brink of a sharp decline.
The case that it might be OK: Was it top dollar? As big-name UFA deals go, this one was pretty reasonable given Gaudreau was coming off a 115-point season when he signed it. For comparison, Artemi Panarin had never scored more than 87 points when he got a deal worth nearly $2 million more per season from the New York Rangers in 2019, while John Tavares had never topped 86 when he got a similar contract from the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2018. Tavares is a center and Panarin is younger, and Gaudreau hit free agency when the cap was frozen and would be for years, but that’s still a significant discount for a marquee name.
There’s also the Columbus factor — the Blue Jackets have never exactly been considered a prime destination for talent, and sometimes those teams have to pay a little extra to sign stars. (You could make the case that Zach Werenski makes a bit too much for exactly the same reason.) Still, “we have to be willing to sign bad contracts” isn’t the same as defending those contracts.
Key witnesses: Gaudreau is the third-highest-paid left winger in the league, behind only Panarin and Huberdeau, and it’s fair to say he slots in between those two guys right now. He makes more than Kirill Kaprizov and Filip Forsberg, both of whom are younger. He’s at least outproducing Jamie Benn and Jeff Skinner, who are both just behind him on the cap hit list.
The verdict: You really don’t want to be on the hook for nearly $50 million to a 60-point winger on the wrong side of 30. But it still feels like context matters here. The Blue Jackers stink, as always, and while some of that is on Gaudreau, a playmaker can only do so much without scoring talent around him. And at the end of the day, if you’re a Columbus fan … I mean, you do this deal again, right? The best player on the market chose you, and it didn’t even cost as much as it could have. No, it hasn’t worked out, and at this point we have to accept that maybe it never will, but I don’t have the heart to call this a bad contract quite yet.
Well, I do.
It's a bad contract.The verdict: You really don’t want to be on the hook for nearly $50 million to a 60-point winger on the wrong side of 30. But it still feels like context matters here. The Blue Jackers stink, as always, and while some of that is on Gaudreau, a playmaker can only do so much without scoring talent around him. And at the end of the day, if you’re a Columbus fan … I mean, you do this deal again, right? The best player on the market chose you, and it didn’t even cost as much as it could have. No, it hasn’t worked out, and at this point we have to accept that maybe it never will, but I don’t have the heart to call this a bad contract quite yet.
Well, I do.
Obviously the team would be better without him.
Maybe someday we'll wish we didn't have his contract on the books but it's really hard to argue right now that we have a better use for the money. And this team would be excrement without him.
EspenK
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- Sep 25, 2011
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At least better in the sense of a worse record and a better chance to draft 1OA.Obviously the team would be better without him.
Maybe someday we'll wish we didn't have his contract on the books but it's really hard to argue right now that we have a better use for the money. And this team would be excrement without him.
And excrement is a good word. Like right now they are sh*t but without him they would be excrement,
Does Johnny Gaudreau have a bad contract? Pierre-Luc Dubois? Cap Court returns
It’s time for another round of Cap Court, the feature in which we put NHL contracts on trial. Just how bad are these contracts?
The details: The most shocking UFA deal in recent memory has five years left after this one, with a cap hit of $9.75 million.
The case that it’s a bad contract: Gaudreau was easily the top of the 2022 UFA class, coming off a career year that saw him finish fourth in MVP voting. But his first year in Columbus was disappointing, with just 74 points. And this year is on pace to be even worse; he’ll need a late push to even crack the top 80 in league scoring. For a guy who’ll turn 31 before next season, it sure looks like the Blue Jackets paid top dollar for a player who was on the brink of a sharp decline.
The case that it might be OK: Was it top dollar? As big-name UFA deals go, this one was pretty reasonable given Gaudreau was coming off a 115-point season when he signed it. For comparison, Artemi Panarin had never scored more than 87 points when he got a deal worth nearly $2 million more per season from the New York Rangers in 2019, while John Tavares had never topped 86 when he got a similar contract from the Toronto Maple Leafs in 2018. Tavares is a center and Panarin is younger, and Gaudreau hit free agency when the cap was frozen and would be for years, but that’s still a significant discount for a marquee name.
There’s also the Columbus factor — the Blue Jackets have never exactly been considered a prime destination for talent, and sometimes those teams have to pay a little extra to sign stars. (You could make the case that Zach Werenski makes a bit too much for exactly the same reason.) Still, “we have to be willing to sign bad contracts” isn’t the same as defending those contracts.
Key witnesses: Gaudreau is the third-highest-paid left winger in the league, behind only Panarin and Huberdeau, and it’s fair to say he slots in between those two guys right now. He makes more than Kirill Kaprizov and Filip Forsberg, both of whom are younger. He’s at least outproducing Jamie Benn and Jeff Skinner, who are both just behind him on the cap hit list.
The verdict: You really don’t want to be on the hook for nearly $50 million to a 60-point winger on the wrong side of 30. But it still feels like context matters here. The Blue Jackers stink, as always, and while some of that is on Gaudreau, a playmaker can only do so much without scoring talent around him. And at the end of the day, if you’re a Columbus fan … I mean, you do this deal again, right? The best player on the market chose you, and it didn’t even cost as much as it could have. No, it hasn’t worked out, and at this point we have to accept that maybe it never will, but I don’t have the heart to call this a bad contract quite yet.
Well, I do.
At the time, it seemed ~$9.75m AAV for a 115-point Hart Trophy finalist was a steal.
Instead, we've gotten a guy who doesn't really control the game / drive the play (like Panarin) like a top 5-10 guys in the league who's maybe maxed out at around 60 points here and is now facing whatever kind of aging curve.
Five years left on his deal after this, and if next year is a "transition year" you'll be lucky to get four years on the deal when the team is actually competing, all when he's 32+.
Cyclones Rock
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Our $9.75 million/year UFA has 11 goals this season. Tied for 7th on the CBJ.
It's taken him 76 games to reach this epic number of goals. Throwaway pick up Nylander has 10 in 19 games. Kuraly is only 2 behind Johnny G despite playing in 19 fewer games.
This deal is aging like a case of MD 20/20.
It's taken him 76 games to reach this epic number of goals. Throwaway pick up Nylander has 10 in 19 games. Kuraly is only 2 behind Johnny G despite playing in 19 fewer games.
This deal is aging like a case of MD 20/20.
I’m genuinely curious how you rank Gaudreau/Severson in the “bad contract” ranking. I’m actually curious how everyone who posts here would rank the entire team and their contracts. I guess a lot to do with JG and DS depends on K Johnson/Jiricek, and what people think of them and their future.
Gaudreau obviously isn’t used as and shouldn’t be looked at as a “goal scorer”. That said, and with how goals/points are nowadays, you still want him to be getting close to 20-25 goals playing nearly an entire season. He has the same problem the majority of both our high paid veterans and young players have, he lacks intensity.
The problem isn’t the popular answer in Jenner, it’s that we don’t have a another winger that is a great fit to go ALONG with Jenner, as we also don’t have a better option at C than him.
Gaudreau-Fantilli-Chinakhov, maybe as soon as next year works.
But, I look at this as a line that would need a defensive Jenner line to supplement it.
Voronkov-Jenner-Texier
Alex Nylander has 19,2 %SH and many goals thanks to Johnny.
Johnny is a playmaker more who prefers pass. Remember Jakub Voráček in 2921/22 season.
Cyclones Rock
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1) At this point, Gaudreau would have to be considered the worst of the two. By far.
He's the 3rd highest paid LW in the league and expectations were very high for him and he's fallen far short.
My issue with Severson is term. He's a second pairing dman with some offensive flair and has probably played pretty close to expectations. Probably not a player a good team would like on their second pair, but I could be wrong on this.
2) Completely agree on lack of intensity-and I'll add passion. It's a huge problem on this roster on the higher end. The lower end not so much. Danforth, Olivier, Texier and (I know you'll love this
) Kuraly all play with a very high intensity. As do Gudbranson, Jenner, Fantilli. Marchenko and Chinakov are ok in this department from my vantage point. Sillinger plays with appropriate enthusiasm/intensity as well.Gaudreau and-especially-Werenski lack the intensity (or what I perceive to be it is) that you'd like to have in your high end players. Laine is another without a doubt.
Vornonkov could ratchet his up a notch or two, imo. KJ the same. Severson and Pronokov are very perfunctory as well-watching them is like watching two guys put in their day at the office.
When you compare this roster from an intensity/passion standpoint with the team that beat Tampa in 2019 (not including the deadline acquistions), it's not even close. Other than Murray, Werenski and Wennberg and sometimes Jones, it was a high intensity team. A lot more fun to watch as well even outside of the W/L aspect.
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I always hate the "Bad contracts" discussion because it almost always devolves into "What have you done for me lately?" Remember this one with JT Miller: Down Goes Brown: Putting J.T. Miller's contract on trial in the return of NHL cap court
Remember how everyone said Miller's contract was an anchor, his bad attitude was killing the team and its completely immovable but until it is the Canucks were a dead team? Yeah...the same people are saying the same thing about Johnny right now.
EspenK
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His contract is terrible because of where the rest of the team is ill constructed for a player of his type. If he were on TB or Edmonton for examples with that kind of deal it wouldn't be so bad.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I find it best to compare him and his contract status to Panarin when he first joined the Rangers whenever discussions of the state of the team and timing of acquisition come up.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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johnny was so much better this year than people realized imo. made so many insane passes that his teammates couldn't finish on. like the one between the defender's legs to danforth last night.
his production suffered because the jackets have zero other players who can demand attention from the defense. roslovic doesn't move the needle (and couldn't finish), and danforth and nylander are fringe NHL players.
he also played a ton with boone, who is a good player, but imo they're not a great fit together. johnny needs another skilled, creative player in the middle. here's what jack han said about it.
Jenner's strengths as a player (size, speed, physicality) match up well with Gaudreau's weaknesses, but CBJ38 is not an ideal partner for CBJ13.
Off the rush, Jenner sprints middle and immediately makes for the front of the net. Gaudreau is better-served playing withs someone he can play give-and-go with. The winger's goalscoring has collapsed in the absence of a center who can get him the puck in space.
Ice9
Registered User
If I'm the new GM a good, long sit down with him is nearly heading my list. Get him to open up and find the guy some line mates and let them gel.
Like Werenski, and many of our other players, offense isn’t really a problem with Gaudreau.
We need him to bring a more consistent intensity/effort level on the ice and in the defensive zone.
As more than a few people predicted, while one is a “passer” and the other is a “shooter”, they are way too similar as players, as the Laine-Gaudreau combo has been a disaster and has NEVER been an overall positive impact on the team, playing on the same line or just as the 2 highest paid and most played forwards.
We need him to bring a more consistent intensity/effort level on the ice and in the defensive zone.
As more than a few people predicted, while one is a “passer” and the other is a “shooter”, they are way too similar as players, as the Laine-Gaudreau combo has been a disaster and has NEVER been an overall positive impact on the team, playing on the same line or just as the 2 highest paid and most played forwards.
there are three ways you can define "positive overall impact" here:
- winning their minutes (positive goal share)
- outperforming their teammates (relative stats)
| Player 1 | Player 2 | 5v5 GF% |
| Laine on ice | Gaudreau on ice | 51.12% |
| Laine on ice | w/o Gaudreau | 53.85% |
| Gaudreau on ice | w/o Laine | 39.02% |
| No Laine | No Gaudreau | 33.63% |
when laine and gaudreau were both on the ice in 22-23 at 5v5, they had a positive goal share. when neither were out there, they were outscored nearly 2-to-1 at 5v5.
laine was slightly better without gaudreau, but gaudreau was significantly worse without laine.
so, not only did that combination objectively create a positive overall impact (by both definitions), but it was also the optimal usage for gaudreau.
factually speaking, it was far from being a 'disaster' even if, at times, it looked clunky.
No matter your opinion on him, a healthy Laine back to being around a PPG is crucial for CBJ's offense.
And where do you factor in their salary and percentage of the cap they take up….?? I’ll wait. Should a person paid 400% more produce 400% more?
Factually speaking, they’ve been SHIT together and BOTH have not been a positive addition when looking at the big picture.
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