Proposal: John Eichel for both of OTT's 1st rd picks today (pre-lottery)

[GOilers88]

I hate being the guy looking at a username and assuming, but that would be completely different statement coming from a Penguins fan compared to an Oilers fan. Not that the Oilers had competent management until now, but they tanked over and over and proved you cant guarantee a winner that way.

Obviously the Oilers have not done well with a half decade of high picks, but the Penguins sold off Jagr, Kovalev, Samuelsson, and Straka which paved the way for Fleury, Malkin, Staal, and Crosby.

The Sabres, IMO, didnt tank properly. They did for McDavid and settled for Eichel, tried immediately via free agency/trades, then realized they weren't ready and went for Dahlin, tried immediately via free agency/trades, and boom were not ready again. they have one superstar, one soon to be superstar, some horrible old player contracts, and a bunch of meh depth. That is not the recipe for success.

I keep saying it and no one has an answer, but what now? I guess the plan is to hope Cozens fits in perfectly at 2C and it revives Skinner. You have a decent 3rd line that is offensively anemic, but solid defensively. The defense is pretty bad, but were hoping Dahlin turns that around single handedly. Goaltending...well crap.

I say this because I'm an Oilers fan. Watching the team attempt in vain to build a winner with McDavid has resulted in them missing the playoffs in 3 of his 4 years. But when people talked about trading him or Drai for a haul to help fill out a better team you realise the absolute futility in it. When you suck with McDavid and Drai or Eichel and Dahlin, you're not going to get better by trading McDavid and Drai or Eichel and Dahlin.

We've had to sit back for almost two decades and watch inept management bungle every season and vet away whatever good players they had and all it accomplished was a whole lot of wheel spinning. That's the exact difference between Pittsburgh and Edmonton/Buffalo. They had/have a management team that can competently build and tool around their best players, not by constantly trading them and hoping to draft more. Crosby didn't start out on a great team, they built one around him and Malkin. Imagine if they had traded one of them in the first couple of seasons to round out the roster since they weren't getting it done right away.

Believe me I understand the pain. But until a good management team is brought in there's absolutely nothing anyone can do but watch and support regardless. Imagine how Ottawa fans feel. They actually have a somewhat decent team in place, are able to draft and develop some pretty good talent consistently without top five picks every year, and the owner pisses it all away negating any good that comes, but how do you change that? You can't, so long as the shotcallers remain shotcallers.

I'd also like to add that just because I'm an Oilers fan doesn't mean I can't acknowledge other teams poor management and decisions. It doesn't somehow void the opinion. The thread on the Pegula ownership reign is a pretty interesting read with some valid points.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I say this because I'm an Oilers fan. Watching the team attempt in vain to build a winner with McDavid has resulted in them missing the playoffs in 3 of his 4 years. But when people talked about trading him or Drai for a haul to help fill out a better team you realise the absolute futility in it. When you suck with McDavid and Drai or Eichel and Dahlin, you're not going to get better by trading McDavid and Drai or Eichel and Dahlin.

We've had to sit back for almost two decades and watch inept management bungle every season and vet away whatever good players they had and all it accomplished was a whole lot of wheel spinning. That's the exact difference between Pittsburgh and Edmonton/Buffalo. They had/have a management team that can competently build and tool around their best players, not by constantly trading them and hoping to draft more. Crosby didn't start out on a great team, they built one around him and Malkin. Imagine if they had traded one of them in the first couple of seasons to round out the roster since they weren't getting it done right away.

Believe me I understand the pain. But until a good management team is brought in there's absolutely nothing anyone can do but watch and support regardless. Imagine how Ottawa fans feel. They actually have a somewhat decent team in place, are able to draft and develop some pretty good talent consistently without top five picks every year, and the owner pisses it all away negating any good that comes, but how do you change that? You can't, so long as the shotcallers remain shotcallers.

I'd also like to add that just because I'm an Oilers fan doesn't mean I can't acknowledge other teams poor management and decisions. It doesn't somehow void the opinion. The thread on the Pegula ownership reign is a pretty interesting read with some valid points.

I wish I could only talk with you back and forth on here. I really appreciated the post.

To go back to the Penguins, in Crosbys year 1, they were pretty bad and turned it around quick in year 2 surprisingly. And obviously they've been as close as you can get to a dynasty since. But, to compare to the Sabres specifically and how the Penguins could look different if given the same circumstances:

To summarize, you are the Penguins GM/Owner looking into the 10-11 season with 0 playoff appearances and 0 Cups in the last 5 seasons:

- Malkin never becomes MVP Malkin (Reinhart) or you traded away Malkin for nothing (ROR) - whichever way you want to look at it
- For comparisons sake and I realize we think Dahlin will be better, you have Letang still (Dahlin)
- Your prospect pool is pretty meh. Not awful, but no real hope coming outside of what you hope to be a 2C who may end up a 3C (Cozens)
- You signed or inherited some pretty bad deals that could turn around, but if realistic, isn't likely given their age and positions on the team (Okposo - 3 more years at $6M. Skinner - 7 more years at $9M)
- And just to kick you in the nuts more, you haven't addressed your goaltender situation since drafting your franchise player (Eichel) so you've had a revolving door of average goalies instead of a future HHOFer in Fleury.
- You are now 5 years into Crosby's career and 23rd overall is the closest you've come to sniffing the playoffs.

Now what?

That is what is difference with the Sabres. The Oilers aren't much further ahead, but that 1 playoff season and seemingly this season finally really turning it around, they still are ahead.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

What is the story about why he is called Jack if his name doesn't even have Jack in it according to Wikipedia?

The Wikipedia article isn't totally accurate. His full name is actually John Jack Joseph Jimmy Jeffrey Jebediah Eichel. Any of those names can be used interchangeably with John.

 

[GOilers88]

I wish I could only talk with you back and forth on here. I really appreciated the post.

To go back to the Penguins, in Crosbys year 1, they were pretty bad and turned it around quick in year 2 surprisingly. And obviously they've been as close as you can get to a dynasty since. But, to compare to the Sabres specifically and how the Penguins could look different if given the same circumstances:

To summarize, you are the Penguins GM/Owner looking into the 10-11 season with 0 playoff appearances and 0 Cups:

- Malkin never becomes MVP Malkin (Reinhart) or you traded away Malkin for nothing (ROR) - whichever way you want to look at it
- For comparisons sake and I realize we think Dahlin will be better, you have Letang still (Dahlin)
- Your prospect pool is pretty meh. Not awful, but no real hope coming outside of what you hope to be a 2C who may end up a 3C (Cozens)
- You signed or inherited some pretty bad deals that could turn around, but if realistic, isn't likely given their age and positions on the team (Okposo - 3 more years at $6M. Skinner - 7 more years at $9M)
- And just to kick you in the nuts more, you haven't addressed your goaltender situation since drafting your franchise player (Eichel) so you've had a revolving door of average goalies instead of a future HHOFer in Fleury.
- You are now 5 years into Crosby's career and 23rd overall is the closest you've come to sniffing the playoffs.

Now what?

That is what is difference with the Sabres. The Oilers aren't much further ahead, but that 1 playoff season and seemingly this season finally really turning it around, they still are ahead.

Man I understand immensely where you're coming from. Say Pittsburgh did experience what Buffalo is experiencing, I don't believe you would have seen one of Malkin or Crosby traded. I think trading players like that is a death wish and career killer.

The similarities to Edmonton are uncanny. You really hope that the potential threat of a guy like Eichel or McD saying "f***it I'm out" is enough to force an owner to really look at the big picture and make the appropriate changes so you can keep the best guys for your team. But as shown with Edmonton, that didn't really mean anything as the owner allowed the same group of morons to bring in 5 different regimes which all failed in the same spectacular ways which really drove the point home (for me at least) that it didn't matter who they traded for or drafted, the endless cycle of shit was going to continue because the guys at the top didn't know what the hell they were doing.

And while I really appreciate Ken Holland I know deep down that even if he does help steer us back to some glory, that Daryl Katz absolutely lucked his way into it and that this organization would still be better served having different hockey minds at the top of the chain. They could just as easily still be sitting here waving goodbye to McDavid because he finally got sick of the mass stupidity which puts us right back to where we've been for 20 years. Looking for ways to trade our best players for a good haul that we'll just screw up again.

I really do want to see Buffalo succeed, and I really do want to see Eichel leading the charge cause the dude is a gem.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Buffalo pays his July 1st bonus, and takes Bobby Ryan, now we're making a stew.

In all seriousness, I don't think the Senators are close enough to make that kind of move. Value is more than fair if the lottery system is going to be the one that can result in those picks being 5/6. At that point, both sides would be gambling on the return ending up a certain way. If the picks end up at 5/6, Ottawa makes out like bandits, if one of the picks ends up at 1, Ottawa would lose the trade purely based on how valuable Lafreniere's ELC will be to Buffalo.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Absolutely no way from Ottawa.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Man I understand immensely where you're coming from. Say Pittsburgh did experience what Buffalo is experiencing, I don't believe you would have seen one of Malkin or Crosby traded. I think trading players like that is a death wish and career killer.

The similarities to Edmonton are uncanny. You really hope that the potential threat of a guy like Eichel or McD saying "f***it I'm out" is enough to force an owner to really look at the big picture and make the appropriate changes so you can keep the best guys for your team. But as shown with Edmonton, that didn't really mean anything as the owner allowed the same group of morons to bring in 5 different regimes which all failed in the same spectacular ways which really drove the point home (for me at least) that it didn't matter who they traded for or drafted, the endless cycle of shit was going to continue because the guys at the top didn't know what the hell they were doing.

And while I really appreciate Ken Holland I know deep down that even if he does help steer us back to some glory, that Daryl Katz absolutely lucked his way into it and that this organization would still be better served having different hockey minds at the top of the chain. They could just as easily still be sitting here waving goodbye to McDavid because he finally got sick of the mass stupidity which puts us right back to where we've been for 20 years. Looking for ways to trade our best players for a good haul that we'll just screw up again.

I really do want to see Buffalo succeed, and I really do want to see Eichel leading the charge cause the dude is a gem.

McDavid at least has his Draisaitl. Eichel has a very poor mans version in Reinhart (or Skinner if you think he has a chance of rebounding). I am predicting and wont be surprised when Eichel requests a trade out and obviously his value to the Sabres drops dramatically when that happens.

That is my rational behind trading him or at least entertaining it. We aren't winning with him and we have no idea how to build around him, so why not explore the last possible option? Ship him out.

 

[NewEraGM]

Jack Eichel for Habs 1st 2020 + Habs 1st 2021 + Kotkaniemi + Primeau + Suzuki

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Jack Eichel for Habs 1st 2020 + Habs 1st 2021 + Kotkaniemi + Primeau + Suzuki

That is just quantity>quality and I love Kotkaniemi. What makes this interesting is the possibility of the Sabres having potentially 1-2-3 in this years awesome draft.

Yes its a mystery box for a proven superstar, but the idea of going for it is interesting to at least consider, even if you opt to keep the superstar and continue down the current path.

 

[NyQuil]

I also happen to think that Jack Eichel is right up there in terms of his talent level in the league.

A few considerations though:

1. Is the timing appropriate? I think the Senators are at least two to three seasons away from a comfortable playoff spot. That leaves how many seasons for Eichel under his current contract? Three or four?

2. Once Eichel is moved once, it's not so hard for him to leave again. I believe there's sort of a drafted team advantage for retaining a player in terms of being comfortable where you start your career and the uncertainty associated with moving to another team.

Having moved once (to Ottawa), what's to prevent him from leaving again when he hits UFA, either for more money (which is more than likely), or to live in his home country or some desirable destination, or to get away from Melnyk?

I think Ottawa has a greater chance of retaining players that they drafted and developed.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

I also happen to think that Jack Eichel is right up there in terms of his talent level in the league.

A few considerations though:

1. Is the timing appropriate? I think the Senators are at least two to three seasons away from a comfortable playoff spot. That leaves how many seasons for Eichel under his current contract? Three or four?

2. Once Eichel is moved once, it's not so hard for him to leave again. I believe there's sort of a drafted team advantage for retaining a player in terms of being comfortable where you start your career and the uncertainty associated with moving to another team.

Having moved once (to Ottawa), what's to prevent him from leaving again when he hits UFA, either for more money (which is more than likely), or to live in his home country or some desirable destination, or to get away from Melnyk?

I think Ottawa has a greater chance of retaining players that they drafted and developed.

Fair points. Assuming he is traded today, he has the remainder of this season plus 6 more seasons at $10M AAV. Sure he could leave in 6 years if he is unhappy, but that is still 6 years.

The Senators have one of the best up and coming prospect pools in the league, which of course is only going to compliment the young stars they already have in Chabot and Tkachuk. I think they're in a great spot either way. Eichel makes them competitive today. Whoever the two drafts picks are may take 2-3 years to develop.

No choice is bad for them IMO. More about patience and sadly considering Melnyk's insane mind.

 

[Merrrlin]

I also happen to think that Jack Eichel is right up there in terms of his talent level in the league.

A few considerations though:

1. Is the timing appropriate? I think the Senators are at least two to three seasons away from a comfortable playoff spot. That leaves how many seasons for Eichel under his current contract? Three or four?

2. Once Eichel is moved once, it's not so hard for him to leave again. I believe there's sort of a drafted team advantage for retaining a player in terms of being comfortable where you start your career and the uncertainty associated with moving to another team.

Having moved once (to Ottawa), what's to prevent him from leaving again when he hits UFA, either for more money (which is more than likely), or to live in his home country or some desirable destination, or to get away from Melnyk?

I think Ottawa has a greater chance of retaining players that they drafted and developed.

Great points.

Eugene better get hopping, year 1 of UNPARALLELED SUCCESS is approaching quickly.

 

[NyQuil]

Great points.

Eugene better get hopping, year 1 of UNPARALLELED SUCCESS is approaching quickly.

I’m so excited!

 

[Seachd]

How Jack is equal to John. I get Will and Bill and Rob and Bob, but Jack and John don't even sound the same.

Jack - Wiktionary