I agree. This team has a great young core emerging and a few pieces added could really see this team trend upwards in a hurry, especially under a new coach. Unfortunately I see management as too stubborn and indecisive to properly propel the team forward with said moves. It's no longer just the small group of posters on HF noticing the poor coaching performance, the national media (and now some local) are pointing the finger directly at coaching. However, rather than make appropriate change the Jets will probably stubbornly double down on the current situation and extend Maurice. Chevy really has to do some things right this summer to renew my faith that he can move the team forward. And by do things right, I am implying that he needs to do "something" other than just draft and wait. Problem areas need addressed. Goaltending, defense and coaching. This team should contend very soon, it's time to start making the moves to get us there.
Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 16-17 Part XVI
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I agree. This team has a great young core emerging and a few pieces added could really see this team trend upwards in a hurry, especially under a new coach. Unfortunately I see management as too stubborn and indecisive to properly propel the team forward with said moves. It's no longer just the small group of posters on HF noticing the poor coaching performance, the national media (and now some local) are pointing the finger directly at coaching. However, rather than make appropriate change the Jets will probably stubbornly double down on the current situation and extend Maurice. Chevy really has to do some things right this summer to renew my faith that he can move the team forward. And by do things right, I am implying that he needs to do "something" other than just draft and wait. Problem areas need addressed. Goaltending, defense and coaching. This team should contend very soon, it's time to start making the moves to get us there.
That's kind of the feeling I have with both Little and Wheeler. I can't see them wanting to sign for less than they are making now. They are going to feel they are owed given how much we relied on them. And I don't fault them for that. We have had them on sweetheart contracts worth far less then they have given us.
- Jun 10, 2014
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In last night's game they were seriously bad in the 1st. Maybe we could console ourselves that they were being dominated by the reigning SC champions. But the Jets are supposed to be both fast and quick. They were neither. They were slow and sluggish. They didn't start to play until they were down by 2. This happens a lot.
Coach didn't have them ready to play? How does that happen? What could he have done to get them 'unready'? They were coming off their first win after a 4 game losing streak. They should have come out flying. Can it be just that they are a young team? Then why were the veterans playing like they had buckets of sand on their feet?
For the last 2 periods they were dominating a very good team in the other teams barn. Might have been score effects in the 2nd but not in the 3rd. If Maurice could get them to play like that most of the time we wouldn't be questioning him at all - and we'd be in the play-offs.
So does Mau's coaching work when they do it right or do the players overcome his coaching when they are trailing and pushing? I really don't know but there is something very wrong with this team and I don't think it is the players.
Something as simple as having picked up Barberio and Halak on waivers and I'd be happy with our roster. I would still question some of the lineup decisions but the roster would be good by any standard.
If those 2 roster changes had been made would we have turned this season around? Or would coaching still be holding us back? IMO we would still be Jekyll and Hyde and going nowhere.
I think that the "national media" discussions about coaching have very little to do with how the Jets should proceed. I've been plenty critical of Maurice over the past couple of seasons, but I think that the "national media" bandwagon should be irrelevant to how the Jets evaluate their coaching situation.
Why haven't the national media dumped all over Lindy Ruff or Jon Cooper? If anything, the Stars and Lightning have been far more disappointing this season than the Jets, and both of those teams are clearly built for "now", whereas the Jets are still more of a "tomorrow" team.
I'm generally of the view that an organization should determine what types of players and style they want to play, and then have everyone on board with that over a sustained period of time. Jumping from one coach to another based on short-term results doesn't appeal to me at all. That doesn't mean that the Jets shouldn't carefully evaluate whether Maurice is the right coach to take this roster forward. I have real concerns that he might not be the right coach, just as the Pens needed to switch to Sullivan who had a better idea about how to coach that skilled team.
Despite a lot of my critique of Maurice in the past, I'm still firmly on the fence about whether to give him the chance to see if he can mold this team into a winner. He has certainly transitioned in terms of his player usage from previous seasons, perhaps due to pressure from management or perhaps insights from Kompon and others. However, we need to see if this team can give us performances like last night more consistently before letting him steer this team forward.
Actually, I think you are giving the Jets' players too much of a pass on this. If they can dominate in the 2nd and 3rd, why not the 1st? Coaches have much less influence on how a team comes out in a game than many seem to think.
When I watched the game last night, my sense was that the Pens play at a pace much higher than many opponents that the Jets face, and it took them a bit by surprise. It's not as though the coach wouldn't have told them about this, but players need to get into a game and realize that they need to crank it up a notch. This is where you need your leaders to establish the pace and stay consistent with it. With so few vets, the Jets also need their young players to realize that they need to take the initiative and play pedal to the metal from the drop of the puck, instead of having the vets ramp them up.
Having said that, I am concerned that Maurice still coaches a bit "reactively". So often you hear him talk about how they need to play to keep up to or match the opposition. Instead, he needs to instill the fact that the Jets are going to dictate the play, and the other team is going to have to adapt. The Jets are developing the kind of skill and depth that should allow them to impose their superiority more often. This season, I think that they might have been constrained in doing that by having erratic defensive play and spotty goaltending so that they have been chasing way too many games. Even when they come out strong, there have been too many games where the other team gets the first goal or two because of a defensive breakdown and / or easy goal.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Updated some numbers. Then I combined (averaged) player depth positions based on performance of DTM's WAR model and Dom's Game Score model.
Gives a good shot of where the Jets do well/poorly and need help:
Gives a good shot of where the Jets do well/poorly and need help:
Updated some numbers. Then I combined (averaged) player depth positions based on performance of DTM's WAR model and Dom's Game Score model.
Gives a good shot of where the Jets do well/poorly and need help:
Very interesting.
Basically, strong up front, and weak on D. Add Connor and Roslovic to the mix in the next couple of seasons and the Jets have talent and depth. It reinforces the notion that the Jets will likely need to move forward talent for D talent.
I understand the reason for Morrissey's ranking, but I don't see him staying as a 4.5 for very long. I think he'll be in the 3-4 range, at a minimum, going forward.
Enstrom has been a disappointment, but an Enstrom-Myers pairing would be very okay for a 3rd pair.
I think that the Jets need another 3-4 LD to solidify that core, as has been noted. I'd be okay with a young D with solid 3-4 upside, though it would be risky if the Jets want to really make a splash next season.
- Jun 10, 2014
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I've been waffling about Maurice for quite a while, I think mostly coming down on the side of liking him as coach. Two recent things finally pushed me off the fence.
One was the garbage love for that still Pavlecian goalie. In 8 games he was good for 1 game + 1 period of another. The rest was ..... Pavelcian. But all we heard was "timely saves" and "the team plays better in front of him" BS. Absolute pure double L bull.
Maurice always speaks with an eye to the effect of what he says more so than being genuine. That's my opinion but surely everyone has seen it by now. So maybe he didn't mean what he was saying. Maybe it was PR or meant to pump up Pav and the team. But he went way over my BS tolerance.
The other was the bolded above. He said that with no way it was said for effect. That was the real thing, I believe. Crossed another line for me.
Games like last night make me question my decision again, but if it was up to me he would have been fired as soon as they got home from Colorado. So I wouldn't have had last night's opportunity to second guess myself.
I'm certain that PM will be back next year. He will probably be extended before the season starts. I'd put money on 2 years. So I will have more opportunity to change my mind.
I have to think that he will be on a short leash next season in spite of the 2 year extension. He will need a very good excuse if they get off to a bad start.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Updated some numbers. Then I combined (averaged) player depth positions based on performance of DTM's WAR model and Dom's Game Score model.
Gives a good shot of where the Jets do well/poorly and need help:
Time for some armchair GM'ing as I have some time.
The story for the future is the same as we always thought.
Goaltending
Despite his struggles and dissapointments, Hellebuyck is still trending as the best Jet goalie ever. He could be something special or he could not be... still at the very least he's a step in the right direction.
Jets need another goalie with him though. Pavelec is not good enough. Hutchinson is looking very much likely to be the same.
Defense
Same thing I've been saying since Hainsey left. Jets have a big hole on the left side. The right side really doesn't need any changes. (FYI: Myers typically hovers between #4-5 in these numbers)
A right side of Byfuglien, Trouba, and Myers/Postma is honestly good enough to be a contender. The only problem for the future is Myers is expensive (not as bad in salary though). Postma is a cheaper solution with relatively similar positive impact but you need to figure out a trade destination for Myers then.
The left side is a mess. If I were a betting man and were to place a bet on their numbers next year, I'd guess Morrissey develops into about a #3 and Enstrom will have the tinniest of bump back up to a #4.5. Neither Chiarot or Stuart are capable NHL regulars though. Place Stuart through waivers and have Chiarot as a capable #7.
The Jets don't need to hit a home run on the left side then. They just need to get someone relatively similar range as Morrissey or Enstrom, but preferably closer to Morrissey's age than Enstrom. This means the Jets could be a bit cheaper in terms of what assets they lose or could even look in free agency as a stop gap.
If they are somewhere between a #3-4.5, the Jets defensive depth looks like this:
#3-#1
#NewGuy-#1.5
#4.5-#5
#6.5
Combination of development, one bonafide 2nd pairing defender or 2nd/3rd pair tweener and the Jets move from ugly depth to play off calibre depth.
Forwards
Depending on the status of Mathieu Perreault, the Jets should be set in their top-six. Ehlers, Scheifele, and Laine should take steps forward next season, especially Laine. Laine's scoring is great but his two-way numbers have a lot of room for improvement, which just makes it how scary he could be in the future.
The Jets bottom six could be better. They have depth and pieces unlike in the past, aside from 2014-15, but are not quite there yet.
The ALM line has been fun but as some have noted here they are more of an elite grinding fourth line than a third line. (As an aside I think really Lowry and Armia should have their results averaged out to being two 3rd liners)
Personally I'd like the Jets to emulate a bit of what Penguins or Capitols do: one scoring bottom six line and one good shot differential grinding line. Between Dano, Petan, Kyle Connor, and Jack Roslovic, I think they have the pieces for the sheltered scoring line. The ALM line continues what it does well, although will lose a bit more ice time with the other line being much better than the previous alternative.
Of course their is the potential loss of any piece(s) traded for the LHD spot and the expansion draft. Those, depending on how ready Connor and Roslovic are, will need to be replaced but I think it should be available through smart work within free agency.
Time for some armchair GM'ing as I have some time.
The story for the future is the same as we always thought.
Goaltending
Despite his struggles and dissapointments, Hellebuyck is still trending as the best Jet goalie ever. He could be something special or he could not be... still at the very least he's a step in the right direction.
Jets need another goalie with him though. Pavelec is not good enough. Hutchinson is looking very much likely to be the same.
Defense
Same thing I've been saying since Hainsey left. Jets have a big hole on the left side. The right side really doesn't need any changes. (FYI: Myers typically hovers between #4-5 in these numbers)
A right side of Byfuglien, Trouba, and Myers/Postma is honestly good enough to be a contender. The only problem for the future is Myers is expensive (not as bad in salary though). Postma is a cheaper solution with relatively similar positive impact but you need to figure out a trade destination for Myers then.
The left side is a mess. If I were a betting man and were to place a bet on their numbers next year, I'd guess Morrissey develops into about a #3 and Enstrom will have the tinniest of bump backs to a #4.5. Neither Chiarot or Stuart are capable NHL regulars though. Place Stuart through waivers and have Chiarot as a capable #7.
The Jets don't need to hit a home run on the left side then. They just need to get someone relatively similar range as Morrissey or Enstrom. This means the Jets could be a bit cheaper in terms of what assets they lose or could even look in free agency.
If they are somewhere between a #3-4.5, the Jets defensive depth looks like this:
#3-#1
#NewGuy-#1.5
#4.5-#5
#6.5
Combination of development, one bonafide 2nd pairing defender or 2nd/3rd pair tweener and the Jets move from ugly depth to play off calibre depth.
Forwards
Depending on the status of Mathieu Perreault, the Jets should be set in their top-six. Ehlers, Scheifele, and Laine should take steps forward next season, especially Laine. Laine's scoring is great but his two-way numbers have a lot of room for improvement, which just makes it how scary he could be in the future.
The Jets bottom six could be better. They have depth and pieces unlike in the past, aside from 2014-15, but are not quite there yet.
The ALM line has been fun but as some have noted here they are more of an elite grinding fourth line than a third line. (As an aside I think really Lowry and Armia should have their results averaged out to being two 3rd liners)
Personally I'd like the Jets to emulate a bit of what Penguins or Capitols do: one scoring bottom six line and one good shot differential grinding line. Between Dano, Petan, Kyle Connor, and Jack Roslovic, I think they have the pieces for the sheltered scoring line. The ALM line continues what it does well, although will lose a bit more ice time with the other line being much better than the previous alternative.
Of course their is the potential loss of any piece(s) traded for the LHD spot and the expansion draft. Those, depending on how ready Connor and Roslovic are, will need to be replaced but I think it should be available through smart work within free agency.
Bang on, from my perspective.
This should be framed and pasted on Chevy's office door and walls, his refrigerator at home, and his cottage boathouse door.The D is a bit expensive, and could become very expensive if the Jets go with Enstrom and Myers on the 3rd pair and get a market-value #3-4. But perhaps the Jets should "go for it" and splurge on D next season while they have a plethora of good forwards on great value contracts. Enstrom comes off the books after next season, in any case.
The MLA line has been fun, but I think Matthias has to be seen as a bit of a placeholder at this point. Dano would be a better option, and if you play that line as a 4th line I think that a player like Copp could hold the fort with Lowry and Armia as a grinding/checking line. Here's an option (without Perreault due to XD)....
Ehlers-Scheifele-Laine
Dano/Connor-Little-Wheeler
Connor/Dano-Petan-Armia
Copp/Matthias-Lowry-Roslovic
Time for some armchair GM'ing as I have some time.
The story for the future is the same as we always thought.
Goaltending
Despite his struggles and dissapointments, Hellebuyck is still trending as the best Jet goalie ever. He could be something special or he could not be... still at the very least he's a step in the right direction.
Jets need another goalie with him though. Pavelec is not good enough. Hutchinson is looking very much likely to be the same.
Defense
Same thing I've been saying since Hainsey left. Jets have a big hole on the left side. The right side really doesn't need any changes. (FYI: Myers typically hovers between #4-5 in these numbers)
A right side of Byfuglien, Trouba, and Myers/Postma is honestly good enough to be a contender. The only problem for the future is Myers is expensive (not as bad in salary though). Postma is a cheaper solution with relatively similar positive impact but you need to figure out a trade destination for Myers then.
The left side is a mess. If I were a betting man and were to place a bet on their numbers next year, I'd guess Morrissey develops into about a #3 and Enstrom will have the tinniest of bump back up to a #4.5. Neither Chiarot or Stuart are capable NHL regulars though. Place Stuart through waivers and have Chiarot as a capable #7.
The Jets don't need to hit a home run on the left side then. They just need to get someone relatively similar range as Morrissey or Enstrom, but preferably closer to Morrissey's age than Enstrom. This means the Jets could be a bit cheaper in terms of what assets they lose or could even look in free agency as a stop gap.
If they are somewhere between a #3-4.5, the Jets defensive depth looks like this:
#3-#1
#NewGuy-#1.5
#4.5-#5
#6.5
Combination of development, one bonafide 2nd pairing defender or 2nd/3rd pair tweener and the Jets move from ugly depth to play off calibre depth.
Forwards
Depending on the status of Mathieu Perreault, the Jets should be set in their top-six. Ehlers, Scheifele, and Laine should take steps forward next season, especially Laine. Laine's scoring is great but his two-way numbers have a lot of room for improvement, which just makes it how scary he could be in the future.
The Jets bottom six could be better. They have depth and pieces unlike in the past, aside from 2014-15, but are not quite there yet.
The ALM line has been fun but as some have noted here they are more of an elite grinding fourth line than a third line. (As an aside I think really Lowry and Armia should have their results averaged out to being two 3rd liners)
Personally I'd like the Jets to emulate a bit of what Penguins or Capitols do: one scoring bottom six line and one good shot differential grinding line. Between Dano, Petan, Kyle Connor, and Jack Roslovic, I think they have the pieces for the sheltered scoring line. The ALM line continues what it does well, although will lose a bit more ice time with the other line being much better than the previous alternative.
Of course their is the potential loss of any piece(s) traded for the LHD spot and the expansion draft. Those, depending on how ready Connor and Roslovic are, will need to be replaced but I think it should be available through smart work within free agency.
Pretty much the exact same thing I'm thinking. Some crafty work, some development and some experience and we can be a playoff team in time.
CaptainChef
Registered User
Updated some numbers. Then I combined (averaged) player depth positions based on performance of DTM's WAR model and Dom's Game Score model.
Gives a good shot of where the Jets do well/poorly and need help:
And Myers.....
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Myers doesn't have any sample sufficient enough to be given a value. I pointed out he waivers between 4-5 mostly.
Evil Little
Registered User
- Jan 22, 2014
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Updated some numbers. Then I combined (averaged) player depth positions based on performance of DTM's WAR model and Dom's Game Score model.
Gives a good shot of where the Jets do well/poorly and need help:
Matches my eye test.
(So it must be wrong, then.
)
DeepFrickinValue
Formally Ruffus
- May 14, 2015
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DeepFrickinValue
Formally Ruffus
- May 14, 2015
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Wonder if Connor could be traded for juolovi or sergachev?
Odds of prying hanafin from Carolina?
Odds of prying hanafin from Carolina?
If we finish in spot where we draft Hischier or Patrick I see a deal that could be worked out.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
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I would try to trade with Colorado. We are a cheap/austere team, so this fits the mold.
I would trade Lemieux to Colorado, he won't be a minor league star for us, and with the wingers we have he is going to have to fight for playing time. Throw in Hutch.
In return we get Pickard and Wiercoch. Wiercoch is the kind of defenseman we need. Reliable, good on the PK.
We can protect Pickard in the expansion draft, by offering one Perreault, Dano, or Myers. What we build is a goaltending duo for years to come.
I would trade Stafford sooner than later, or at least sit him until we do, so he is doesn't get injured for the 3rd or 4th we fetch.
Defense becomes
Wiercoch-Buff
Morrissey-Trouba
Stuart-Postma
Enstrom takes Stuart's spot when healthy. Poolman is signed to compete with Postma. Myers, probably sits unless we are in contention down the stretch.
Forwards
Perreault-Scheif-Laine
Ehlers-Little-Wheeler
Matthias-Lowry-Armia
Tanev (for PK)-Copp-Dano
Though I would like to see Maurice play Lowry with Scheif and Laine sometime, he would change the dynamic of that line with a physical forecheck and net presence.
Move Copp to 3C, and Perreault down to 4. Different look.
Petan stays with the team. Can fill in a lot of holes. Watching a game or two might help him see things better
I would keep Thorburn here,unless he wants a chance to win elsewhere, in which case i'd give Lipon a chance.
I would trade Lemieux to Colorado, he won't be a minor league star for us, and with the wingers we have he is going to have to fight for playing time. Throw in Hutch.
In return we get Pickard and Wiercoch. Wiercoch is the kind of defenseman we need. Reliable, good on the PK.
We can protect Pickard in the expansion draft, by offering one Perreault, Dano, or Myers. What we build is a goaltending duo for years to come.
I would trade Stafford sooner than later, or at least sit him until we do, so he is doesn't get injured for the 3rd or 4th we fetch.
Defense becomes
Wiercoch-Buff
Morrissey-Trouba
Stuart-Postma
Enstrom takes Stuart's spot when healthy. Poolman is signed to compete with Postma. Myers, probably sits unless we are in contention down the stretch.
Forwards
Perreault-Scheif-Laine
Ehlers-Little-Wheeler
Matthias-Lowry-Armia
Tanev (for PK)-Copp-Dano
Though I would like to see Maurice play Lowry with Scheif and Laine sometime, he would change the dynamic of that line with a physical forecheck and net presence.
Move Copp to 3C, and Perreault down to 4. Different look.
Petan stays with the team. Can fill in a lot of holes. Watching a game or two might help him see things better
I would keep Thorburn here,unless he wants a chance to win elsewhere, in which case i'd give Lipon a chance.
voyageur
Hockey fanatic
- Jul 10, 2011
- 9,467
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I believe Dudley is in their organization too. He knows our team. Little is the kind of player the Canadiens really need, without sacrificing their team for Duchesne. Plekanec is no longer a dominant defensive player, and his offense has waned. Little would excel in Montreal with their style of play.
I think we would have to take salary back. Beaulieu might look good paired with Buff or Postma. He's a good skater with an edge. Add Juulsen and we have some defensive depth.
The only reason I see us trading Little is that we want to give Roslovic the room to move up the depth chart, competing with Petan. I don't think that bodes well long term, but at some point the Jets need more defensive depth. I would say that Little and Trouba are the players Chevy is going to get the most offers for. I hope Chevy gives his leaders a chance to win next year, by strengthening weaknesses. I hope Little is a part of that leadership or else we may not have the experience to lead us next season.
Petan and Enstrom get it done
Do you think Petan and Enstrom would get us juolovi from the Canucks .
They get a d they need to protect but a forward they don't plus it puts another Swedish player in their lineup.
Do you think Petan and Enstrom would get us juolovi from the Canucks .
They get a d they need to protect but a forward they don't plus it puts another Swedish player in their lineup.
I would say it is fairly obvious. Duchene is 3 years younger, signed longer and has a considerable career PPG advantage.
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