Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: Called Up 11/10/17

[CycloneSweep]

I understand in fans' eyes you're only as good as your recent games. And Jesse's game declined towards the end, but a part of the blame has to go to McLellan, too. Last spring that was almost a concensus here.

You can blame me for overselling Jesse, it's okay, but by the end of 2018 he'd played 22 games and scored 8+3 in them. He was also +9 and his goal production rates were among the best in the NHL, despite him not having any PP time at that time.

The problems started later, and I believe McLellan had many tools to prevent at least some of it. At least he could've done something to feed his confidence, whether that's keeping him longer with players that he'd synced with, using him properly on the PP or not putting him to the 4th line on his wrong side.

I've read e.g. about the Jets, where some young players have said they've loved the way they've been allowed to grow through mistakes. I hope a combination of Jesse developing, speaking better English, and the new assistant coaches brings a better combination and this time Jesse could go on like he started the last season. Now I'll step aside (from writing) for at least a few weeks again.

Puljujarvi doesn't show the effort or hustle to be allows to play thru mistakes. Its not the mistakes, it's the pure lack of effort.

 

[GameChanger]

Puljujarvi doesn't show the effort or hustle to be allows to play thru mistakes. Its not the mistakes, it's the pure lack of effort.

I can't comment on the end of the season as I didn't watch that many games then, but he definitely did sometime earlier last season and the beginning of this season. There's plenty of similar thoughts here so it's not just me thinking like that. I don't want to seem stubborn with my view and I won't try to change your mind so I will leave this here. But according to what I did see and what I read his performance dropped towards the end of the season.

I think our opinions seem further apart from each other as I watched more games at the start of the season and last season, and thus base my opinions pretty much on them, and you on the other hand may be more affected by the last months, which would be more than natural.

 

[MoneyGuy]

I mean....he is a legit third liner right now. Guy doesn't produce or bring enough yet to be a legit second liner

Good thing he's only 20 and the player Pulju two years out isn't who we see today.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Good thing he's only 20 and the player Pulju two years out isn't who we see today.

I know. I was more disagreeing with the comment that he is a second liner now. He isn't yet. Doesn't mean he can't be.

 

[GameChanger]

I know. I was more disagreeing with the comment that he is a second liner now. He isn't yet. Doesn't mean he can't be.

I'm sorry for this one more message (against what I just said). I see the issue in a bit different way. In my opinion Jesse showed that when he gets to play in the top6 and when his confidence is good he can already be worth it. At least most people here (and Edmonton Journal) seemed to think he was among the best players during the first 15-20 games.

But I agree that Jesse didn't finish his season at that level and he has work left to do. Some coaches believe in keeping a promising young player in a top6 or PP position even if they are on the edge of deserving it or sometimes even don't do. Some think that if the player does better there (compared to the lower lines) it helps the team more, and some believe that'll develop the player and feed his confidence, which will help the team in the longer run.

I think a coach like that would turn Pulju into a star sooner than some think, but so far TM hasn't been that one, which is why it might be best for everyone to trade Jesse away. Unless TM changes or Jesse finds and especially keeps long enough (!) that extra gear to force himself up.

 

[nabob]

Puljujarvi doesn't show the effort or hustle to be allows to play thru mistakes. Its not the mistakes, it's the pure lack of effort.

Really? His excellent backchecking efforts and goals scored in high traffic areas don't show a player who lacks effort. It maybe a lack of understanding the NHL game due to a lack of good coaching.

 

[BudBundy]

Puljujarvi doesn't show the effort or hustle to be allows to play thru mistakes. Its not the mistakes, it's the pure lack of effort.

Thats odd. I cannot remember a single incident when I saw a lack of hustle.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Gregor and Struds are on the Pulju bandwagon big time this afternoon. Making basically the same excellent points some of us are saying.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Really? His excellent backchecking efforts and goals scored in high traffic areas don't show a player who lacks effort. It maybe a lack of understanding the NHL game due to a lack of good coaching.

Fair.
When he was slumping he didn't seem to do...anything different or push it or anything. Seemed quite content.

Could definitely be coaching or lack of understanding for sure

 

[SomeDudeOTI]

People need to chill on both sides, I agree.

Us detractors need to take a deep breath and not see Yakupov. And his supporters need to stop saying he is going to be a legit elite 1st line guy.

The story of JP as an example for almost every topic on HFOil

 

[Drivesaitl]

Thats odd. I cannot remember a single incident when I saw a lack of hustle.

The player consistently fails to even go to the net. Theres no bigger fail than not even trying to go to the goal for a rebound or pick up some garbage around the net.

This player is so passive he floats through not only entire shifts but entire games.

I don't speak Puljujarvi, and never have, but I'm not seeing much of an NHL player here. I don't think he has a mind for the NHL game either. Just looks completely lost out there.

I'm still wondering, and always ask, what exactly this player is supposed to be good at. When you have to ask after this much NHL games played you gotta wonder.

I don't think he ever puts together an NHL game.

 

[guymez]

In the NHL, little mostly due to mismanagement. I don't think he's lost the potential that made him a third-ranked player in his draft. I think he's a second-liner.

Actually I was expecting you to post some evidence of Jesse having 1st line potential. Something substantial that supported your position.
At this point he isnt even a 2nd liner. He is a 3rd liner with 2nd line potential.
He plays too tentatively and far too inconsistently IMO. He also skates hard into his own zone and then does nothing.
Its low hanging furit to blame coaching....I dont see much at all wrong with how Jesse was used. He needs to assert himself and make the coach give him minutes. He isnt doing that so far.

If Jesse is the player you seem to believe that he is then he should easily be able to play himself off of the 3rd line. next season.

 

[BudBundy]

The player consistently fails to even go to the net. Theres no bigger fail than not even trying to go to the goal for a rebound or pick up some garbage around the net.

This player is so passive he floats through not only entire shifts but entire games.

I don't speak Puljujarvi, and never have, but I'm not seeing much of an NHL player here. I don't think he has a mind for the NHL game either. Just looks completely lost out there.

I'm still wondering, and always ask, what exactly this player is supposed to be good at. When you have to ask after this much NHL games played you gotta wonder.

I don't think he ever puts together an NHL game.

Thats a play style issue rather than an effort issue. He isnt avoiding contact or puck battles out there. European players often have to wrap their heads around going to the net without the puck as it runs contrary to their Olympic ice surface instincts. You are right to be worried about his hockey sense. I share the same concern. He may just not recognize times when the best play is to go to the net. His willingness to backcheck and engage in board work doesnt lead me to believe he has an effort issue. Maybe i’m wrong. I’m not in the room. But I just dont see the lack of effort you are damning him over.

 

[SK13]

Thats odd. I cannot remember a single incident when I saw a lack of hustle.

I think that poster my be confusing confusion with lack of will. I think PJ sometimes doesn't quite get what he is supposed to do.

Nail Yakupov comparisons are way off base. Nail's problem was and is that he has the hockey sense of a brick wall. He skated for miles and never did anything. Puljujarvi has had better shifts, demonstrated better cycles and the ability to give and go in one year than I've seen from Nail combined in his entire career.

There IS a good player here. I don't think he tracks to be a star player, but some outliers have followed this curve, so who knows.

 

[aspin3]

I think that poster my be confusing confusion with lack of will. I think PJ sometimes doesn't quite get what he is supposed to do.

Nail Yakupov comparisons are way off base. Nail's problem was and is that he has the hockey sense of a brick wall. He skated for miles and never did anything. Puljujarvi has had better shifts, demonstrated better cycles and the ability to give and go in one year than I've seen from Nail combined in his entire career.

There IS a good player here. I don't think he tracks to be a star player, but some outliers have followed this curve, so who knows.

Intersting last half of this article: https://www.tsn.ca/high-flying-kuznetsov-has-caps-one-win-away-from-first-stanley-cup-1.1103420
I think there are some applications to JP and the curve not being the same for everyone and what the comfort of the language and confidence does for the player.

 

[PulYou]

Intersting last half of this article: https://www.tsn.ca/high-flying-kuznetsov-has-caps-one-win-away-from-first-stanley-cup-1.1103420
I think there are some applications to JP and the curve not being the same for everyone and what the comfort of the language and confidence does for the player.

I think You are absolutely right with Your assessment here about comfort and confidence. To me this is what Pulju has been missing, how Kuznetsov is putting it here: "For me, it’s a big confidence to have that positive emotion to feel more comfortable off the ice.”

I think "smiling" Pulju's success is very much about confidence and emotion. Two examples from last season. He was clearly exited from the good Feedback he got from playing at the outdoor rink with the two local kids. As "a feel good" result he was selected a first star in the Vancouver game. Later same spring he got to spend some time with his Finnish friends Sebastian Aho and Teuvo Teräväinen. In good spirits he had 1G + 1A that night.

And McLellan is totally clueless. He is whispering to media about Pulju's immaturity and happy go lucky nature. The boy has been living on his own since he was 13 years old. He is not that immature, he just isn't from same mold as many are...

 

[frag2]

I think You are absolutely right with Your assessment here about comfort and confidence. To me this is what Pulju has been missing, how Kuznetsov is putting it here: "For me, it’s a big confidence to have that positive emotion to feel more comfortable off the ice.”

I think "smiling" Pulju's success is very much about confidence and emotion. Two examples from last season. He was clearly exited from the good Feedback he got from playing at the outdoor rink with the two local kids. As "a feel good" result he was selected a first star in the Vancouver game. Later same spring he got to spend some time with his Finnish friends Sebastian Aho and Teuvo Teräväinen. In good spirits he had 1G + 1A that night.

And McLellan is totally clueless. He is whispering to media about Pulju's immaturity and happy go lucky nature. The boy has been living on his own since he was 13 years old. He is not that immature, he just isn't from same mold as many are...

People saying he's 'immature' isn't exactly off. IMO, I think JP still see's hockey as a 'game' rather than a job. Once he starts playing more aggressive, assertive, and generating results, you'll get less of these types of criticisms.

 

[Little Fury]

I'm still wondering, and always ask, what exactly this player is supposed to be good at. When you have to ask after this much NHL games played you gotta wonder.

I don't think he ever puts together an NHL game.

93 games played. Pump the brakes, eh.

 

[guymez]

Yup...lets pump the brakes on proclaiming that Jesse is a player with first line potential.
Some tangible progression as a 20 year old would be a good start.

 

[GameChanger]

Yup...lets pump the brakes on proclaiming that Jesse is a player with first line potential.
Some tangible progression as a 20 year old would be a good start.

I understand a lot of different opinions, also yours just about every time, but have a hard time understanding there's something wrong in believing and saying Jesse has first line potential. After all, we're talking about just the potential, and a difficult spring semester shouldn't mean that potential is suddenly gone.

In February everything was still fine. At the beginning of January more than fine. Then he had a few difficult months, where his game dropped but where the way he was handled wasn't ideal either, and IMO certainly played a part, too.

Jesse was a dominating player as a junior, and he's showed some flashes in the NHL, but he needs to be able to take new steps to make that his baseline level. Whether that happens in the Oilers remains to be seen, but the potential doesn't go away this quickly.

 

[guymez]

I understand a lot of different opinions, also yours just about every time, but have a hard time understanding there's something wrong in believing and saying Jesse has first line potential. After all, we're talking about just the potential, and a difficult spring semester shouldn't mean that potential is suddenly gone.

In February everything was still fine. At the beginning of January more than fine. Then he had a few difficult months, where his game dropped but where the way he was handled wasn't ideal either, and IMO certainly played a part, too.

Jesse was a dominating player as a junior, and he's showed some flashes in the NHL, but he needs to be able to take new steps to make that his baseline level. Whether that happens in the Oilers remains to be seen, but the potential doesn't go away this quickly.

Its fine to believe it but what available evidence is there so far that makes that statement true?

Based on his NHL career so far he is a 3rd line player so its much more realistic and reasonable to suggest that he is a player with 2nd line potential...why is that so hard to swallow for some?

It is possible to like the player but still look at his body of work through a realistic lens.

 

[Little Fury]

Yup...lets pump the brakes on proclaiming that Jesse is a player with first line potential.
Some tangible progression as a 20 year old would be a good start.

He certainly has the tools to be a top line player, there's no question in my mind about that. Not sure why it's unimaginable to think a player who has just turned 20 would have some development left.

 

[nabob]

The player consistently fails to even go to the net. Theres no bigger fail than not even trying to go to the goal for a rebound or pick up some garbage around the net.

This player is so passive he floats through not only entire shifts but entire games.

I don't speak Puljujarvi, and never have, but I'm not seeing much of an NHL player here. I don't think he has a mind for the NHL game either. Just looks completely lost out there.

I'm still wondering, and always ask, what exactly this player is supposed to be good at. When you have to ask after this much NHL games played you gotta wonder.

I don't think he ever puts together an NHL game.

I think you have Paajarvi mixed up with Puljujarvi. Almost all of his goals were scored in high traffic areas.

 

[guymez]

He certainly has the tools to be a top line player, there's no question in my mind about that. Not sure why it's unimaginable to think a player who has just turned 20 would have some development left.

You are all about evidence....no?
Then surely you agree that based on the available evidence its just not likely that Jesse is a first line player in waiting.

I mean I agree that Jesse has some development left...thats absolutely true. We arent talking about that....we are talking about his ceiling as an NHL player.

I simply havent seen enough to suggest that he is a first line player in waiting. Have you? If so please do point it out for me. I am not a closed book on this player but I do need more than hopes and wishes at this point.

I would love to see Jesse grab the bull by the horns and knock it out of the park this season. I really would but it seems to me that he is going to have to redefine himself as a player and play with some bite, use his physical tools and impose his will. I just havent seen much of anything that suggests this is going to happen.

The smiling easy going Jesse is fun and all but I think it would be much more helpful for him to play with a bit of a chip on his shoulder.

 

[GameChanger]

Its fine to believe it but what available evidence is there so far that makes that statement true?

Based on his NHL career so far he is a 3rd line player so its much more realistic and reasonable to suggest that he is a player with 2nd line potential...why is that so hard to swallow for some?

It is possible to like the player but still look at his body of work through a realistic lens.

I think I understand different opinions pretty well, and am nowadays trying to do a better job with making that clear enough. But I don't think it's fair to say us believing in Jesse's potential would be somehow less realistic than the ones saying there is no first line potential. Take a look at the way many guys here thought about him after some 15-20 games, at least at that time people thought there was that first line potential.

If a player has a junior and FEL background like Jesse does, and when there are some games where he's even the best player on the ice and looks terrific, at just 19, I just wouldn't say there is no 1st line potential.

Whether that potential realizes (and in the Oilers) is another story and remains to be seen. I have no problem if some believe that potential will never realize. Just my view and with all the respect...