Jared Cowen: Future top 4 dman or just a man bun aficionado? [MOD Warning: Post 393]

[Micklebot]

Was nothing short of awesome the first 5 games. Was being his usual physical dominating self, shutting down the opposition using his huge reach, massive wingspan and impressive skating ability. He was moving the puck very well in those games as well. Looked head and shoulders above guys like Ceci, Wiercioch, Boro.

Last couple games haven't been nearly as good, but considering that the entire defense (including a Norris trophy winner) has been awful lately it's probably smart not to draw any major conclusions.

For whatever reason, I find when he plays with Boro, his passing looks worse. Might be because he's expecting to move it to a Right handed D Partner, but for whatever reason it extends to when he passes to a forward as well.

I want him back with Wideman tbh. Boro is hard not to like with his workethic, but I just don't think he and Cowen make a good tandem for anything but holding on for dear life and PK.

 

[mcnorth]

Cowen has not been as good, but he's been much better than Boro. Boro is not an asset for trades, though. But Boro seems to get a lot of love, the puppy dog vote b/c everything is gravy from that kid, but Boro has been our worst D-man in his own zone the last little bit (if you don't include Norris trophy winners and captains). PW and Ceci have calmed a bit - looked better against Cgy.

 

[topshelf15]

Cowen has not been as good, but he's been much better than Boro. Boro is not an asset for trades, though. But Boro seems to get a lot of love, the puppy dog vote b/c everything is gravy from that kid, but Boro has been our worst D-man in his own zone the last little bit (if you don't include Norris trophy winners and captains). PW and Ceci have calmed a bit - looked better against Cgy.

Boro is the one that has to play his offside ,PW should be his partner on the 3rd pairing

 

[Micklebot]

Boro is the one that has to play his offside ,PW should be his partner on the 3rd pairing

No thanks. Boro on his offside with Wier doesn't make me confident.

I'd rather see one of them out for Wideman.

 

[God Says No]

The problem is that half of our D struggles against fast, and aggressive forechecking teams. I think this is why you see Cowen struggling the last couple games. Both teams were pretty quick. Creating a lot of pressure on our D. He definitively needs Wideman as his partner (or someone like him) to offset his shortcomings. How long will it take the coaching staff to realize this?

 

[topshelf15]

No thanks. Boro on his offside with Wier doesn't make me confident.

I'd rather see one of them out for Wideman.

Boro is a rhd

 

[God Says No]

Boro is a rhd

Huh? He's LHD, but playing mostly on his off-side (the right hand side) this year.

 

[topshelf15]

Huh? He's LHD, but playing mostly on his off-side (the right hand side) this year.

Then that really makes no sense,my anger has just doubled WTF is PW doing still playing

 

[BrawlFan]

Then that really makes no sense,my anger has just doubled WTF is PW doing still playing

The real question is who sits when Phillips is back? Judging by it right now it would have to be either Cowen or PW

 

[topshelf15]

The real question is who sits when Phillips is back? Judging by it right now it would have to be either Cowen or PW

Cowen for the most part has played well ,but playing him an offside Boro hasnt done him any favors while,they need to sit Weircoch period .He is the issue, put Boro on his natural side with Ceci .Wideman with cowen

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Cowen for the most part has played well ,but playing him an offside Boro hasnt done him any favors while,they need to sit Weircoch period .He is the issue, put Boro on his natural side with Ceci .Wideman with cowen

I agree Cowen has played quite well overall, with the exception of the first period against Calgary.

IMO Boro is the weakest D on the team, however with the way PW has played it makes Boro look like a better option, but that likely isn't the case.

I do believe Murray should consider bringing up a D from Bingo if things don't improve in the near term.

Claesson or Fraser might make a good partner for Ceci.

 

[topshelf15]

I agree Cowen has played quite well overall, with the exception of the first period against Calgary.

IMO Boro is the weakest D on the team, however with the way PW has played it makes Boro look like a better option, but that likely isn't the case.

I do believe Murray should consider bringing up a D from Bingo if things don't improve in the near term.

Claesson or Fraser might make a good partner for Ceci.

Boro played with Ceci in bingo and they both preformed quite well.Too bad our coaches and management seem to want to force PW into becoming a better dman ,all while hurting the team while doing this

 

[Holdurbreathe]

The problem is that half of our D struggles against fast, and aggressive forechecking teams. I think this is why you see Cowen struggling the last couple games. Both teams were pretty quick. Creating a lot of pressure on our D. He definitively needs Wideman as his partner (or someone like him) to offset his shortcomings. How long will it take the coaching staff to realize this?

All the D has been struggling, some just worse than others and IMO the problem is the lack of sound team defense and a consistent lack of compete.

There isn't a defense in the league that doesn't struggle when the forwards don't work hard and compete in the D-zone.

 

[God Says No]

Claesson or Fraser might make a good partner for Ceci.

God no. This is exactly what I was talking about. We can't afford another lumbering, slow, can't keep the puck on a stick defenseman.

All the D has been struggling, some just worse than others and IMO the problem is the lack of sound team defense and a consistent lack of compete.

There isn't a defense in the league that doesn't struggle when the forwards don't work hard and compete in the D-zone.

Not sure about that. I think it boils down to skill and speed. Our D is still slow and unskilled with the puck. Replace Boro, Cowen, and to a lesser degree Wier, with guys who can move the puck and you'll see a huge difference. But that is easier said than done.

I don't see the forwards not competing. What I see is the defensive guys struggling to get to the puck. Half the time they do get the puck, they fumble it or make a bad pass, or they ice it.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Boro played with Ceci in bingo and they both preformed quite well.Too bad our coaches and management seem to want to force PW into becoming a better dman ,all while hurting the team while doing this

The AHL isn't the NHL and Boro's weaknesses are magnified 10 fold at the NHL level.

While Boro is extremely hard to dislike due to his physical play and determination, his lack of puck skills make him a very difficult partner to play with in puck retrieval and D-Zone exits.

Boro's game is almost entirely based on his physical play, but frankly the rest of his game isn't NHL caliber and every statistic bears this out as does the eye test.

I appreciate he is playing on his off-side, which in my opinion verges on the ridiculous, but it really doesn't change Boro's limitations as an NHL D-man.

IMO if PW can't find his game soon, then Murray needs to make a trade or call up a D from Bingo.

 

[topshelf15]

The AHL isn't the NHL and Boro's weaknesses are magnified 10 fold at the NHL level.

While Boro is extremely hard to dislike due to his physical play and determination, his lack of puck skills make him a very difficult partner to play with in puck retrieval and D-Zone exits.

Boro's game is almost entirely based on his physical play, but frankly the rest of his game isn't NHL caliber and every statistic bears this out as does the eye test.

I appreciate he is playing on his off-side, which in my opinion verges on the ridiculous, but it really doesn't change Boro's limitations as an NHL D-man.

IMO if PW can find his game soon, then Murray needs to make a trade or call up a D from Bingo.

Creativity and puck handling are not we need him to provide while playing with Ceci .Ceci handles the puck Boro does what he does best play stay at home defense

 

[Holdurbreathe]

God no. This is exactly what I was talking about. We can't afford another lumbering, slow, can't keep the puck on a stick defenseman.



Not sure about that. I think it boils down to skill and speed. Our D is still slow and unskilled with the puck. Replace Boro, Cowen, and to a lesser degree Wier, with guys who can move the puck and you'll see a huge difference. But that is easier said than done.

I don't see the forwards not competing. What I see is the defensive guys struggling to get to the puck. Half the time they do get the puck, they fumble it or make a bad pass, or they ice it.

In all due respect it seems you say one thing then contradict yourself with another.

Wiercoich has to be the slowest D on the team and while he may have more puck skill than Boro for example, it isn't worth much since he can't win a battle to gain puck control to demonstrate his skill.

Secondly players like Wiercoich, Wideman, and EK get owned against big physical players that establish net presence, therefore there needs to be a balance in terms of the skillsets.

EK-Methot and Cowen-Wideman have that balance IMO, the Wiercoich and Ceci pairing does not.

While Fraser or Claesson may not be the answer, they couldn't possible be worse in the D-Zone than PW has been so far.

In terms of the teams defensive zone play, if you only see the D struggling and fumbling the puck I think you are just being overly critical of the D.

I see game in and game out forwards in the D-Zone not getting position for an outlet pass, forwards making bad passes, forwards not winning puck battles and forwards leaving the zone too early creating gap control problems.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Creativity and puck handling are not we need him to provide while playing with Ceci .Ceci handles the puck Boro does what he does best play stay at home defense

I agree Boro could provide the physical presence Ceci needs, yet I believe Ceci, like EK and Wideman, needs a partner with reasonable puck handling skills that IMO Boro doesn't possess at this point in time.

However I am not against giving it a try but don't think it is a long term solution.

 

[Micklebot]

I agree Boro could provide the physical presence Ceci needs, yet I believe Ceci, like EK and Wideman, needs a partner with reasonable puck handling skills that IMO Boro doesn't possess at this point in time.

However I am not against giving it a try but don't think it is a long term solution.

But.... you suggested Fraser as an option. Really can't see that as any better than Boro.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

But.... you suggested Fraser as an option. Really can't see that as any better than Boro.

Admittedly the only reason I mentioned Frazer is the fact he has some NHL experience.

I also admit that I don't believe Boro has been a very effective D for the Sens, physicality aside.

Advanced stats suggest Boro ranks last of the Sens D for the last two seasons, with the exception of Phillips.

While I am not a big advanced stats guy, they do align with what I believe I have been seeing with Boro.

So expecting Boro to move into the top 4 and be an improvement for Ceci is a bit of wishful thinking IMO.

Made me wondered about the logic of replacing the D ranked 6 with the D ranked 7th statistically and expect major change, so I suggested Claesson or Frazer.

Ideally Cowen would step into Wiercoich's spot, but I sense the Senators are going to keep him on the 3rd pairing regardless and just allow him to establish his game and confidence.

 

[WhiteLight*]

Admittedly the only reason I mentioned Frazer is the fact he has some NHL experience.

I also admit that I don't believe Boro has been a very effective D for the Sens, physicality aside.

Advanced stats suggest Boro ranks last of the Sens D for the last two seasons, with the exception of Phillips.

While I am not a big advanced stats guy, they do align with what I believe I have been seeing with Boro.

So expecting Boro to move into the top 4 and be an improvement for Ceci is a bit of wishful thinking IMO.

Made me wondered about the logic of replacing the D ranked 6 with the D ranked 7th statistically and expect major change, so I suggested Claesson or Frazer.

Ideally Cowen would step into Wiercoich's spot, but I sense the Senators are going to keep him on the 3rd pairing regardless and just allow him to establish his game and confidence.

Boro > Fraser AINEC

There's no saving yourself form this lol



Fraser has the motor skills and hockey sense of a beer leaguer. Man is he ever bad

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Move it on over to the new JC thread:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1975119