Player Discussion Jake Virtanen | Jake It Or Break It Edition

[rune74]

Slightly better than his rookie year?

If your stat watching you would be right. You cannot honestly say he is playing the same way.

A lot of things are different this year from then....linemates and ice time are significantly different.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Easy to forget he's just 21.
The ease that Nylander and Ehlers transitioned to the NHL make it easy to forget that others like Reinhart, Bennett and Ritchie are still looking to become impact players and MDC is not even in the NHL. Reinhart looks to have taken a big step this year.
I said at the beginning of the year that if Virtanen could get 10 goals and 20 points in limited ice time but playing every night and playing physical, that would be a good year for him. Looks like he could do that.
He's also improved a lot defensively.
Hopefully he can take another big step next year.

 

[Pip]

If your stat watching you would be right. You cannot honestly say he is playing the same way.

A lot of things are different this year from then....linemates and ice time are significantly different.

Meh to me he’s the same inconsistent player with promising stretches of play. Probably a little better this year and better than I expected after his disasterous AHL season, but he’s hardly had that promising of a season, at least in my eyes.

 

[rune74]

This is a nice article today:

http://theprovince.com/sports/hocke...8-secret-sauce-and-the-showdown-with-friedman

It shows a place where Virtanen should have rocked barzel....

But then it also showed his back checking which was really good.

Also, the red sauce

 

[DL44]

Slightly better than his rookie year?

That's some in-depth observation skills on display right there.
*closes hockeydb website*

 

[MS]

Meh to me he’s the same inconsistent player with promising stretches of play. Probably a little better this year and better than I expected after his disasterous AHL season, but he’s hardly had that promising of a season, at least in my eyes.

He's been FAR better than his rookie year, outside of one good 2-3 week stretch in February 2016. He looked completely lost for most of that year and had no business in the NHL.

He's on pace for 22-23 ES points from 11 minutes of bottom-6 icetime (and tough bottom-6 icetime with lots of D-zone starts) and is consistently driving play and possession, and has been the team's best forward on at least 5-6 nights this year.

It's been a very solid season for him, especially give the complete and utter disaster that was last year. When you consider production and performance relative to salary and role, he's been one of our most effective players.

 

[Pip]

That's some in-depth observation skills on display right there.
*closes hockeydb website*

I watch almost every game. He has the same issues today that he had in his rookie season.

 

[MS]

I watch almost every game. He has the same issues today that he had in his rookie season.

He's having the same issues offensively he was having in his rookie season, and he can be frustrating to watch as a result - although he's generating lots of chances and his points/60 is actually very good. But yeah, the bad-angle shots, poor shooting decisions, and poor positioning in the offensive zone is all still there. And if that's all your looking at, yeah ... same thing.

But his defensive/all around game is on a completely different level. It's not even close. As a rookie, he had no motor. He'd move his feet when he had the puck or saw an opportunity for a hit, but was otherwise gliding around and not injecting himself into the play. Now he's actually skating and consistently breaking up plays and getting to loose pucks to really drive the play forward. If you have last night's game PVRed, watch the shift he had right at the start of the 3rd period. It leads to nothing, but his forechecking is absolutely outstanding and he's doing a terrific job of hounding the puck and opposing defenders. That didn't used to be there at all, and he's having shifts like that consistently now.

Right now he looks like a guy who could go 15-15-30 on a hard-minute matchup 3rd line next year. And the notion that this player could have been used in that role 2 years ago would have been laughable.

 

[Pip]

Sorry, I was talking mostly about his offensive game. I agree that he has rounded his game out this year and is a better defensive player. When I watch him offensively I see the same limitations as he’s always had and ones that will be difficult to improve imo

 

[MS]

Sorry, I was talking mostly about his offensive game. I agree that he has rounded his game out this year and is a better defensive player. When I watch him offensively I see the same limitations as he’s always had and ones that will be difficult to improve imo

What we saw as a rookie was a player with offensive limitations who didn't really seem to project as a top-6 player and didn't seem to have a clue how to play as a bottom-6 player either. What he was and where he fit was a bit of a mystery.

Now it's becoming pretty obvious what he is. Like I said earlier, he's probably never going to play on the PP and never going to score 50 points. But he looks very likely to develop into a guy who can fit into Hansen's sort of historical role and production as a fast, forechecking middle-6 forward who is basically a good 3rd liner but can be used on a 2nd line at ES if needed.

For where he was taken, that sucks. But for where he was a year ago, that's amazing, and he's a quality asset for the team moving forward. And if you let his draft position go, fans should be ecstatic about his development as a player and an asset this year.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Sorry, I was talking mostly about his offensive game. I agree that he has rounded his game out this year and is a better defensive player. When I watch him offensively I see the same limitations as he’s always had and ones that will be difficult to improve imo

I think that's a somewhat fair comment. But to be fair he's been mostly playing on the 4th line with players with little offensive skill. I'd like to see him play with some better offensive players for a stretch now that his defensive play is no longer a liability.
He needs to drive the net and avoid becoming a perimeter player who takes low percentage shots. And he needs to play that way more consistently. He's done it more times this year than last year. Hopefully he's starting to turn a corner. Twenty points plus would be a pretty good offensive improvement and his defensive and physical play has taken a big jump already in terms of consistency.

 

[BassMason]

Sorry, I was talking mostly about his offensive game. I agree that he has rounded his game out this year and is a better defensive player. When I watch him offensively I see the same limitations as he’s always had and ones that will be difficult to improve imo

I have the memory of a fish but I’m pretty sure he wasn’t driving to the net 2-3 times per game in his rookie year. Sure the points aren’t coming yet, but IMHO they will if he keeps it up.

I’d really like to see his shot accuracy improve. He said that on his goal last night he didn’t just try to shoot as hard as he can but pick a spot. He missed his spot and it went in anyway but the recognition of trying to improve an aspect of his game is very encouraging.

 

[DL44]

Sorry, I was talking mostly about his offensive game. I agree that he has rounded his game out this year and is a better defensive player. When I watch him offensively I see the same limitations as he’s always had and ones that will be difficult to improve imo

wtf.

I call BS.

Clearly people (and the person you quoted) are all talking about his overall game looking very good.... and you go with your comment like points are all that matter with Virtanen.

And then you doubled down on your 'observation'.....

 

[rune74]

I have the memory of a fish but I’m pretty sure he wasn’t driving to the net 2-3 times per game in his rookie year. Sure the points aren’t coming yet, but IMHO they will if he keeps it up.

I’d really like to see his shot accuracy improve. He said that on his goal last night he didn’t just try to shoot as hard as he can but pick a spot. He missed his spot and it went in anyway but the recognition of trying to improve an aspect of his game is very encouraging.

Green motioned something about how he did a play, I think the wraparound, that he was pleasantly surprised he had the confidence to try it. Didn't think he would.

 

[DL44]

He's having the same issues offensively he was having in his rookie season, and he can be frustrating to watch as a result - although he's generating lots of chances and his points/60 is actually very good. But yeah, the bad-angle shots, poor shooting decisions, and poor positioning in the offensive zone is all still there. And if that's all your looking at, yeah ... same thing.

But his defensive/all around game is on a completely different level. It's not even close. As a rookie, he had no motor. He'd move his feet when he had the puck or saw an opportunity for a hit, but was otherwise gliding around and not injecting himself into the play. Now he's actually skating and consistently breaking up plays and getting to loose pucks to really drive the play forward. If you have last night's game PVRed, watch the shift he had right at the start of the 3rd period. It leads to nothing, but his forechecking is absolutely outstanding and he's doing a terrific job of hounding the puck and opposing defenders. That didn't used to be there at all, and he's having shifts like that consistently now.

Right now he looks like a guy who could go 15-15-30 on a hard-minute matchup 3rd line next year. And the notion that this player could have been used in that role 2 years ago would have been laughable.

Good post.
But you took it too far with your last line. The good games he had during his promising finish to the season post World Jr's completely screamed that that this level of play was very much in the cards for him if he could find consistency.
Then he ate too much in the summer time..

 

[MS]

Good post.
But you took it too far with your last line. The good games he had during his promising finish to the season post World Jr's completely screamed that that this level of play was very much in the cards for him if he could find consistency.
Then he ate too much in the summer time..

It was a very small 2-3 week stretch and wasn't even the finish to the season. He was briefly good for about 10 games in February and then reverted to the same lost player for the last 15-20 games of the season. But yes, that brief blip did show signs of what's happening now.

 

[DL44]

It was a very small 2-3 week stretch and wasn't even the finish to the season. He was briefly good for about 10 games in February and then reverted to the same lost player for the last 15-20 games of the season. But yes, that brief blip did show signs of what's happening now.

And it's that sample of play as a 19 yr old that was the driving force behind my optimism for the last 2 yrs.
Some tantalizing moments.

But he still has a ways to go till he gets to where he will end up as a player. He will be a serious handful in 2 seasons. Can't wait to see 23 yr old Virtanen play.

 

[rune74]

I've been waiting for him to get to where he is now, rushing in, getting behind the defence. I think he may not score on all of those chances, but there will be ones that go in. The old adage get it on net and things will happen.

I get a lot of flak for being a fan of what he can bring, but I'm excited to see where this goes.

 

[Kickpuncher]

I'd be shocked if he's ever a guy that gets substantial PP time.

You hope at this time he can become a quality middle-6 ES scorer with a similar role/production to a guy like Hansen. He's on the right track with his play in the last month or so.

Yeah, if he can ultimately become a 20/20 guy who throws a bunch of hits and plays a solid 2-way game, that's a win at this point. Doesn't make up for passing on a pair of 60-70 point players, but would still add plenty of value as a player.

 

[manroth19]

Jakes still a second behind in the offensive zone but he’s way better then his rookie year. He didn’t drive the net like this or keeping his feet moving like he is now. He played a lot more physical in his rookie year which provided himself a lot more space and played with bo and bear half the year who can both create space.

He’s got a long way to go but to say he’s the same player offensively is just flat out wrong

 

[rune74]

Jakes still a second behind in the offensive zone but he’s way better then his rookie year. He didn’t drive the net like this or keeping his feet moving like he is now. He played a lot more physical in his rookie year which provided himself a lot more space and played with bo and bear half the year who can both create space.

He’s got a long way to go but to say he’s the same player offensively is just flat out wrong

Last night he was a second behind on purpose Leipsic hit him with the pass because he was trailing

 

[manroth19]

He needs to play like he did last night every game. The hits alone with the speed gave the islanders fits all game. Clutterbuck looking for him all game defencemen hesitant every time he was close.

And him not taking barzel out on that one play.....as much as it woulda made my day to see him put that cocky little sh*t in his place, that would a suspension or 5 minute major for sure. He would have absolutely blew him up and clean or not in this new NHL he’s getting nailed to the wall

 

[2011 still hurts]

If he can show some consistency down the stretch that'd be fantastic, that's what, his 10th solid all-around game in a row? Still hopeful that he can be even more of a force for us than Krieder was for the Rangers, his ceiling was always high but how much his hockey IQ and inconsistency will hold him back remains to be seen.

when jake plays like this he's f***ing exciting, put him with Horvat and Liepsic for the rest of the season

 

[Cupless44]

He's been FAR better than his rookie year, outside of one good 2-3 week stretch in February 2016. He looked completely lost for most of that year and had no business in the NHL.

He's on pace for 22-23 ES points from 11 minutes of bottom-6 icetime (and tough bottom-6 icetime with lots of D-zone starts) and is consistently driving play and possession, and has been the team's best forward on at least 5-6 nights this year.

It's been a very solid season for him, especially give the complete and utter disaster that was last year. When you consider production and performance relative to salary and role, he's been one of our most effective players.

Completely agree. From a realistic point of view, taking into account ice time, role, learning curve, I have been happy with Virtanen's season. You can see him starting to get it. His effort has improved, his defensive play has improved, I see his passing making strides. Still needs more work on finish and decision making but it is coming.

To all on here who have trashed him and called him a bust for 3 years, pay attention, he is coming. Jake is going to be an effective and exciting 2nd or 3rd line winger, fast and physical, that this team can definately use. And when he is on, there is no Canuck more fun to watch. He is 21 and getting better every week. Not every player of his ilk had mastered the NHL by 20 years old.

 

[kanuck87]

Since opposing d-men now know he's got serious speed to the outside, he needs to learn how to work that speed to his advantage. Work a start and stop to create space between him and the defender to wait for a trailer to fly in or he can cut to the inside when he thinks a defender is cheating too much to the outside. That's probably the next development in his offensive game.