Value of: Jaden Schwartz trade value

[Adam da bomb]

Right. 28-year olds with a lousy regular season on a lousy team but who've won a Cup and were key parts of a pair of postseason runs are a huge gamble, but 31-year olds with equally lousy seasons on equally lousy teams who've done less in the postseason are not - and 26-year olds with good seasons on a kind of lousy team who've never done much themselves in the postseason, ... well, that's gold folks. More than pure gold.

Good lord, no wonder people mock this place for valuing futures and youth and whatever someone did in the last 15 minutes. The jokes write themselves sometimes.

Your point is not as clear as you think it is. Who is the 26 yr old you are talking bout? Who is the 31 yr old old? No one can follow you.

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

I'm pretty high on Liljegren personally. Reminds me of a Brodie/Gunnarsson.
Maybe doesn't quite have the defending of Brodie but better offenses then Gunnar. Positionally sound not quite as dynamic as Sandin but a good two way defender with skill and good skating. If we did give him up I think team would be happy with him, tops out as a #3 RHD.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Your point is not as clear as you think it is.

The only way it's more clear is if I dig out 137,0137ty posts over HF's existence underscoring my point. Don't worry, you'll probably see at least 512 of them between now and the deadline and 16,384 more this summer when discussing the expansion draft.

 

[Adam da bomb]

The only way it's more clear is if I dig out 137,0137ty posts over HF's existence underscoring my point. Don't worry, you'll probably see at least 512 of them between now and the deadline and 16,384 more this summer when discussing the expansion draft.

Good hopefully one of those posts can be more clear. That they can make whatever point you are trying to make more clearly. The season is a good indicator of how a player will do in the playoffs. Kucherov good in the regular season means he’ll be good in the playoffs. Barzal a good playoff performer guess what he also does well in the regular season. There is a clear connection between how you play all year and how you do in the playoffs.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Good hopefully one of those posts can be more clear. That they can make whatever point you are trying to make more clearly. The season is a good indicator of how a player will do in the playoffs. Kucherov good in the regular season means he’ll be good in the playoffs. Barzal a good playoff performer guess what he also does well in the regular season. There is a clear connection between how you play all year and how you do in the playoffs.

Pull up a chair, kid. I'm gonna tell you a story that goes back at least 3 board crashes, long before you knew HFBoards existed. It's about the trade deadline and what teams value and what they'll give up, and how posters here generally overvalue the wrong things and are constantly confused.

In 2006, Doug Weight was on the trade block. The Blues were shit, everyone knew they were selling. Weight was 35 years old and in the twilight of his career, but having that last 35+ great season hurrah before his performance tailed off. To that point in his career, he had 20-35-55 for playoff stats across 69 games. Pretty good, in 2003 he was 5-8-13 in a 7-game series loss. But, he was 35. That '03 performance was in contrast to a '02 showing of 1-1-2 in 10 games, and an '04 appearance of 2-1-3 in 5 games. He was slowing, and everyone knew it.

What did I think he'd get? 2nd and a prospect. A handful of people assured me he'd get a 1st, I was unconvinced. Countless people SWORE TO GOD there was NO WAY IN HELL a 35-year old Doug Weight would get a 1st or even a 2nd, even going nearly point-per-game on a shitty Blues team. He's old, he's thirty-f***ing-five years old, he's getting worse, who the hell throws a 1st at him? That's stupid, no one's doing that, they're hanging on to that 1st, it's much more valuable than anything he'll do in the playoffs, hell just look at his recent past!

Carolina sent a 1st. They didn't care about - as Darth Milbury used to call it - the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuture. They had one goal in mind, and if he helped them get there, that meant so much more than what some 1st-round pick was going to do 3-4 years from now.

We all know ..... the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story. Well, maybe you don't. Here's a link to get you started.

Gosh, Ted, you said a lot of words but I'm not reading all of that - what are you trying to say? Teams in the real world that are trying to win a Stanley Cup look for veteran leadership. They look for guys who've been in the trenches, who've fought the battles, who know what it's like to play high-intensity hockey for 2 1/2 months. If they can't find those, they look for guys they think have the ability to do that, whose presence can lead them to the ultimate goal. That's why Carolina went out and got Weight and 37-year old Mark Recchi (who BTW was crap in the regular season after being acquired): they wanted guys who had a veteran presence who either knew what it took to win a Cup or could do what it would take to win it. They don't give a shit about someone's gaudy regular season stats when they're trade deadline shopping. They're looking for guys who've shown they can win a Cup.

We do this every f***ing year. Every year, one can look at the candidates for trade and pretty reasonably figure out what everyone's value is based on "what are they doing" and "what can they do for me in the playoffs." If someone is great now, GMs will guess they'll be great in the playoffs. If someone is not great now but they were great in the playoffs in the past, GMs will guess they can again be great in the playoffs. If someone is "a missing piece" to what a GM thinks he needs, they'll pay up for it. Every goddamn year, Adam. It's why in 2007 the Stars (inexplicably) dealt a 1st for Ladislav Nagy. It's why in 2009 Ottawa sent a 1st for Mike Comrie. Toronto sent a 1st (and a 3rd!) to Philadelphia for Kris Versteeg. Even as recently as 2018, it's why Nashville (again, inexplicably) sent a 1st to Chicago for Ryan Hartman. GMs don't give a shit about your feelz, your what have you done for me lately hot takes, or anything else you want to bring up that's equally irrelevant. They give a shit about winning, and some of them will pay assets for that because winning a Cup > all the 1st round picks and never winning a Cup.

Every. f***ing. Year.

So Adam, keep waxing about someone's gaudy regular season stats and what they did last night and claiming their past playoff non-performance doesn't mean anything. Keep trying to pretend history doesn't matter. Hell, keep trying to imitate my style in your responses. Because one thing 2006 - and every year prior, and every year since - has taught everyone is a really simple lesson: teams generally value experience, especially experience winning a Cup, over the ever-precious, most-highly-coveted prize on a swath of HFBoards: the 1st-round pick. In the real world, winning a Stanley Cup is a hell of a lot more important than what someone taken with that dreamy 1st-round pick may or may not do years from now that won't do a goddamn thing for them in the playoffs in the here and now when the Cup looks tantalizingly close and one player could be what pushes a team over the top.

And the sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll be ahead of a lot of people that follow hockey.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Pull up a chair, kid. I'm gonna tell you a story that goes back at least 3 board crashes, long before you knew HFBoards existed. It's about the trade deadline and what teams value and what they'll give up, and how posters here generally overvalue the wrong things and are constantly confused.

In 2006, Doug Weight was on the trade block. The Blues were shit, everyone knew they were selling. Weight was 35 years old and in the twilight of his career, but having that last 35+ great season hurrah before his performance tailed off. To that point in his career, he had 20-35-55 for playoff stats across 69 games. Pretty good, in 2003 he was 5-8-13 in a 7-game series loss. But, he was 35. That '03 performance was in contrast to a '02 showing of 1-1-2 in 10 games, and an '04 appearance of 2-1-3 in 5 games. He was slowing, and everyone knew it.

What did I think he'd get? 2nd and a prospect. A handful of people assured me he'd get a 1st, I was unconvinced. Countless people SWORE TO GOD there was NO WAY IN HELL a 35-year old Doug Weight would get a 1st or even a 2nd, even going nearly point-per-game on a shitty Blues team. He's old, he's thirty-f***ing-five years old, he's getting worse, who the hell throws a 1st at him? That's stupid, no one's doing that, they're hanging on to that 1st, it's much more valuable than anything he'll do in the playoffs, hell just look at his recent past!

Carolina sent a 1st. They didn't care about - as Darth Milbury used to call it - the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuture. They had one goal in mind, and if he helped them get there, that meant so much more than what some 1st-round pick was going to do 3-4 years from now.

We all know ..... the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story. Well, maybe you don't. Here's a link to get you started.

Gosh, Ted, you said a lot of words but I'm not reading all of that - what are you trying to say? Teams in the real world that are trying to win a Stanley Cup look for veteran leadership. They look for guys who've been in the trenches, who've fought the battles, who know what it's like to play high-intensity hockey for 2 1/2 months. If they can't find those, they look for guys they think have the ability to do that, whose presence can lead them to the ultimate goal. That's why Carolina went out and got Weight and 37-year old Mark Recchi (who BTW was crap in the regular season after being acquired): they wanted guys who had a veteran presence who either knew what it took to win a Cup or could do what it would take to win it. They don't give a shit about someone's gaudy regular season stats when they're trade deadline shopping. They're looking for guys who've shown they can win a Cup.

So Adam, keep waxing about someone's gaudy regular season stats and what they did last night and claiming their past playoff non-performance doesn't mean anything. Keep trying to pretend history doesn't matter. Hell, keep trying to imitate my style in your responses. Because one thing 2006 - and every year prior, and every year since - has taught everyone is a really simple lesson: teams generally value experience, especially experience winning a Cup, over the ever-precious, most-highly-coveted prize on a swath of HFBoards: the 1st-round pick. In the real world, winning a Stanley Cup is a hell of a lot more important than what someone taken with that dreamy 1st-round pick may or may not do years from now that won't do a goddamn thing for them in the playoffs in the here and now when the Cup looks tantalizingly close and one player could be what pushes a team over the top.

And the sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll be ahead of a lot of people that follow hockey.

Yep definitely can’t copy that long of a post. Let me tell you a story about the St. Louis blues when they won the cup. They had this really old guy named stastny who had plenty of playoff experience. Great for playoffs right. No, they sold him off. What??.
that can’t be right. Let me check my records.
Yep it’s correct.
Then they brought up a guy who had no nhl experience named Binnington. Did they get any rentals of guys who won a cup. Heck no. Gee but experience right? Especially at the most important experience. Eek no. Let’s run this old rookie. Let’s sell off our old guy and do it anyway. Then they faced a team Boston who had more experience, an experienced goalie. Had paid up their 1st for a rental. Gotta pay to play right? They had been there more recently. They are done for right? right??

 

[Adam da bomb]

Pull up a chair, kid. I'm gonna tell you a story that goes back at least 3 board crashes, long before you knew HFBoards existed. It's about the trade deadline and what teams value and what they'll give up, and how posters here generally overvalue the wrong things and are constantly confused.

In 2006, Doug Weight was on the trade block. The Blues were shit, everyone knew they were selling. Weight was 35 years old and in the twilight of his career, but having that last 35+ great season hurrah before his performance tailed off. To that point in his career, he had 20-35-55 for playoff stats across 69 games. Pretty good, in 2003 he was 5-8-13 in a 7-game series loss. But, he was 35. That '03 performance was in contrast to a '02 showing of 1-1-2 in 10 games, and an '04 appearance of 2-1-3 in 5 games. He was slowing, and everyone knew it.

What did I think he'd get? 2nd and a prospect. A handful of people assured me he'd get a 1st, I was unconvinced. Countless people SWORE TO GOD there was NO WAY IN HELL a 35-year old Doug Weight would get a 1st or even a 2nd, even going nearly point-per-game on a shitty Blues team. He's old, he's thirty-f***ing-five years old, he's getting worse, who the hell throws a 1st at him? That's stupid, no one's doing that, they're hanging on to that 1st, it's much more valuable than anything he'll do in the playoffs, hell just look at his recent past!

Carolina sent a 1st. They didn't care about - as Darth Milbury used to call it - the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuture. They had one goal in mind, and if he helped them get there, that meant so much more than what some 1st-round pick was going to do 3-4 years from now.

We all know ..... the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story. Well, maybe you don't. Here's a link to get you started.

Gosh, Ted, you said a lot of words but I'm not reading all of that - what are you trying to say? Teams in the real world that are trying to win a Stanley Cup look for veteran leadership. They look for guys who've been in the trenches, who've fought the battles, who know what it's like to play high-intensity hockey for 2 1/2 months. If they can't find those, they look for guys they think have the ability to do that, whose presence can lead them to the ultimate goal. That's why Carolina went out and got Weight and 37-year old Mark Recchi (who BTW was crap in the regular season after being acquired): they wanted guys who had a veteran presence who either knew what it took to win a Cup or could do what it would take to win it. They don't give a shit about someone's gaudy regular season stats when they're trade deadline shopping. They're looking for guys who've shown they can win a Cup.

So Adam, keep waxing about someone's gaudy regular season stats and what they did last night and claiming their past playoff non-performance doesn't mean anything. Keep trying to pretend history doesn't matter. Hell, keep trying to imitate my style in your responses. Because one thing 2006 - and every year prior, and every year since - has taught everyone is a really simple lesson: teams generally value experience, especially experience winning a Cup, over the ever-precious, most-highly-coveted prize on a swath of HFBoards: the 1st-round pick. In the real world, winning a Stanley Cup is a hell of a lot more important than what someone taken with that dreamy 1st-round pick may or may not do years from now that won't do a goddamn thing for them in the playoffs in the here and now when the Cup looks tantalizingly close and one player could be what pushes a team over the top.

And the sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll be ahead of a lot of people that follow hockey.

Yep definitely can’t copy that long of a post. Let me tell you a story about the St. Louis blues when they won the cup. They had this really old guy named stastny who had plenty of playoff experience. Great for playoffs right. No, they sold him off. What??.
that can’t be right. Let me check my records.
Yep it’s correct.
Then they brought up a guy who had no nhl experience named Binnington. Did they get any rentals of guys who won a cup. Heck no. Gee but experience right? Especially at the most important experience. Eek no. Let’s run this old rookie. Let’s sell off our old guy and do it anyway.

 

[Mal Reynolds]

Pull up a chair, kid. I'm gonna tell you a story that goes back at least 3 board crashes, long before you knew HFBoards existed. It's about the trade deadline and what teams value and what they'll give up, and how posters here generally overvalue the wrong things and are constantly confused.

In 2006, Doug Weight was on the trade block. The Blues were shit, everyone knew they were selling. Weight was 35 years old and in the twilight of his career, but having that last 35+ great season hurrah before his performance tailed off. To that point in his career, he had 20-35-55 for playoff stats across 69 games. Pretty good, in 2003 he was 5-8-13 in a 7-game series loss. But, he was 35. That '03 performance was in contrast to a '02 showing of 1-1-2 in 10 games, and an '04 appearance of 2-1-3 in 5 games. He was slowing, and everyone knew it.

What did I think he'd get? 2nd and a prospect. A handful of people assured me he'd get a 1st, I was unconvinced. Countless people SWORE TO GOD there was NO WAY IN HELL a 35-year old Doug Weight would get a 1st or even a 2nd, even going nearly point-per-game on a shitty Blues team. He's old, he's thirty-f***ing-five years old, he's getting worse, who the hell throws a 1st at him? That's stupid, no one's doing that, they're hanging on to that 1st, it's much more valuable than anything he'll do in the playoffs, hell just look at his recent past!

Carolina sent a 1st. They didn't care about - as Darth Milbury used to call it - the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuture. They had one goal in mind, and if he helped them get there, that meant so much more than what some 1st-round pick was going to do 3-4 years from now.

We all know ..... the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story. Well, maybe you don't. Here's a link to get you started.

Gosh, Ted, you said a lot of words but I'm not reading all of that - what are you trying to say? Teams in the real world that are trying to win a Stanley Cup look for veteran leadership. They look for guys who've been in the trenches, who've fought the battles, who know what it's like to play high-intensity hockey for 2 1/2 months. If they can't find those, they look for guys they think have the ability to do that, whose presence can lead them to the ultimate goal. That's why Carolina went out and got Weight and 37-year old Mark Recchi (who BTW was crap in the regular season after being acquired): they wanted guys who had a veteran presence who either knew what it took to win a Cup or could do what it would take to win it. They don't give a shit about someone's gaudy regular season stats when they're trade deadline shopping. They're looking for guys who've shown they can win a Cup.

So Adam, keep waxing about someone's gaudy regular season stats and what they did last night and claiming their past playoff non-performance doesn't mean anything. Keep trying to pretend history doesn't matter. Hell, keep trying to imitate my style in your responses. Because one thing 2006 - and every year prior, and every year since - has taught everyone is a really simple lesson: teams generally value experience, especially experience winning a Cup, over the ever-precious, most-highly-coveted prize on a swath of HFBoards: the 1st-round pick. In the real world, winning a Stanley Cup is a hell of a lot more important than what someone taken with that dreamy 1st-round pick may or may not do years from now that won't do a goddamn thing for them in the playoffs in the here and now when the Cup looks tantalizingly close and one player could be what pushes a team over the top.

And the sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll be ahead of a lot of people that follow hockey.

To add to your point, just last year Tampa paid premiums to bring in an "elite third liner" (which feels like a bit of an oxymoron to me!) in Coleman, and a solid bottom sixer in Goodrow. HF reacted as it tends to ~ hell, I confess I raised my eyebrows at the Coleman deal and outright questioned the Goodrow trade!

Of course, Tampa got a Cup out of it, plus whatever returns they get this year... risky moves though, which would have probably been pretty much universally derided around here if they didn't pay off! (They often don't ~ see Gaustad, Paul or Hartman, Ryan)

But sometimes you just gotta ante up and go for it...

 

[123offtheglass]

You're insane if you think GMs care more about regular season performance than postseason performance when making a trade at the deadline. They're not playing for the President's Trophy or HF's Best Regular Season Roster Trophy or the Best Team On Paper, Who Knows What the f*** They'll Do in the Postseason Cup.

Maybe if they were the same sample size, sure playoff games hold more value per game but you're talking about 27 games... it's the same sport in the same league; GM's can still very accurately gauge a player's ability/likelihood to perform in the playoffs based solely on their regular season performance.

 

[Frenzy31]

Yep definitely can’t copy that long of a post. Let me tell you a story about the St. Louis blues when they won the cup. They had this really old guy named stastny who had plenty of playoff experience. Great for playoffs right. No, they sold him off. What??.
that can’t be right. Let me check my records.
Yep it’s correct.
Then they brought up a guy who had no nhl experience named Binnington. Did they get any rentals of guys who won a cup. Heck no. Gee but experience right? Especially at the most important experience. Eek no. Let’s run this old rookie. Let’s sell off our old guy and do it anyway. Then they faced a team Boston who had more experience, an experienced goalie. Had paid up their 1st for a rental. Gotta pay to play right? They had been there more recently. They are done for right? right??

The Stastny trade was the year prior to winning the cup. Kind of an important fact when discussing the trade.

 

[Seph]

Pull up a chair, kid. I'm gonna tell you a story that goes back at least 3 board crashes, long before you knew HFBoards existed. It's about the trade deadline and what teams value and what they'll give up, and how posters here generally overvalue the wrong things and are constantly confused.

In 2006, Doug Weight was on the trade block. The Blues were shit, everyone knew they were selling. Weight was 35 years old and in the twilight of his career, but having that last 35+ great season hurrah before his performance tailed off. To that point in his career, he had 20-35-55 for playoff stats across 69 games. Pretty good, in 2003 he was 5-8-13 in a 7-game series loss. But, he was 35. That '03 performance was in contrast to a '02 showing of 1-1-2 in 10 games, and an '04 appearance of 2-1-3 in 5 games. He was slowing, and everyone knew it.

What did I think he'd get? 2nd and a prospect. A handful of people assured me he'd get a 1st, I was unconvinced. Countless people SWORE TO GOD there was NO WAY IN HELL a 35-year old Doug Weight would get a 1st or even a 2nd, even going nearly point-per-game on a shitty Blues team. He's old, he's thirty-f***ing-five years old, he's getting worse, who the hell throws a 1st at him? That's stupid, no one's doing that, they're hanging on to that 1st, it's much more valuable than anything he'll do in the playoffs, hell just look at his recent past!

Carolina sent a 1st. They didn't care about - as Darth Milbury used to call it - the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuture. They had one goal in mind, and if he helped them get there, that meant so much more than what some 1st-round pick was going to do 3-4 years from now.

We all know ..... the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrest of the story. Well, maybe you don't. Here's a link to get you started.

Gosh, Ted, you said a lot of words but I'm not reading all of that - what are you trying to say? Teams in the real world that are trying to win a Stanley Cup look for veteran leadership. They look for guys who've been in the trenches, who've fought the battles, who know what it's like to play high-intensity hockey for 2 1/2 months. If they can't find those, they look for guys they think have the ability to do that, whose presence can lead them to the ultimate goal. That's why Carolina went out and got Weight and 37-year old Mark Recchi (who BTW was crap in the regular season after being acquired): they wanted guys who had a veteran presence who either knew what it took to win a Cup or could do what it would take to win it. They don't give a shit about someone's gaudy regular season stats when they're trade deadline shopping. They're looking for guys who've shown they can win a Cup.

So Adam, keep waxing about someone's gaudy regular season stats and what they did last night and claiming their past playoff non-performance doesn't mean anything. Keep trying to pretend history doesn't matter. Hell, keep trying to imitate my style in your responses. Because one thing 2006 - and every year prior, and every year since - has taught everyone is a really simple lesson: teams generally value experience, especially experience winning a Cup, over the ever-precious, most-highly-coveted prize on a swath of HFBoards: the 1st-round pick. In the real world, winning a Stanley Cup is a hell of a lot more important than what someone taken with that dreamy 1st-round pick may or may not do years from now that won't do a goddamn thing for them in the playoffs in the here and now when the Cup looks tantalizingly close and one player could be what pushes a team over the top.

And the sooner you learn that, the sooner you'll be ahead of a lot of people that follow hockey.

Doing Weight was worth a 1st because he knew how to play high intensity hockey for 2 1/2 months? Weight had never played past the 2nd round or more than 12 games in a post season. Carolina gave up a 1st because he was having a very good season at 44 pts in 47 games, not because he had some great record of post season success.

While I do agree that guys with experience at winning matters, this particular example demonstrates Adam's point better than yours.

 

[burstnbloom]

Imagine thinking that mark stone and jaden Schwartz are comparable players AND thinking nhl leadership mindset hasn’t evolved in 15 years. Woweeweewah. The world is flat

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I'd love Schwartz but I think the value would more be 1st or Lilly; not both. People are really sleeping on him for whatever reason. Additionally put me in the camp that would prefer Schwartz to Hall as a stretch add .

 

[boots legrand]

This is a bad year to ask for normal returns. if Taylor Hall is not getting a 1st, Schwarz is MAYBE getting a 3rd. Probably a 3rd and a D prospect (sending 2 contracts your way).

 

[boots legrand]

absurd Schwartz evaluation on your part. i say Blues won't deal him in this down year for him and the team. the Blues would be extremely foolish if they did deal him, especially for the pittance you proposed

 

[Vachon23]

Is there really some poster who think STL will only get a 3rd for Schwartz ? Put this guy on the market and every playoff team will be interested in a way. I bet that a lot of GM would take him before Hall for a playoff rental. The don't value a player only on 1 year, he's not the 1st good player to have a bad season and not the last

 

[Colt55]

I'd love Schwartz but I think the value would more be 1st or Lilly; not both. People are really sleeping on him for whatever reason. Additionally put me in the camp that would prefer Schwartz to Hall as a stretch add .

Well that's your opinion and it's a bad one.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Well that's your opinion and it's a bad one.

That remains to be seen . If hes moved and goes for a 1st and top prospect feel free to bump this. As I said I like the player and prefer him to Hall . But you seem to be talking in absolutes when it's anything but.

 

[Colt55]

That remains to be seen . If hes moved and goes for a 1st and top prospect feel free to bump this. As I said I like the player and prefer him to Hall . But you seem to be talking in absolutes when it's anything but.

No I am generally spot on slightly higher value the what happens. I hitseveral in past. For example. I was in the minority that said allen at 4.5 wasn't going to be a negative but he got a 4th rounder and cleared 4.5 in cap. I know army won't trade him unless it's a huge overpayment. So if traded he would get a mid to late first plus an a prospect, maybe more. Unless it's a knock your socks off offer army won't trade him. He will resign him to what schenn got. See what someone is worth is relative to all the variables. Not just perceived value.

 

[inthe6ix]

Oh yes to Schwartz.. make it happen KD!

 

[Zonk]

The only way it's more clear is if I dig out 137,0137ty posts over HF's existence underscoring my point. Don't worry, you'll probably see at least 512 of them between now and the deadline and 16,384 more this summer when discussing the expansion draft.

Please clarify, (i.e. make more clear), what you mean by "137,1037ty". Sorry, but I am not familiar with numbers in that format.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

No I am generally spot on slightly higher value the what happens. I hitseveral in past. For example. I was in the minority that said allen at 4.5 wasn't going to be a negative but he got a 4th rounder and cleared 4.5 in cap. I know army won't trade him unless it's a huge overpayment. So if traded he would get a mid to late first plus an a prospect, maybe more. Unless it's a knock your socks off offer army won't trade him. He will resign him to what schenn got. See what someone is worth is relative to all the variables. Not just perceived value.

Well guess we'll see if your value is spot on this time, since that's the topic at hand. Or maybe he doesn't get moved and this thread dies . 1st and a top prospect remains very doubtful. Prospect has a wide range of value pts . By top prospect I mean a guy in a teams top 3 . If that type of guy is coming I don't see a first attached and vice versa. Agree to disagree/I'll put a pin in it until there is movement one way or another.

 

[sfvega]

To the point that regular season production predicts playoff performance, that's pretty laughable. For years we had Oshie here who was great during the regular season and disappeared in the playoffs. How about Bobrovsky? How about our Cup year when Schwartz had 11 goals in the regular season and 12 in the playoffs? How about Boston trading for Charlie Coyle who had 11 goals in 81 games and scored 9 in the playoffs? The playoffs are a small sample size. Cold players can get hot, hot players can go cold. It's a very difficult thing to predict. Guys who are consistent performers obviously have a decent chance to perform, but it is far from an exact science.

Well sorry it's not what you want to hear, but welcome to reality. Any GM looking to trade for a rental doesn't give a rats ass what that player did 3+ years ago. They're going to look at their recent production.

Schwartz has a significantly weaker career than Taylor Hall, and its been pretty heavily speculated that even Hall won't return a 1st.

3+ years ago? Schwartz was on pace for 65 points last season while playing 1st line and great defense. Taylor Hall last year was on pace for...65 points with lesser defense.

 

[Wondercarrot]

IF the blues decide to take calls on Jaden Schwartz, what's the 28 yr old pending UFA LW (@5.35m) trade value?

Past TDL wing rental comparisons:
- RW Tyler Toffoli (2020) Tyler Toffoli Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
- RW Mark Stone (2019) Mark Stone Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps - immediately signed extension
- LW Mats Zuccarello (2019) Mats Zuccarello Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps
- RW Gustav Nyquist (2019) Gustav Nyquist Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Of those names (and their play at the time of the trade) I'd think Schwartz would return more than Toffol, Zuccarello, & Nyquist but less than Stone.

Seeing as Mark Stone, unretained but immediately signed an extension, basically went for a mid 1st round pick (Brannstrom) + a late 2nd, I think Jaden Schwartz, retained, would be worth either:

late 1st + 2nd

OR

mid 1st-round level prospect

For context Ottawa got totally f***ed in its return for Mark freakin’ Stone.

 

[Sota Popinski]

I'm not telling people Blais is worth a 2nd, so ...

"I don't want to hear from Blues fans"
*Is a Blues fan who won't stop posting*