Prospect Info: Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko?

[NYRFANMANI]

Chicago jumping to 3 was a travesty.

True, that in and of itself.

 

[nyr2k2]

Absolutely.

I always preferred Kakko and I can dig up evidence, but I think a lot of people just have their hearts set on the likely pick now.

I certainly do. I want Kakko even more now because I already have the idea in my head.

Or slanted the other way.

Yeah, I know quite a few people preferred Kakko to Hughes well before the lottery. I myself have said I think on talent, they're very close (though I voted for the C, Hughes). Still, it's kind of ridiculous to think people prefer Kakko by a 3-1 ratio, or thereabouts. I mean Hughes is still the consensus, and very likely top pick. Hard for me to believe if we had #1, that 62% of people would want Kakko there.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Yeah, I know quite a few people preferred Kakko to Hughes well before the lottery. I myself have said I think on talent, they're very close (though I voted for the C, Hughes). Still, it's kind of ridiculous to think people prefer Kakko by a 3-1 ratio, or thereabouts. I mean Hughes is still the consensus, and very likely top pick. Hard for me to believe if we had #1, that 62% of people would want Kakko there.

The numbers would be nearly the exact opposite imo.

I never voted, because I was happy to think we'd escaped the Hughes vs. Kakko debate by getting the 2 slot.

 

[Machinehead]

Yeah, I know quite a few people preferred Kakko to Hughes well before the lottery. I myself have said I think on talent, they're very close (though I voted for the C, Hughes). Still, it's kind of ridiculous to think people prefer Kakko by a 3-1 ratio, or thereabouts. I mean Hughes is still the consensus, and very likely top pick. Hard for me to believe if we had #1, that 62% of people would want Kakko there.

If dad suggests pizza for dinner (and pizza is great, I prefer it to begin with) and then he says "well how about burgers?" I'm like "no, you already said pizza." I already started thinking about it.

It's sort of like that.

 

[Lays]

If Kreider goes I think the push becomes harder, but I'm not sure it really matters.

BTW, what was the site with all the iso videos you mentioned yesterday?

prospectshifts.com

$5 a month but 100% worth it if you're a fan or even a pro scout

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

 

[Machinehead]

I need this in my life

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Please inject me with kakko stats based stat boy

 

[Machinehead]

Also, why does he have the redbulls on his helmet? @Amazing Kreiderman

 

[MyLoveIsBlue]

I remember when I was a young teenager being forced

to choose between Mary Ann or Ginger by my buddies. I always answered why can't I have both?

So give me both Hughes and Kakko.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

prospectshifts.com

$5 a month but 100% worth it if you're a fan or even a pro scout

Thanks!

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

My definition of "generational" is different than your's I think. Being the best player of your generation isn't enough. You need to be unquestionably dominant at your position.

Hank was the best goalie of his generation, hands down imo. But he was always playing second or sometimes third fiddle to whoever the flavour of the week was in a particular season.

If you look at the list I posted above, those guys never played second fiddle (except to each other) while they were in their primes. Ovechkin is the most borderline one there, but his other-worldly goal scoring hasn't been challenged.

Crosby went 7 years (2007-2014) between winning Art Ross trophies at his peak, only one of them was to Ovechkin. Each Sedin got one, Malkin got two, and St Louis got the other. He also went that same period of time without winning the Hart, Ovechkin has 3, Malkin had 1, Corey Perry had 1, and Henrik Sedin had the other. Ovechkin also had a 4 year drought of not winning the Rocket, 2 to Stamkos, 1 for Crosby, 1 for Perry. Lundqvist was a finalist for the Vezina for how many years in a row? It sucks that goaltending lends itself to more flavor of the week opinions, but it’s a position that largely depends on the team they’re playing on. Like @Machinehead has already mentioned, he’s doubled the next closest goal in GSAA since he came into the league

 

[Machinehead]

I appreciate the consensus argument but at the same time, these are the same unwashed masses who think Stevens is better than Leetch.

 

[Machinehead]

Honest question: can anybody give me an example of a guy who became a center at 17/18/19 and stuck as a center?

I feel like, in most cases, if you're gonna be an NHL center, you were always a center.

 

[haveandare]

Just for clarity's sake here and so I don't sound like a moron - is it pronounced "Cap-Oh" "Cack-Oh" or some other way?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Honest question: can anybody give me an example of a guy who became a center at 17/18/19 and stuck as a center?

I feel like, in most cases, if you're gonna be an NHL center, you were always a center.

It’s becoming more of a thing so it’s more younger guys (I’m probably missing some older examples), PLD in Columbus, Kotkaniemi in MTL and there’s another big-ish name that I’m blanking on

 

[Edge]

Honest question: can anybody give me an example of a guy who became a center at 17/18/19 and stuck as a center?

I feel like, in most cases, if you're gonna be an NHL center, you were always a center.

I don't think anyone who's never seen at least a moderate amount of time there can do it.

But there are guys who haven't been full-time centers, or seen more time on the wings, who've made it.

Kevin Hayes comes to mind.

 

[mrmovies779]

I remember when I was a young teenager being forcedView attachment 211893 to choose between Mary Ann or Ginger by my buddies. I always answered why can't I have both?

So give me both Hughes and Kakko.

Mary Ann all day for me

 

[nyr2k2]

My definition of "generational" is different than your's I think. Being the best player of your generation isn't enough. You need to be unquestionably dominant at your position.

Hank was the best goalie of his generation, hands down imo. But he was always playing second or sometimes third fiddle to whoever the flavour of the week was in a particular season.

If you look at the list I posted above, those guys never played second fiddle (except to each other) while they were in their primes. Ovechkin is the most borderline one there, but his other-worldly goal scoring hasn't been challenged.

For my money Hank is a generational goaltender, posting great stats on deeply flawed teams and a few very good teams. Who knows, though. It's just like in baseball--if Bryce Harper posts historic numbers when all is said and done, is he not generational because Mike Trout was around at the same time?

Honestly, it's why I prefer "All-time Great" to "Generational." Until hockey can come up with a good way to quantify overall contributions over each season for each player and normalize it so we can compare Hank to Plante to Parent to Vachon, it's too hard to talk about guys from different (and even overlapping) eras.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I remember when I was a young teenager being forcedView attachment 211893 to choose between Mary Ann or Ginger by my buddies. I always answered why can't I have both?

So give me both Hughes and Kakko.

I cannot like this post enough and I have no idea what you wrote.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Crosby went 7 years (2007-2014) between winning Art Ross trophies at his peak, only one of them was to Ovechkin. Each Sedin got one, Malkin got two, and St Louis got the other. He also went that same period of time without winning the Hart, Ovechkin has 3, Malkin had 1, Corey Perry had 1, and Henrik Sedin had the other. Ovechkin also had a 4 year drought of not winning the Rocket, 2 to Stamkos, 1 for Crosby, 1 for Perry. Lundqvist was a finalist for the Vezina for how many years in a row? It sucks that goaltending lends itself to more flavor of the week opinions, but it’s a position that largely depends on the team they’re playing on. Like @Machinehead has already mentioned, he’s doubled the next closest goal in GSAA since he came into the league

Hmm, I never really meant hardware, but I still get your argument.

I would be very surprised if there was ever any sort of a concensus saying that Crosby wasn't the best player in the world during his practically his entire career, whereas it always seems like we're fighting the good fight with Hank.

I'm driving around running errands right now, so we can pick up later. But I'm just not sure what to tell you. I don't think there have been 30 or so generational players in the history of the league. I think there have been 6 or 7. I don't consider Brodeur generational either. Putting Hank in that company is a stretch.

 

[Dijock94]

It’s becoming more of a thing so it’s more younger guys (I’m probably missing some older examples), PLD in Columbus, Kotkaniemi in MTL and there’s another big-ish name that I’m blanking on

Elias Pettersson

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

For what it's worth:

When I was 17-18 I was invited to a tryout for the New Jersey Rockin' Rollers. Really cool experience. They played in Continental Airlines Arena.

The head coach of the Rockin' Rollers for 2 seasons was Jack Hughes's father, Jim Hughes. Many Rockin' Roller events (i think they practiced there too) were held at South Mountain arena, the old Devils facility.

Jim Hughes has been a pro scout for some time (I believe with Toronto) and has connections with many NHL "families", including the Shero's and connections to North Jersey and the Devils organization.

 

[Thirty One]

I remember when I was a young teenager being forced to choose between Mary Ann or Ginger by my buddies. I always answered why can't I have both?

So give me both Hughes and Kakko.

In this case there's a very clear reason why you can't have both.

 

[Machinehead]

In this case there's a very clear reason why you can't have both.