Jaccob Slavin is the best young defenseman in the league

[RiceCooker]

Bring up all the stats you want. When starting a team, who picks Slavin over:

Provorov
Jones
Parayko
Ekblad
Werenski
Trouba
Lindholm

Nobody? I thought so.

I would add Dumba to that list.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

So Werenski is "sheltered" because he gets to play with a stud like Jones but at the same time Jones plays with Werenski so thats a boost?

Yes, Seth Jones is an elite young defenseman and Werenski greatly benefits from playing with him. But its not like Werenski is a liability - he's a great young offensive defenseman. They both benefit from playing with eachother

Im so confused with this thread as the reason Slavin is better then someone keeps changing.

I haven't changed my line of reasoning, but it stands to reason that he is better than different players at different things, right? Crosby is better than Ovechkin for reasons that differ from him being better than McDavid or Kane.

Slavin is a great player but this is just Gaudreau vs the world all over again

Was I wrong when I was pumping Gaudreau's tires all those years before the NHL or during his rookie season?

 

[Absolut]

Nice chart. Lol, poor Provorov. Would be better off partnering with a chicken.

 

[Gardner McKay]

No

No

No

No

None of these guys is anywhere close to where Slavin is defensively and Slavin is underrated offensively.

I would take Parayko, Jones and Werenski over Slavin, AINEC.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I would add Dumba to that list.

Curious, what would be your argument for that, other than a few more PP points?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nice chart. Lol, poor Provorov. Would be better off partnering with a chicken.

From what I've seen, he's definitely getting thrown to the wolves a bit. He's going to be a good one though.

 

[Frk It]

Just to show how these guys are used this year:

Very misleading, IMO. The majority of players fall within a 4% deviation of Ozone starts. I don't think a 52% o zone start vs a 54-55% o zone start has that much of an impact on a players output. But the graph makes it look like it's a big difference.

 

[Absolut]

I would take Parayko, Jones and Werenski over Slavin, AINEC.

I think Parayko, Jones and Provorov are NEC. Werenski is tricky. I watch him a lot, and I would take Slavin's defensive IQ over Werenski's. Slavin is so solid. Werenski is always going to be better offensively. Both are similar in size, and both are great hard-working kids. But what Slavin bring to the table defensively is special - and IMO harder to find. I know everyone would take Werenski over Slavin right now, but it may not be the case in three years.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'm guessing Slavin is better than Hanafin? I don't follow the Canes too closely but Hanafin is usually the one I notice most.

Also I think Ekblad will probably end up being a true #1 Dman unlike any of these others aside from maybe Jones, but at the moment I suppose it's hard to argue for Ekblad. He and Jones are the only ones with that potential though IMO.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

i'm guessing slavin is better than hanafin? I don't follow the canes too closely but hanafin is usually the one i notice most.

Also i think ekblad will probably end up being a true #1 dman unlike any of these others aside from maybe jones, but at the moment i suppose it's hard to argue for ekblad. He and jones are the only ones with that potential though imo.

ainec.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

I'm guessing Slavin is better than Hanafin? I don't follow the Canes too closely but Hanafin is usually the one I notice most.

Also I think Ekblad will probably end up being a true #1 Dman unlike any of these others aside from maybe Jones, but at the moment suppose it's hard to argue for Ekblad. He and Jones are the only ones with that potential though IMO.

MOD
Ekblad is currently the biggest question-mark in the group. He's been exposed this year, and it's not pretty. Aside maybe from Jones? He is the best one of the group right now. Already is a true #1D. "These others" are Parayko, Provorov, Trouba and Werenski. All STUDS.

 

[DaveG]

I'm guessing Slavin is better than Hanafin? I don't follow the Canes too closely but Hanafin is usually the one I notice most.

Also I think Ekblad will probably end up being a true #1 Dman unlike any of these others aside from maybe Jones, but at the moment I suppose it's hard to argue for Ekblad. He and Jones are the only ones with that potential though IMO.

Slavin is definitely the better of the two right now. Not even sure that Hanifin has a higher upside that much anymore since Slavin was an offensive stud in college and that aspect of his game has started to show of late.

That said, Hanifin has looked a lot better of late as well since he's no longer being paired with AHL caliber players.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Already is a true #1D. "These others" are Parayko, Provorov, Trouba and Werenski. All STUDS.

Trouba is pretty terrible.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

From what I've seen, he's definitely getting thrown to the wolves a bit. He's going to be a good one though.

Provy did get thrown to the wolves. 100%. Took his lumps, had an embarrassing game against Chicago, shook it off - and kept on ticking. The kid has nerves of steel.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Very misleading, IMO. The majority of players fall within a 4% deviation of Ozone starts. I don't think a 52% o zone start vs a 54-55% o zone start has that much of an impact on a players output. But the graph makes it look like it's a big difference.

It's not misleading at all unless you try to take each number as an absolute. As I said earlier, it's impossible to use any stat / stats to compare players who are on totally different teams in totally different situations. It just shows relatively how guys are used. For instance, it's pretty clear that Ekblad, Schulz, and Skeji have been very sheltered this year vs. the rest of the guys. It also shows that some of the guys have faced tougher competition relative to others.

What it doesn't show, is in comparison to the rest on the team. For instance, Slavin and his partner face the toughest competition and gets the least offensive zone starts on his team. That's not true for Werenski / Jones as Johnson have faced slightly tougher competition and significantly more d zone starts. Same goes for Parayko as Pietrangelo and Bouwmeister take the toughest match-ups by far.

Hamilton OTOH, as an example, is up there in terms of D zone starts and competition on his team.

Again, the chart was not meant to be a be all, end all, just to relatively show how they were used.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

MOD
Ekblad is currently the biggest question-mark in the group. He's been exposed this year, and it's not pretty. Aside maybe from Jones? He is the best one of the group right now. Already is a true #1D. "These others" are Parayko, Provorov, Trouba and Werenski. All STUDS.

You do understand that Ekblad is 21 years old and relied on more than everyone else on the list with the exception of Jones right? I guess you don't. You're throwing the kid under the bus because he's had a bad year in the first season being "the guy" at an incredibly young age? Good thing you weren't in charge in Tampa when Hedman was developing.

I don't think you understand the definition of a #1 Dman or the term "stud".....at all really. You think a guy like Werenski, as good as he is, is going to be a do-it-all defenseman that will be first over the boards in every situation? You're kidding yourself.

Slavin is definitely the better of the two right now. Not even sure that Hanifin has a higher upside that much anymore since Slavin was an offensive stud in college and that aspect of his game has started to show of late. Basically your post can be summed up as "I can't see two inches in front of my face when talking about player development."

That said, Hanifin has looked a lot better of late as well since he's no longer being paired with AHL caliber players.

Thanks. It didn't seem like Hanifin had a lot of offensive upside I just always thought he looked like he had good size and was a very confident skater.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

Trouba is pretty terrible.

I think similarly Trouba is an example of a young D that hasn't fully grown into his body. The tool-set is there. Sometimes you wonder what happened to the toolbox. Trouba reminds me of Alex Kovalev of all people. BUT if he can put it all together, he can be amazing.

 

[bl02]

I don't get to watch many canes games but with all these amazing young defenseman why are they so bad?

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

You do understand that Ekblad is 21 years old and relied on more than everyone else on the list with the exception of Jones right? I guess you don't. You're throwing the kid under the bus because he's had a bad year in the first season being "the guy" at an incredibly young age? Good thing you weren't in charge in Tampa when Hedman was developing.

I don't think you understand the definition of a #1 Dman or the term "stud".....at all really. You think a guy like Werenski, as good as he is, is going to be a do-it-all defenseman that will be first over the boards in every situation? You're kidding yourself.

Actually, I do not think that Werenski will be a true #1D. But Jones, Provorov and Parayko will be. Ekbland is relied on as much as Provorov and Slavin. And the only thing you can say about Jones is that he has a better defensive partner. So I don't see what makes you think that Ekbland is the only potential #1D in the group. Maybe because he's so big? I mean, you can't teach size. But you can't teach hockey IQ either.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I don't get to watch many canes games but with all these amazing young defenseman why are they so bad?

The rest of the team is below average IMO and as good as the D prospects are I don't think they're lights out amazing like some people seem to assume. I like them a lot but people seem to walk around believing that they have six A prospects playing on their blueline.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

You do understand that Ekblad is 21 years old and relied on more than everyone else on the list with the exception of Jones right? I guess you don't. You're throwing the kid under the bus because he's had a bad year in the first season being "the guy" at an incredibly young age? Good thing you weren't in charge in Tampa when Hedman was developing.

I don't think you understand the definition of a #1 Dman or the term "stud".....at all really. You think a guy like Werenski, as good as he is, is going to be a do-it-all defenseman that will be first over the boards in every situation? You're kidding yourself.

I'm curious what you mean by that in bold?

1) He's 3rd on the team (defensemen) in # of shifts / game.
2) Yes, EV TOI/GP he leads the team but Matheson and Yandle aren't far behind.
2) He's not relied upon at all on the PK. (6th in PK TOI/GP)
3) He gets the 2nd most PP time on the team (defensemen)
4) He takes the LEAST defensive zone starts on the team (defensemen)
5) Pysyk and Matheson face tougher competition than he does.

I'm not dumping on Ekblad, but it's hard to argue he's relied upon more than anyone else and is a "do it all" defenseman based on the numbers. Heck, I don't know how any defenseman who does not PK can be called "do it all".

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I would add Dumba to that list.

Hell no, Slavin is a trillion times better than Dumba. There is no competition.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'm curious what you mean by that in bold?

1) He's 3rd on the team (defensemen) in # of shifts / game.
2) Yes, EV TOI/GP he leads the team but Matheson and Yandle aren't far behind.
2) He's not relied upon at all on the PK. (6th in PK TOI/GP)
3) He gets the 2nd most PP time on the team (defensemen)
4) He takes the LEAST defensive zone starts on the team (defensemen)
5) Pysyk and Matheson face tougher competition than he does.

I'm not dumping on Ekblad, but it's hard to argue he's relied upon more than anyone else and is a "do it all" defenseman based on the numbers. Heck, I don't know how any defenseman who does not PK can be called "do it all".

No you've got me there. I assumed incorrectly that with the upcoming contract and how well his career started that he was playing way more than that this year, but apparently he's just having a very lackluster season.

I don't think he's a do-it-all defenseman now I was just speaking to the potential to be that. I think all of these guys could be #1's on their own team, but when I think of a "true #1" as stated previously I think of guys like Keith, Weber, Chara in their primes. Perhaps my bar is set too high, but I think Ekblad COULD be a guy like that more so than most of these others potentially. I don't think any Dman is that good at 21.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Nobody has said we have six "A" prospects on the blueline, but here's why they suck.
1) Worst goaltending in the NHL.
2) Worst forward group on the NHL - Canes are likely to have 1 player on the team over 50 points this year...Skinner with 55.
3) Lowest payroll in the NHL
4) Youngest team in the NHL

Not hard to figure out why they suck. And in terms of the defense. Slavin, Pesce, and Faulk are all good. Hanifin has the "POTENTIAL" to be good, but isn't there yet. The other promising prospects (Fleury, McKeown, Bean) aren't even in the NHL yet.

EDIT: sorry, mixed up and quoted the wrong post.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

No you've got me there. I assumed incorrectly that with the upcoming contract and how well his career started that he was playing way more than that this year, but apparently he's just having a very lackluster season.

He is,but that doesn't mean he won't bounce back. HF is typically "what have you done for me lately" and seems to ignore that good players can have bad seasons. I think he'll bounce back and think he'll be one of the best young defensemen in the league.