TheDevilMadeMe
Registered User
In 1999, Jagr flat out owned Brodeur, but he was very unimpressive the other 3 times he faced Brodeur's team
Jágr vs Lafleur
- Thread starter Ziostilon
- Start date
Guy has more cups and had a great concentrated run for 5 years in the playoffs but outside of those 5 years he was less than ordinary (and we are talking about a 42 game sample over 8 years as well).
This leads me to the conclusion listed below.
RabbinsDuck
Registered User
Not undeserving, but the weakest of the bunch. Goalies have much higher standards than other players for the HHoF, so not too many question him being in there.
buffalowing88
Registered User
Jagr. And this is why I come to the History of Hockey section because if this poll was placed in any other forum, the answers would have been: "Jagr, because that's the only hockey I have been alive to see!" or "LaFleur, because his team won a lot and he has personality and is Canadian!"
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
I actually have an issue with the poll. I apparantly voted for Jagr in the poll results, which IMO it means after all the merging the question I answered was not who do you think was better, since I have Lafleur ahead of Jagr on my personal all-time list. I think the question that I answered in this poll got lost in the shuffle of all the merges, because there is no way I would have voted for Jagr in a 'Who do you think was better' question.
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Lafleur led the playoffs in scoring three times. Only Gretzky and Howe have led the playoffs more and they did it six times each.
Brewsky
King Of The Ice Mugs
Top Three scoring finishes for each of them.
Lafleur. Regular Season (1st,1st,1st,3rd,3rd)
Post Season (1st,1st,1st,)
Jagr. Regular Season (1st,1st,1st,1st,1st,2nd,2nd)
Playoffs -----------------------------------------
Lafleur. Regular Season (1st,1st,1st,3rd,3rd)
Post Season (1st,1st,1st,)
Jagr. Regular Season (1st,1st,1st,1st,1st,2nd,2nd)
Playoffs -----------------------------------------
Sure that's a fine comp for peak but look at the entirety of their careers and Jagr has a 169-77-104-181 line and Guy's is 128-58-76-134.
anything in isolation can be misleading
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
- 36,763
- 3,215
Sure. But tell you what, I never saw Guy' take consecutive nights off the way Jagr did habitually; nor did I ever see him evaporate & disappear in the playoffs and certainly never on the World Stage the way Jaro often did. When playing with Lemieux he was brilliant; showed flashes of it thereafter, but not consistently enough, which was really rather frustrating to watch. If he'd been consistent, Id definitely take him over Guy Lafleur. Jagr's stats are extremely impressive & he was a bona-fide Superstar, yet I always felt he'd take his foot off the gas for whatever reason, which I call "flaky" but dont mean in any derogatory sense. Something seemed to be bothering or distracting the guy it seemed though just what who the Hec Ramsey knows?.... I also picked Lafleur for sentimental & purely subjective reasons.
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Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
That's a bit harsh, don't you think?
In his last NHL season, Jagr had 2 points and 6 assists (and +3) while leading the Rangers past NJ in 5 games. That's "very unimpressive", especially at age 36?
The other two series (2001 and 2006) he was playing with one arm and so while (aside from first game of 2006 series before he hurt his shoulder) he may have been "very unimpressive", there was a legitimate reason.
The Devils were the best at containing Jagr, but this had more to do with their HOF defensemen and great checking lines than Brodeur IMO.
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
Jagr elevated the play of his linemates (Francis, Straka, Nylander, Nedved, Hrdina, Barnes, etc.) and helped most of them to achieve career bests. He elevated mediocre or worse teams to the playoffs and some series wins. He wasn't able to elevate them to the Cup, but don't see how any single player could have done so.
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Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
Actually, he was third in '96, despite not making Finals. Also 4th in points and goals (first in even strength goals) in '92 at age 20. It's difficult to be top 3 in playoff points when the team is incapable of making it past the second round.
Czech Your Math
I am lizard king
I don't entirely disagree with your perspective. It was probably less apparent IF Lafleur took his foot off the gas while playing for a dynasty in the '70s (when there was less parity in general and players were not quite as dedicated to training). Jagr did take shifts and games off, but don't think he did so in the playoffs, nor in international competition (aren't these what you mean by the "world stage"?). People seem to forget that he was basically playing with one arm in 2001 and 2006 series against Devils.
Jagr's longevity wins this debate, IMO. Guy flamed out much too early. I still remember when he retired the first time.
It was shocking when he hung up his skates, but he was not the same player in his 2nd decade in the league. You can't say the same of Jagr who was still one of the league's dominant players in the 2000's as he was in the 90's.
Guy was a much better disco singer, though!
It was shocking when he hung up his skates, but he was not the same player in his 2nd decade in the league. You can't say the same of Jagr who was still one of the league's dominant players in the 2000's as he was in the 90's.
Guy was a much better disco singer, though!
Killion
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2010
- 36,763
- 3,215
By international Im referring to his appearances with the National Team of course, and again, and Im really being "picky" about it because as a player overall the guy was superb, but I did notice some serious valleys' to the peaks of his game from shift to shift or period to period. Very enigmatic. No idea why. Even "after Lemieux" he could alter the course of a game & lift the entire team off of its back if they were down so it clearly wasnt a character (or lack thereof) issue. Perhaps injuries as you suggest, and maybe more than was ever divulged could explain the inconsistencies, which makes sense.
Lafleur on the other hand enjoyed cigarette's & the night-life as many did through the 70's & early 80's, really a different era from the more disciplined & fitness conscious decades that have followed. He should have stayed retired IMO as well, though the siren call (and the cash) drew him back. Its an interesting comparison, sort of like asking if someone thinks the Beatles Revolver or Sargent Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band was a better album. Who cares?, I'll take them both please. Both players were artists, both brilliant in their own right, tough not to be purely subjective about it based on your own personal recollections & memories, and screw the stats....
"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there".
L.P. Hartley
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