Sorry for taking so long, the last three days have been a whirlwind.
You can take the path of saying we didn't have a better deal to offer for some of them, but that's not what was being debated.
It isn't?! That's like saying, why don't homeless people just go to the grocery store.... there's plenty of food! Then when someone says, "uum.... they don't have money?", you step up and say "This isn't about money, this is about feeding the homeless!"
C'mon man... that is SUPER weak.
You asked if any defensemen got moved. Yes, more than the three you suggested were. It is fair to ask if the deals that happened could have been influenced by us because of our assets vs. the other team's assets that were eventually moved.
Here's a little pet project for you. Go back to our roster, and prospect depth chart in 08-09-10. Just look at it, that's all I want you to do, the rest should be self explanatory.
But if you do that, then that leaves open the idea that maybe our assets could have been a good match for someone else - deals that never went down because our management didn't view defense as a problem in the first place.
That's BS, and you know it. Management has been trying to add defensemen, and HAVE added defensemen, good defensemen over the past 5 years. Streit, Wiz, Sutton, Witt and Lubomir all say differently. Even Mark Parrish netted a young defenseman, and he was the only player we had to sell off at the time.
That said.... what unicorn were we going to trade for with a handful of magic beans? Richard Park? Andy Hilbert? Who in sams hell was available for those guys that was so great, and to top it off, they were available for those scrubs but no one else realized it when EVERYONE is trying to add defensemen?!
Or would you rather have traded one of the many good young players on the roster? Okposo, Bailey, MacDonald? Yeah... that's where the list ends. We're a rebuilding team, but lets trade away our young players for a defenseman that isn't available. Maybe it would be smarter to trade away one of our 1st rounders? I don't think there were many takers for Rett Rakhshani (a top 5 prospect for us those years).... but hey, maybe someone parts with a top 4 defenseman! Not?
We didn't have them when Snow decided to pass on drafting more or better defensemen earlier in the process.
I just blew this completely out of the water.... and you continue to use it as a crutch.
Taking all defensemen though... what are the odds? Did that ever happen before for another club? Dumb luck might expect it to have happened somewhere in the history of the NHL, but I can't recall a team with all of its picks ever doing that. That seemed like pure desperation.
When I explained this the first time, I thought you said you understood?
Reinhard, Pokka, Pelech. Those were the first three picks. I hope no one has a problem with those three?
Doyle Somerby was in HS at the time, he had a huge frame and projectable skills. He will be in the NCAA, so we don't have to worry about getting him signed for a few years.
Jake Bischoff was another HS player who is currently in the NCAA and a few years from having to be signed.
The other two picked? Ludoic and Graham? Project picks that we can afford to make because of our deep prospect pool. At least Graham is a PPG in the OHL currently.
Why make these types of picks? Because we had no more room to sign players due to the very good drafting the few years prior. So they take young defensemen that are either projects or headed the NCAA rout. I'm not sure what is so hard to grasp here.
I gave you three better choices than Ness, and do I need to list the good defensemen we could have had over Bailey like Karlson & Myers?
This old argument again. Stop thinking knowing what you know right now. Lets not pretend that everyone knew what Karlsson was going to become, let alone Bailey. I WOULD BET MY HOUSE, that had we picked Karlsson 9th overall, there would have been a chorus of people pissing and moaning that we should have taken Filatov, or if we wanted a defenseman, Schenn. I think we did alright there, considering. Bailey was second in OHL scoring only to the guy that got taken 1st overall if you recall. And the only other legitimate prospect we had at the time was Okposo.... so there was clearly a need at every position. Might I remind you (again) that we also took a ton of defensemen in this draft?
Even odds that maybe Jankowski would have crapped out on Tuebert or Schenn but it should have been looked at. I also wonder if we could have traded into the top tier of defensemen and gotten Bogosian or Pietrangelo.
Who were they going to trade? Okposo? THEY HAD NO ASSETS
Woa, hold on there. I've had this stance for three years Jester.
So you've over reacted, based on emotion for three years.
This is not panic due to this year's performance. This year's performance is a direct result of the neglect shown the defense by Garth, and perhaps because of Wang. Panic would suggest surprise. This year's falling apart did not surprise me at all. If Chapin was around he'd be able to tell you I said this was a problem over 18 months ago given the argument we had over it back then. This season is all the chickens on defense coming home to roost. And if Garth expected that Vis and his late career injury history was a thing of the past then what the hell have they been reading because it seemed like something just waiting to happen.
Defense is a big part of the problem, no doubt. But, if you analyze the situation, you will understand that
1. No legitimate FA was coming here. Period
2. The trades weren't there, and
3. The few that were, the player either had a NTC or we didn't have the assets to make it happen
4. The idea that we neglected the position during the draft is complete and utter fallacy.
5. The idea that Snow didn't add anyone is also, complete and utter fallacy (Streit, Wiz, Sutton, Witt, Vis)
That you didn't analyze the situation, makes me feel that you're looking at this emotionally.
