Is Vegas is a really bad position already?

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Ask any day one modern expansion franchise fan how they’d like if their first two years went like Vegas’.

 

[Sam Spade]

I think Nic Hague makes the team out of training camp over Whitecloud

Won't Engelland be back as well?

 

[Dirty Dan]

save a PP against san jose and they look pretty much unstoppable in playoffs esp with stone

their big blunder was 1+2+3 for tatar but pacioretty is a better player so they made do

 

[Jozay]

Being a cup contender is a bad position?

Just because a team is up against the cap doesnt mean that they're in a bad position. They'll sell off some guys, might have to sell them off for a little lower than they want, but they'll still be a cup contending team. Seems like a good position to be in to me.

 

[boredmale]

Not really if they get in a real bad cap situation I still think most their contracts would be easy to "dump"

 

[themelkman]

I dont like vegas but they are fine. Yeah they are gonna miss out on Gusev and give up some good stuff but probably still good enough for third in the div and a second round playoff run.

 

[valet]

I find it laughable that other gms are upset at Vegas for something that was their own damn fault.

They would have done the same ****ing thing if they were in Vegas situation.

If they really are acting like babies, then they all need to be fired and more professional gms need to be hired.

FIRE ALL THE GMS!

 

[HanSolo]

Even with Clarkson on LTIR, they need to sign 2 D that total no more than about 1.5.

It can be done obviously, but if you want to compete for a Cup, does:

McNabb-Schmidt
Holden-Theodore
Merrill-Whitecloud

sound like a Cup contending D?

Moving Clarkson with a sweetener is a much better option.

They made it to the Finals with virtually the same defense save for a less developed Theodore.

Vegas' gets by their weaker blueline with a well structured 5 man defense and defense through offense with higher offensive zone time. They've been top ten in shot suppression in both of their seasons to date (18-19: 5th overall, 17-18: 7th overall). I understand that's not everything that matters to a team's defense but people are too quick to assume that their defensive situation is worse than it actually is. They're not a gold standard of defense, but they're certainly not so bad that they can't contend either.

save a PP against san jose and they look pretty much unstoppable in playoffs esp with stone

their big blunder was 1+2+3 for tatar but pacioretty is a better player so they made do

It was still a silly trade in all fairness at least in terms of value and I'd say he's overpaid by at least 0.7-1m.

But like you said, they're making do. When that second line is healthy it's really tough to deal with.

They wouldn't have even made it to game 7 of the first round if it weren't for the refs.

And the game you're talking about wouldn't have been tied 3-3 if not for the refs.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

save a PP against san jose and they look pretty much unstoppable in playoffs esp with stone

their big blunder was 1+2+3 for tatar but pacioretty is a better player so they made do

They had already blown a 3-1 lead to let it go to game 7 and they received an awfully fortunate call in game 2 to make it a 3-1 series anyhow.

I disagree that their blunder was the price they paid for Tatar. Look at how he performed in Montreal this year. I would easily pay that price for that player. Their blunder was trading Tatar, and Nick Suzuki, in exchange for Max Pacioretty, and then signing him to a 4-year contract extension.

 

[Brazen331]

So what does this ‘bad position’ really mean? Maybe they have to trade Eakin or Reaves? So what? They are both only under contract for another year and will bring back a return.

Those who say they will have to include a draft pick to unload Reaves are crazy. Plenty of teams would like him on their 4th line. He is only overpaid for 1 year.

Maybe they have to trade Gusev? Big deal. He never played for them and was an expansion draft throw in.

Are teams with 20 million in Cap really better off?

I think they should trade Eakin and go with a 3rd line of Gusev-Glass-Tuch. How is that for a 3rd line? That could really rock.

 

[KCC]

Most teams are going to be up against the cap in a cap world. That's not a bad thing. The important thing is how they are built and Vegas is built solid. They will be competitive for some years.

 

[Dr Quincy]

They made it to the Finals with virtually the same defense save for a less developed Theodore.

Vegas' gets by their weaker blueline with a well structured 5 man defense and defense through offense with higher offensive zone time. They've been top ten in shot suppression in both of their seasons to date (18-19: 5th overall, 17-18: 7th overall). I understand that's not everything that matters to a team's defense but people are too quick to assume that their defensive situation is worse than it actually is. They're not a gold standard of defense, but they're certainly not so bad that they can't contend either.

They made it to the finals partly due to Fleury having a 2.24 GAA and .927 sv%. Just "slipping" to a merely "really good" 2.51/.913 and the team drops 16 pts and goes out in the 1st round.

The "meh" D worked one year, it didn't the other. Thinking that you don't have to improve it because it worked one year isn't the best way to build a contender. It's really not the best way to look at things. A better way is "Where can we improve?" Clearly that's D and right now they CAN'T (unless it's just through internal improvements) without moving Clarkson and Gusev.

 

[LeafGrief]

"In trouble because they have too many good players" is probably the dumbest HF-ism there is. It's a problem, but it's a good problem to have. There's too much beer in my fridge, so I have get my friend Dave to come and help me drink some! The horror of it all!

If they need to, they'll trade Pacioretty for a 3rd round draft pick and a Snickers bar. It sucks to lose value in a trade because of the cap, but when you've still got a good team at the end of the day, you're feeling great about yourselves. Calling it a bad position is nonsense.

 

[Sam Spade]

their big blunder was 1+2+3 for tatar but pacioretty is a better player so they made do

Not last season he wasn't.

 

[Sens]

They had already blown a 3-1 lead to let it go to game 7 and they received an awfully fortunate call in game 2 to make it a 3-1 series anyhow.

I disagree that their blunder was the price they paid for Tatar. Look at how he performed in Montreal this year. I would easily pay that price for that player. Their blunder was trading Tatar, and Nick Suzuki, in exchange for Max Pacioretty, and then signing him to a 4-year contract extension.

I showed how awesome Patches was after the first 16 games adjustment period

I seem to recall you ripping in the Blues all last off-season lol

 

[Pinkfloyd]

And the game you're talking about wouldn't have been tied 3-3 if not for the refs.

So what you're saying is that reffing goes against both teams and one has to overcome it in order to win a series? Funny that.

 

[General Disarray]

Their only blunder was the Tatar and Paccioretty trades.

Also I still believe they should have paid the price for Karlsson when they had the chance at the deadline, they would have won the cup.

 

[JoelWarlord]

No. They're capped out because they have a lot of really good players making basically market value and added an entire 1st line in a single season, not because they have overpaid depth guys (other than Reaves or maybe McNabb).

Eakin and Reaves are both expiring contracts they can move, and Gusev would return some cheap depth guys to replace them for under a million. Don't think they're in a ton of trouble even if they have to move a guy like Smith.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Their only blunder was the Tatar and Paccioretty trades.

Also I still believe they should have paid the price for Karlsson when they had the chance at the deadline, they would have won the cup.

Karlsson does nothing to help them win the cup. Dude was being held together by tape at that point. Stupid take.

As for their current situation, i think they'll be fine. If they're realllly hurting for cap space they could probably just dump Eakin on somebody after the season he had last year.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

I don't love that blue line but somehow its been good enough for them to be an elite team 2 years running. They have too many good forwards not really a problem.

They'll dump someone sooner rather than later.

 

[justafan22]

Will never understand how having too many quality players is seen as a negative. Literally the worst thing that can happen is they trade a player away for perhaps less that ideal return and still have a team filled with quality players. Whoever they end up moving, their top 6 is easily among the best in the NHL

Way worse to be a team with cap space and no quality players to fill it up.

this board values picks/prospects more than actual quality nhlers

 

[tony d]

They probably will figure things out. Still I think they end up moving Patches to help with their cap.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Saying Vegas is in a bad cap situation shows a complete mis-understanding of the salary cap. Having to make moves to get under the ceiling doesn't mean a team is in a bad cap situation. Vegas doesn't have a single bad contract short of Clarkson's LTIR which will expire next season.

A team is in a bad cap situation when they are loaded with bad contracts that cannot be moved, not when they need to get below the cap ceiling but don't have bad contracts.

 

[HanSolo]

So what you're saying is that reffing goes against both teams and one has to overcome it in order to win a series? Funny that.

Yeah I said that many times both during and after the series was over. With particular regard to the errant Eakin major, I still hold that the failure in that call generated the conditions that led to Vegas' demise but it was still their job not to collapse under the adversity they were faced with.

I'm not the one who said the refs won the series for San Jose.

They probably will figure things out. Still I think they end up moving Patches to help with their cap.

Lol I traded Patches back to Montreal for their first overall pick in EHM, signed Gusev to about 2.6, Dzingel to 1.8. The board and fans were furious that I traded Patches for a pick but with Gusev and Dzingel both being 50 point players I made it to the finals again, Montreal finished 31st, and I ended up with Lafreniere.

I wish that timeline could be real.

I don't love that blue line but somehow its been good enough for them to be an elite team 2 years running. They have too many good forwards not really a problem.

They'll dump someone sooner rather than later.

Also they've got a solid crop of #3-#6 potential defensive prospects behind Hague who has number 1-2 potential. It may not be the best situation now but one day they can run

Theodore-Hague
Schmidt-Schuldt (Hobey Baker finalist twice, I can't imagine he can't at least be a strong #4)
Whitecloud-Bischoff (both very defensively responsible but unflashy guys)

And sure that still won't be a world beating defense but it will be high enough above average. The real long term concern for this team is in net. Fleury won't last forever and Malcolm Subban doesn't seem like the guy to replace him.