Speculation: Is the NHL season in jeapordy?

[axlrose87]

I donf really have any long term preferred o side in most of these sports labor disputes. Both tend to be guided by greed.

In this specific situation though both sides agreed to thr cba during the pandemic, knowing full well the next season wasn't likely going to be "normal". So if the owners try to backout now, I hope they get taken to the cleaners via arbitration or the other legal avenues availible. Imo don't sign a deal if arent prepared to deal with the consequences.

That said, I think the safe bet is the two sides still come to a sort of compromise.

There is a clause in the current CBA that states they can cancel the season if it is not financially viable.
Cancelling the season is completely within the parameters of the contract they signed.
I hope the players realize this. The owners will exercise their rights within this current CBA if they stand to lose too much money.
It’s up to the players if they are willing to make financial compromises (the owners would be too with decreased revenue).

 

[Coachcorner]

tsn is talking bout that real progress now and here's the newest one: NHL, NHLPA skip finance talk, get right to what return to play could look like
Like they skipped the finance talk and talkin bout that what would it all look like scenario more. Tsn says it was a real productive open meeting etc. Things are really bout to move on and soon we'll be seeing that small black puck going in on the ice.

 

[axlrose87]

tsn is talking bout that real progress now and here's the newest one: NHL, NHLPA skip finance talk, get right to what return to play could look like
Like they skipped the finance talk and talkin bout that what would it all look like scenario more. Tsn says it was a real productive open meeting etc. Things are really bout to move on and soon we'll be seeing that small black puck going in on the ice.

Good to see they are talking..... but how do you “skip the finance part” when that seems to be the only part that matters.

 

[Coachcorner]

I wonder why we got our Joe Thorntons and Simmonds etc to play with us. In our greatest city of ice hockey. They finna play soon enoughs sire. I know it and so does Bettman, Gary.

The film The fan. Period. There is a peacul feeeling.

 

[hfman]

I am very excited for this new look Leafs team but I am growing concerned that there will not be a season.
What do people think?

if there's a season then game on. if not, well then not. that's something entirely out of your control. life will go on lol.

are you sure this is something you should be "concerned" about? do you maybe have other issues in your life that you should be concerned about instead?

 

[member 300185]

Bettman negotiated a deal. NHL BOD signed it. Players signed it.

Players came back to play based on this deal in COVID when they were already paid out last season too ... for owners benefit.

Ask yourself when da players lose 15% in escrow past 10 years every paycheck why are they funding da owners until true-up in late summer? Now when tables are reversed it is a NO GO. Players fund da owners for 8-10 months of each year.

People really need to think it through.

I hope we play hockey at all levels for sake of enjoyment of game. But from a NHL pro standpoint I hope we wait until October when we can resume as normal as season ticket holders.

Did you not go to school? Your post makes no sense with all the "Da's". Get a grip, it is "the", not "da". Do you not want people to take your posts seriously?

 

[egd27]

The NHL has actually lost significant steps to other leagues since Betteman came in, It's a big mistake to stick with him for 30 years

The NHL revenues were around $700M when Bettman came on board, they have increased to $5B under his leadership.

Now granted he makes some very unpopular decisions, (especially to Canadian fans) but I'm quite sure the majority of the owners are happy with the revenue increases.

 

[Stand Witness]

I donf really have any long term preferred o side in most of these sports labor disputes. Both tend to be guided by greed.

In this specific situation though both sides agreed to thr cba during the pandemic, knowing full well the next season wasn't likely going to be "normal". So if the owners try to backout now, I hope they get taken to the cleaners via arbitration or the other legal avenues availible. Imo don't sign a deal if arent prepared to deal with the consequences.

That said, I think the safe bet is the two sides still come to a sort of compromise.

My understanding is the negotiated CBA that happened during COVID was basically to determine the repayment terms of the players debt to the owners. At the end of the day, the players and owners split 50/50.

Again, from my understanding this current issue is basically the owners telling the players that their portion of the 50/50 split isn’t close to what was originally projected and here are the possible options to repay your portion.

I think the biggest problem is the idea that these contracts mean anything more than the 50/50 split. Those contracts are only as good as their portion and because of the way the cap is determined, I believe the owners are completely fair in their requests.

It is as simple as the players portion of the 50/50 will not be enough to support the current salary structure. Escrow shouldn’t be such a dirty word. Both the players and the league need to come together to market the game better. The players don't really help themselves with their lack of personality and desire to be anonymous and the owners haven’t given them the proper avenues via tv deals and marketing opportunities either. Play the season, accept the loss and sign a new US media deal and call it a year.

 

[ACC1224]

The NHL has actually lost significant steps to other leagues since Betteman came in, It's a big mistake to stick with him for 30 years

Show your work.

 

[justashadowof]

You can hate Bettman all you want but the league has financially grown steadily under his leadership. He's grown team membership and team viability. There's much more money in the players' pockets. He's transformed the product on the ice to a more family friendly product that gets at least some U.S. television network treatment which is very different than what was going on in the early 1990's. He also didn't ignore the plight of the Canadian franchises in the 1990's and developed measures to weather the storm of a weak Canadian dollar. Only the very small market of Quebec City was permanently lost as a franchise. That was a win.

All that glowing praise aside, Bettman is facing a much larger storm than he's ever faced. I expect a hostile environment for all pro sports going forward and like all things they go after the weakest link first. I can see the headlines coming soon: "Is It Even Possible For The NHL To Be A Sustainable Product?", "Can Cross-Border Pro Sports Leagues Persist?", "How NHL Games Are Killing Polar Bears".

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The NHL revenues were around $700M when Bettman came on board, they have increased to $5B under his leadership.

Now granted he makes some very unpopular decisions, (especially to Canadian fans) but I'm quite sure the majority of the owners are happy with the revenue increases.

Yes, and not only has revenues significantly increased, but players and owners share revenue 50/50%, which almost seems like a equitable, democratic type thing that has benefited all involved parties.

Does anybody know how a quorum to cancel the season would be formed?

I've heard that 10 to 12 teams have expressed an interest in cancelling the season. Apparently they estimate they will lose $60 m per club if they play the season, but only $15 million if they don't play.

So, if the 10 to 12 team number grows to 15 or 16, can they cancel the season? Owners would likely use the force majeure clause.

 

[X66]

The owners have always prioritized squeezing an extra penny out of the players rather than growing the game. Once upon a time, the NHL was far more profitable and popular than the NBA.

Underrated post.

 

[Deebo]

if there's a season then game on. if not, well then not. that's something entirely out of your control. life will go on lol.

are you sure this is something you should be "concerned" about? do you maybe have other issues in your life that you should be concerned about instead?

He can talk about his other issues in life with his family and friends, this is a hockey board though.

This is "concern" within a hockey context.

Having concern about one thing, doesn't stop you from being concerned about other things.

 

[Deebo]

Dude they basically played in the bubble without pay, other than playoff bonuses, with the agreement that they wouldn't have to face a rollback or deferred payments coming this season. Now the owners are pulling out the carpet from under them saying they need them to play with rollbacks and deferred payments. I'm usually on the side of owners as the players are making millions to play a game most of us would play for free or whatever, but the owners are solely to blame on this one.

They're so used to bending the players over the barrel in negotiations that they figure it is their right and they can get away with it whenever they need to play that card

The playoff bubble generated revenue, 50% of which the players are entitled to. They didn't receive pay checks, but it effects the how much will need to be paid back from escrow or is carried forward. The MOU does have a 10% defferral for 20/21

Anything the players reeceive that is over 50% of league revenues in 2020/21 will be carried forward to future years, so players who aren't in the league or on ELCs now will be footing the bill for vets and higher paid players who may end up retired or on lower salaries in the years where 20/21 balance is being paid.

 

[The CyNick]

The owners have always prioritized squeezing an extra penny out of the players rather than growing the game. Once upon a time, the NHL was far more profitable and popular than the NBA.

No extra pennies are being squeezed . It's a 50-50 revenue split.

 

[axlrose87]

if there's a season then game on. if not, well then not. that's something entirely out of your control. life will go on lol.

are you sure this is something you should be "concerned" about? do you maybe have other issues in your life that you should be concerned about instead?

Ummm are you being serious?
You are on a message board discussing whether NHL will be played this year. You chose to come on this site and discuss these things.
You are going to criticize people on this site who are “concerned”?
Yes, there are more important things in life. Isn’t it cool that we can think about more than one thing at the same time?

 

[Guy Boucher]

No extra pennies are being squeezed . It's a 50-50 revenue split.

Are you familiar with the time value of money?

 

[egd27]

The playoff bubble generated revenue, 50% of which the players are entitled to.

I think that's a little too simplistic a statement.

Without getting into the detail, they are "entitled" to share in 50% of the league revenues. The league revenues were significantly down, so it's fair to say the player's aren't due any more than they've received.

 

[Golden_Jet]

The playoff bubble generated revenue, 50% of which the players are entitled to. They didn't receive pay checks, but it effects the how much will need to be paid back from escrow or is carried forward. The MOU does have a 10% defferral for 20/21

Anything the players reeceive that is over 50% of league revenues in 2020/21 will be carried forward to future years, so players who aren't in the league or on ELCs now will be footing the bill for vets and higher paid players who may end up retired or on lower salaries in the years where 20/21 balance is being paid.

Unfortunately that doesn't make up for the last 13 games missed with no fans, and no fans in the playoffs. It is estimated the players owe 500 million after the playoffs.

 

[Welsh Maple Leaf]

if there's a season then game on. if not, well then not. that's something entirely out of your control. life will go on lol.

are you sure this is something you should be "concerned" about? do you maybe have other issues in your life that you should be concerned about instead?

What a weird post on a hockey forum

 

[Leafsfan74]

In the end they will come to an agreement. Why? It's beneficial to both sides. It's certainly going to be a challenge. Not just now, but for the foreseeable future, for all sports.

Going forward, the league needs to find a way to market the game better with players and in fact, play on the ice. Maybe out of desperation we will see the league push for more excitement and flash, call games to the letter, fully clamp down on any interference and the like. I've said for a long time that the NHL is the only league that doesn't protect it's own players and only recently have they tried to make it more "free flowing". It needs to continue drastically. Let the stars shine more than ever.

I know we are only talking about this season, but, they need a big story to get some attention, be it, Ovie going for Gretzkys record in the U.S capital, or the Leafs finally winning a Cup. Lafreniere having a monster year (more motivation to get the game into the fast, beautiful game, in the regular season AND post-season.). All of that can improve revenue in future years and make it more profitable for all sides.

 

[Deebo]

Unfortunately that doesn't make up for the last 13 games missed with no fans, and no fans in the playoffs. It is estimated the players owe 500 million after the playoffs.

They'd owe even more without the revenue generated by the playoffs.

 

[Crosscrease14]

The owners lose less money by cancelling the season with the cost of bubble playing and reduced/no gate.

Hopefully this gets the players motivated because as fans we want a season and I'm sure the players would want some kind of pay (even if it's less than they hoped).

 

[Menzinger]

There is a clause in the current CBA that states they can cancel the season if it is not financially viable.
Cancelling the season is completely within the parameters of the contract they signed.
I hope the players realize this. The owners will exercise their rights within this current CBA if they stand to lose too much money.
It’s up to the players if they are willing to make financial compromises (the owners would be too with decreased revenue).

I think the clause is a bit more complicated than your suggesting
The league would certainly be in for a very nasty legal fight of they tried to pull that.

At a glance of the league were to try and pull thst, it would definitely read like they made a completely bad faith agreement earlier to get the players to finish the last season, only to pull a fast one.

That said, I suspect there's only a small handful of teams at present whod consider 100% cancelation their desired option at this point in time

 

[Menzinger]

I think that's a little too simplistic a statement.

Without getting into the detail, they are "entitled" to share in 50% of the league revenues. The league revenues were significantly down, so it's fair to say the player's aren't due any more than they've received.

The league and players agreed when they signed the current cba to a series of mechanisms to allow them to offset costs. For example only having to pay 70% of real dollars of existing player salaries for next season.

The current cba is fairly complex and was negotiated by both sides with covid disruptions in mind.