Is Shattenkirk really available?

[Alklha]

Shattenkirk is our only defenseman that scores consistently. You don't let him go!! We have so-called offensive defenseman that don't score that are paid way more and aren't defensive defensemen.

I don't think there are any Blues fans that want to see Shattenkirk traded. The issue is that we have areas of the team that need addressed and you have to give to get. If we can fill those needs without moving Shattenkirk, and without needing extra cap space, then great. It's just not hugely realistic.

 

[Felix]

Management has some regular season ga,mes and at least 4 playoff games to see how Parayko progresses. It it's OK, I'm pretty sure Shatty will be dealt during/after draft day.
In reality, i have no dreams that Shatty brings us Draisaitl or a comparabble 1st line C. But I hope that someone like RNH could be acquired from Oilers for Shatty. And that would be not bad IMHO.

 

[BlueMagic]

I fully understand his offensive production and what he means to our powerplay, but he is our best trade chip. Parayko has shown great potential and has thrived under increased minutes which makes me believe he is ready to handle 2nd pairing duties. We've got serious holes up front, mainly at center, and we have no other choice than to trade from a point of strength or you could say excess. This offseason will be our chance to do a minor retool and really make sure our window is open for years to come.

 

[ManyIdeas]

I'm not sure that a decision can be made about trading Petro or Parayko until it's determined that Shatty will or will not sign here. He probably wants to go back to NY, but I could be completely off base with that. Who knows.

So it might make sense to keep 27/55. And I would obviously love 22 to stay.

 

[BlueMagic]

Shattenkirk can't defend other teams top players like Petro can. I also feel that his offensive contribution could go down if he was given Petro's role. This is what makes him the odd man out for me.

 

[carter333167]

With Parayko's emergence, we can afford to shop either Petro or Shatty but I would only trade either of them if we got an in incredible return on the deal. I don't think DA is the best at lateral trades so I doubt he could pull off a blockbuster win on such a trade.

Put another way, Parayko is the one D-Man I wouldn't shop at this point....he's untradeable.

 

[AVictoryDive]

Shattenkirk can't defend other teams top players like Petro can. I also feel that his offensive contribution could go down if he was given Petro's role. This is what makes him the odd man out for me.

This post best shows how I feel about Shatty. With Petro back he can get more favorable matchups rather than being exposed to other teams top lines. I would like to keep but in no way is he worth 7 million a year if that is what he is going to shoot for.

 

[BluesTraveller]

I know they are just words but the use of "exposed" when it comes to Shattenkirk and opposing team's top lines is hyperbole.

 

[AVictoryDive]

I know they are just words but the use of "exposed" when it comes to Shattenkirk and opposing team's top lines is hyperbole.

Maaybe first the first couple games with Petro out, but as he got more playing time his #s took a dip and he looked overmatched at times. Don't get me wrong I think he's great but not as the #1 option.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know they are just words but the use of "exposed" when it comes to Shattenkirk and opposing team's top lines is hyperbole.

He was a -5, with 0 ES points, 4 PP points in 9 games with Petro out of the lineup.

Shattenkirk has been pretty bad this year. His points/60 during 5 on 5 has been pathetic for his standards, both Edmundson and Bouwmeester have been better in that category. That's simply unacceptable.

 

[Spektre]

He was a -5, with 0 ES points, 4 PP points in 9 games with Petro out of the lineup.

Shattenkirk has been pretty bad this year. His points/60 during 5 on 5 has been pathetic for his standards, both Edmundson and Bouwmeester have been better in that category. That's simply unacceptable.

Do not share that info with opposing GM's!!!

 

[bleedblue1223]

Do not share that info with opposing GM's!!!

Haha. I do think Shattenkirk will rebound and he'll be just fine, players just have off years. I do think if we are critical of Pietrangelo's offensive game, we also need to be critical of Shattenkirk's. Petro's offensive game has been below par this year, but it's still in relation to roles, been much better than Shattenkirk's.

 

[BlueDream]

People will split stats any way they want it to form an argument but I've watched at least 60 games this year and in no way would I ever describe Shattenkirk's play as "bad" or "having an off year".

Even if he does get a lot of powerplay points, they still count the same and still help the team win. Do they not? That's just how it is. Sure I'd like him to produce more at even strength but I'd like a lot of players to produce more period. I mean if he kept the same powerplay stats AND improved his even strength production, he'd be scoring 60+ points as a defenseman. That's just unrealistic. Only 2, maybe 3, forwards on this roster consistently hit 60 points. And if Shattenkirk wasn't as good on the powerplay and our powerplay got worse, people wouldn't like that either. So, whatever.

Shattenkirk is way down on my list when talking about players that need to score more. He's not even among the top 5 biggest problems. Especially when you include the playoffs.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I don't think he's been a problem, but this has been a down year for his standards, and we should expect more out of him. Or it just means his offensive production of last season was unsustainable and he really isn't worth what he was looking like last year. There is a big difference between a mid 40 point producer, which he was before last season and is this season, and the 65 pace producer that he was last season. Even if he doesn't consistently hit 60+, to be an elite offensive guy, he needs to hit 50+ consistently, and with how he's used, he should be hitting that.

We can't pay Shattenkirk, Petro or Petro+ money to score in the mid 40s.

 

[Chojin]

Shattenkirk is insanely, crazily overrated, especially in comparisons with Pietrangelo. Let's take a look at those two, as well as Parayko and Bouwmeester, before and during Pietrangelo's nine-game absence. All stats are 5-on-5, score adjusted. 'PenD' is penalty differential (penalties drawn minus penalties taken), 'OZS%Rel' is the percentage of offensive zone starts, relative to the team (more positive means more time spent starting in the offensive zone), and 'TOIT' and 'TOIC' are the time-on-ice of teammates and competition, respectively (higher is better). Note that Pietrangelo was only out for 9 games, so these numbers represent a small sample size.

Before

[FONT="Courier New"]Player      Gm  G   A   P   G/60    P/60    PenD    CF%     OZS%Rel TOIT    TOIC    TOI
Pietrangelo 55  2   13  15  0.1     0.8     6       50.3    -5.9    17.3    17.5    19.4
Bouwmeester 51  1   11  12  0.1     0.8     -5      49.1    -5.5    17.7    17.5    18.3
Shattenkirk 45  4   5   9   0.4     0.7     -3      53.2    11.2    16.7    16.3    16.4
Parayko     52  4   10  14  0.3     1.0     0       54.4    3.4     16.9    17.2    16.4[/FONT]

Pietrangelo Injured

[FONT="Courier New"]Player      Gm  G   A   P   G/60    P/60    PenD    CF%     OZS%Rel TOIT    TOIC    TOI
Bouwmeester 9   1   1   2   0.4     0.8     1       50.7    0.9     17.2    17.6    17.2
Shattenkirk 9   0   0   0   0       0       -2      49.4    4.1     17.5    17.6    16.2
Parayko     9   0   5   5   0       2.1     1       51.1    2.4     16.5    17.4    15.8
[/FONT]

Looking at the periods in which Petro and Shatty were the the #1 RHD, there's just no comparison. Shatty failed to register as a single even-strength point in nine games, despite getting way more offensive zone starts than Petro ever did. He also had a negative Corsi and a negative penalty differential, indicating that he was a drag on possession. At the rate he was taking penalties, he would have taken 18 more penalties than he drew over an 82-game season. Note that this was all while playing fewer minutes and more offensive zone starts than Petro.

Let's compare Parayko and Shattenkirk when they're in the #2 RHD spot. Parayko crushes Shattenkirk in every category except Corsi (although Parayko still has a respectable 51.1%), despite getting much fewer offensive zone starts, playing with lower-quality teammates and against *much* higher-quality competition.

So remind me again why we should sign Shatty long-term for $7m+ when he can't do what Pietrangelo does in the #1 spot, he's only maginally better than Parayko in the #2 spot, and the only thing he does undeniably better than the competition is quarterback the PP (and even then, he puts us on the PK more than the PP)? I'd rather trade Shatty for a forward upgrade, put Parayko in his spot (#2 RHD at even strength, first-unit PP quarterback), and fix our poorly-coached PP that generates among the fewest chances in the league.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Right, a well-coached PP without Shatty should be more effective than a poorly-coached PP with Shatty. Maybe not more effective, but more consistent with the same level of effectiveness.

 

[Robb_K]

Right, a well-coached PP without Shatty should be more effective than a poorly-coached PP with Shatty. Maybe not more effective, but more consistent with the same level of effectiveness.

Yes. Currently, The Blues scoring rate of 21.8% is 6th in The NHL. They were at the top of the league with 30% early, went down as low as 16&, in the bottom 5. Which one is our REAL power play? They need a better zone entry. Poor zone entry is the reason they have one of the lowest SOG per power play in The NHL, but one of the higher shooting percentages, and goals per PP opportunity.

They also need to have more movement without the puck and driving towards the net and better screen setting.

 

[TomDelonge]

The powerplay has always relied too much on shatty. As fantastic as he is on the PP, moving him would force us to address the PP issues and that could be best in the long run.

 

[SteenMachine]

He was a -5, with 0 ES points, 4 PP points in 9 games with Petro out of the lineup.

Shattenkirk has been pretty bad this year. His points/60 during 5 on 5 has been pathetic for his standards, both Edmundson and Bouwmeester have been better in that category. That's simply unacceptable.

Kinda hard to pick up assists on a team where the forwards are miles away from anywhere a rebound could end up and can't hit an empty net from the edge of the crease.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Kinda hard to pick up assists on a team where the forwards are miles away from anywhere a rebound could end up and can't hit an empty net from the edge of the crease.

It's been like that all year for him, I just highlighted the 9 game stretch.

Also, if Shattenkirk was the dynamic piece that gets 7ish million, he shouldn't be relying on others for production, he should be one that is creating offense and generating production.

His top linemates during 5 on 5 are Tarasenko, Steen, Stastny, Backes, Brouwer, Lehtera, and Fabbri, in that order. He gets to play with the top offensive forwards in the top offensive situations. We need more production for him, simple as that.

 

[Ranksu]

But which team would be interested and able to get him under cap knowing Shattery will get ~7mill.$AAV contract?

Shattery don't have NTC yet so when it hits on his trade will be even harder to make and value will go down. Is there possibility to give him extension before July 1st, day what I assume his NTC will come to affect and then try trade him? I really don't know how these things goes.

 

[Chojin]

Kinda hard to pick up assists on a team where the forwards are miles away from anywhere a rebound could end up and can't hit an empty net from the edge of the crease.

That's funny; Parayko managed to get 4, and he played with way worse teammates with fewer offensive zone starts against only slightly easier competition than Shatty.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

But which team would be interested and able to get him under cap knowing Shattery will get ~7mill.$AAV contract?

Shattery don't have NTC yet so when it hits on his trade will be even harder to make and value will go down. Is there possibility to give him extension before July 1st, day what I assume his NTC will come to affect and then try trade him? I really don't know how these things goes.

Wait, he has a no trade clause that is going to kick in for the last year of his contract? Is that correct? I don't remember hearing about this.

 

[Dbrownss]

Wait, he has a no trade clause that is going to kick in for the last year of his contract? Is that correct? I don't remember hearing about this.

Not that I know of

 

[2 Minute Minor]

Not that I know of

What the hell are you talking about Ranksu? You gave me a panic attack.