Is Schenn a Core Piece?
- Thread starter Lotusflower
- Start date
No doubt. I'm not trying to minimize Giroux, but Simmer, Voracek, and Scehnn are still going to be able to put the puck in the net if Giroux ia replaxed with the Neck or Filp or Coots. The top PP unit is definitely worse without Giroux, but the second unit would not be better than the first just because Giroux is there and in a pinch you're going to put out that Giroux-less unit over the second unit if you need a goal. Obviously, you'd actually be putting Giroux on that unit, but if for some reason you couldn't, you're running Schenn-Coots-Simmer with Voracek on the point over Neck-Giroux-Filp with Weal on the point (or whatever the second unit is in this scenario)
hatcher
Registered User
G was terrible in between simmonds and weal and when switched out with filp the line had good chemistry. V ****ed up filp to.
Embiid
Off IR for now
Embiid
Off IR for now
Juicy Pop
BONK
I'm not sure how much stock I put in to the fact that he seemed to be improving little by little each year. Maybe I was fooling myself into thinking that he could be something more?
Brayden Fattison
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2013
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I always suspected that he might have another gear reserved for deep in the playoffs. I think his regular season and early playoff level has pretty much peaked. FWIW, the pro-Flyers analytics weenies are soiling their tightly-pressed khakis (in a good way) because we got rid of him. So there's that.
Beef Invictus
Revolutionary Positivity
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
Nowhere is it written that Core Pieces cannot be traded... See Richards, Michael and Carter, Jeff for starters... We discussed this before IIRC... Gretzky was a Core Piece who was traded more than once.
When a GM can in his mind improve his Team with a Trade, he often times does... Core or no Core... And I'd say that two First Round Selections in return for a Player in this day is a good indication, and even one is a good sign. He got a Player back -- granted a Cap Dump to the Blues, but at one less Contract Season than Schenn -- and two, or possibly three Selections back for his Core Player... as I see things.
BTW: I thought this Thread would be revived, as soon he was traded.
When a GM can in his mind improve his Team with a Trade, he often times does... Core or no Core... And I'd say that two First Round Selections in return for a Player in this day is a good indication, and even one is a good sign. He got a Player back -- granted a Cap Dump to the Blues, but at one less Contract Season than Schenn -- and two, or possibly three Selections back for his Core Player... as I see things.
BTW: I thought this Thread would be revived, as soon he was traded.
Ruck Over
When the revolution comes, pants will do you no gd
Have you not seen the thread before? "...much careful consideration..." too you all of what, a second, maybe two seconds?
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DecadesofFutility
Registered User
I was thinking he was a supporting piece before, and this trade confirms to me that Hextall thought he had reached his peak.
So he gambled that one of the two 1st he got back will be a better player than Brayden Schenn.
ChiefWiggum
Registered User
Schenn is not the player he was expected to be. He has a great knack of scoring goals on the PP, but he can't get much done 5 on 5, hes very slow (and we have enough slow players) and his usage on the PP is very limited. There many be PP opportunities where he will stay in his spot in the slot on the 1-3-1 setup and not touch the puck. So essentially, he was an expendable piece. We will not know if this trade works until a couple years down the road but then again, we aren't winning championships until a couple years down the road anyways so whats the good if Schenn scores 20 goals or so for us in 2018 and 2019?
Conclusion: at first I was confused by the trade but when I rationalize it, it does make sense.
Conclusion: at first I was confused by the trade but when I rationalize it, it does make sense.
Core pieces can be traded, yeah. They don't get traded for futures though unless the team is committing to a rebuild. We're not, we've already rebuilt for all intents and purposes.
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
There are various types of assets... but in the end, an asset is an asset... and you have options of how you use them and when you can use them.
If you are offered assets that you feel is beneficial to your Team you might pull the trigger... and, looking at the Team as an ongoing entity, dealing and tending to the Future is every bit as important as immediate use.
One lauded praise of Hetall is his patience... and his looking forward as well as in the present. Hextall said that he like next Season's Draft and was happy to be able to gain another first rounder in it... and he like the Player late in this First that he took (paraphrased)... Two picks plus losing a Contract when Simmonds Contract would be upped... and a possible 3rd early Pick plus a depth bottom Center for the next couple Seasons at a lower Cap is a real decent return in today's NHL for a Cap Player below elite star status.
And FWIW... the rebuild/retool of the Organization is still in process... and if we are looking towards an extended run at the Cup(s), the returns on Schenn may play into that.
Because Schenn was traded for the Future does not preclude his being a Core that was moved... After all, while not a similar Deal, we can recall the many current Players and Assets that the Flyers traded to Quebec for a Future (Lindros) some of which was at that time Core Players.
... But rationalize as you wish... the 'term' Core Player is defined as each person deems fit, I suppose. I just personally feel that a non-Core Player reaping two First Round Selections is quite extraordinary in today's NHL.
I'm not sure why you had to throw half of that post at me as, aside from being pretty basic, it has nothing to do with my comment or the topic at hand.
Also don't know how you can say that this is a rationalization on my part then, quite literally one sentence later, admit to how the definition of core player is subjective to begin with. But, yeah, I'm not gonna bother arguing about a topic as insignificant as this, especially with someone who comes off as condescending and argumentative out of nowhere.
healthyscratch
Registered User
Wow this thread must've been a beauty, can't believe I missed it. Might have to start from the beginning.
Captain Dave Poulin
Imaginary Cat
"Core player" gets ambiguous (I voted no).
But after this trade, hard to argue they traded a core player, as core players are pretty difficult in an organization's mind to move.
Now, it could have been difficult for them to make that decision, but I'm not confident it was. Seemed to happen fast. The two 1sts helped. Schenn's desire to center probably helped. The low hockey IQ probably helped. The overall impression I'm getting is that they didn't spend "core player" time on considering this move, regardless of what they say publically.
But after this trade, hard to argue they traded a core player, as core players are pretty difficult in an organization's mind to move.
Now, it could have been difficult for them to make that decision, but I'm not confident it was. Seemed to happen fast. The two 1sts helped. Schenn's desire to center probably helped. The low hockey IQ probably helped. The overall impression I'm getting is that they didn't spend "core player" time on considering this move, regardless of what they say publically.
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
I thought I was responding to what I highlighted in the Quote... If I didn't limit to you entirely, it is because it is an open Thread and the discussion is a rolling one.
Didn't mean to come off as condescending nor argumentative... and by no means did I come out of nowhere on this... merely discussing and responding. I'm sorry if I annoyed you in any manner; my apologies.
The 'rationalization' remark was mainly directed at your alluding to Schenn not being a Core Player because the return on trading him was for the future rather than the present. JMO
EDIT: Would it had helped if I said, "Rationalize as WE wish"? Which is really what I was getting at... and not 'you' individually.
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Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
From what I'm gathering there were offers from within the Division, which Hexy passed on... and interest from the Habs, which Montreal ultimately didn't finalize thinking cost was too steep... Not sure timing of discussions, nor if it all was Schenn centered or First Round Selection based... In any case I think Hexy was offered a Deal that he couldn't refuse, with the Prospects needing slots in the forefront of his mind. A Core Player had to be moved to clear the way a bit.
Sawdalite
SelectLouNolan4PFHoF
I don't know about that... just both sides of the aisle digging in their heels and going back and forth a bit.
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