Is Schenn a Core Piece?

[Striiker]

The way I read that is that the "club source" said they have no intention of trading any of the core. Then the writer laid out who he thinks is the core. I seriously doubt the source actually named names.

And Panaccio saying something doesn't make it true. He's as intelligent as the least knowledgeable people on this board... his word means exactly nothing.

 

[Sawdalite]

The way I read that is that the "club source" said they have no intention of trading any of the core. Then the writer laid out who he thinks is the core. I seriously doubt the source actually named names.

And Panaccio saying something doesn't make it true. He's as intelligent as the least knowledgeable people on this board... his word means exactly nothing.

Might be the case... then again, might not be the the case. The sentence is ambiguous as written... The Sources may have gone into detail; we cannot be certain... But IMO, Schenn certainly deserves to be a core player... and we traded our then Captain to bring him (and Simmonds+) in here, back when he was a King's high Prospect... I just cannot cite this as a definite deciding source.


Say what you will about Timmy... but we must keep in mind that he is an insider and does have an inside track with the Organization Management and the Players... and also the 'Sources' and what he overhears/oversees... the MOST knowledgeable people on this Board doesn't have that... The Insiders cannot be ignored... and the best on this Board cannot be taken as gospel. In other words; I take this article FWIW and combined to what I see and common sense I believe that it only adds to the case that Schenn is a Core Player... and certainly doesn't make any case for his not being one.

... In any case, I just thought that I should share it in this Thread... with honest candor.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Might be the case... then again, might not be the the case. The sentence is ambiguous as written... The Sources may have gone into detail; we cannot be certain... But IMO, Schenn certainly deserves to be a core player... and we traded our then Captain to bring him (and Simmonds+) in here, back when he was a King's high Prospect... I just cannot cite this as a definite deciding source.


Say what you will about Timmy... but we must keep in mind that he is an insider and does have an inside track with the Organization Management and the Players... and also the 'Sources' and what he overhears/oversees... the MOST knowledgeable people on this Board doesn't have that... The Insiders cannot be ignored... and the best on this Board cannot be taken as gospel. In other words; I take this article FWIW and combined to what I see and common sense I believe that it only adds to the case that Schenn is a Core Player... and certainly doesn't make any case for his not being one.

... In any case, I just thought that I should share it in this Thread... with honest candor.

I can tell you from experience with 100% ironclad certainty that it is incredibly easy to take any quote, from any source, and manipulate it to your ends. These beat writers (not just Timmeh, and not just in Philadelphia) have the mindset of the gossipmongers at TMZ or US magazine - I have seen this first-hand in person more times than I could count. I'm not disputing your read of the quote, just preaching caution - it would take a lot of reading between the lines (in addition to taking into consideration the source's intention/lack of intention/lack of transparency with the quote) to get to the truth of it. In the best case, it is very ambiguous.

 

[Lindberg]

In any regards the question isn't does Hextall see him as a core piece, the question is do you.So discussion of Hextall and etc. is not relevant.

To backtrack somewhat no one ever said Schenn is useless just a few of us don't view him as a core piece and more as a solid trade piece if the right pieces come along. If I recall correctly at first he had trouble sliding in the #1 PP and there was quite the lengthy discussion was he the right player which suggests to me that the high slot man is easiest removable piece since that has already been done before without much consequence.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Hexy... or at least "Club Sources"... are including Schenn in the Veteran Core... and at the very Tim Pinaccio is reporting him as such... depending on the interpretation of the remark. In any case they are G, Jake, Simmer and Schenn... I'm assuming the key rookies and Ghost... are not even considered to be in the mix, and therefore not listed as Core Players. Also, it is not clear if the D-Men or Goalies were included in the discussion with the 'Club Sources'.


Source Article: http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-flyers/claude-giroux-possible-trade-flyers-im-not-leaving?cid=email:CSN%20Philly%20Team%20Newsletters:2015+-+CSNPhilly+Flyers+Update:23770

I wouldnt expect a different answer from Hextall. Even if he had intentions of trading a veteran core player off this team he isnt going to come out and say it.

 

[Sawdalite]

I can tell you from experience with 100% ironclad certainty that it is incredibly easy to take any quote, from any source, and manipulate it to your ends. These beat writers (not just Timmeh, and not just in Philadelphia) have the mindset of the gossipmongers at TMZ or US magazine - I have seen this first-hand in person more times than I could count. I'm not disputing your read of the quote, just preaching caution - it would take a lot of reading between the lines (in addition to taking into consideration the source's intention/lack of intention/lack of transparency with the quote) to get to the truth of it. In the best case, it is very ambiguous.

... And what reason pray tell would Timmy have to include anyone of those Players as a Core Player when they ween't considered so by the Organization?... Do you honestly believe that he wants to raise Schenn up to the level of a Core Player -- or any of the others, for that matter -- and wants to make things up so the Fans are fooled by him... for soe reason or another.

... And how was this an article of gossip mongering like TZ etal? If anything, wasn't the article defusing the rumor out there that the Core would be shaken up by trade, to make a change in an under-performing Team? You might say that about some articles out there... but I just don't see it on THIS one.

I'm not saying that any interpretation is the iron clad correct one... I'm just putting it out there in it's naked glory... pointing out the various options... and suggesting that those Players are the Core by at least Pinaccio... and at best Hextall.

 

[Sawdalite]

In any regards the question isn't does Hextall see him as a core piece, the question is do you.So discussion of Hextall and etc. is not relevant.

To backtrack somewhat no one ever said Schenn is useless just a few of us don't view him as a core piece and more as a solid trade piece if the right pieces come along. If I recall correctly at first he had trouble sliding in the #1 PP and there was quite the lengthy discussion was he the right player which suggests to me that the high slot man is easiest removable piece since that has already been done before without much consequence.

NO... The question IS... "Is Schenn a Core Player"... per the Poll and the Thread Title.

If the Organization and Hextall believe he is... Dude, HE IS.


EDIT: As to the second part of the Post... Who says that a Core Player can't be traded... nor that any Player is not open to a trade, for the right return?... And what the hell is it you saying in that final part????

 

[Sawdalite]

I wouldnt expect a different answer from Hextall. Even if he had intentions of trading a veteran core player off this team he isnt going to come out and say it.

I believe that he said that Hextall would address it after the Season... The point was the names of the Core Players mentioned in the article... The possibility of a trade is another story for another Thread, as I see it. haha

 

[Tripod]

... And what reason pray tell would Timmy have to include anyone of those Players as a Core Player when they ween't considered so by the Organization?... Do you honestly believe that he wants to raise Schenn up to the level of a Core Player -- or any of the others, for that matter -- and wants to make things up so the Fans are fooled by him... for soe reason or another.

... And how was this an article of gossip mongering like TZ etal? If anything, wasn't the article defusing the rumor out there that the Core would be shaken up by trade, to make a change in an under-performing Team? You might say that about some articles out there... but I just don't see it on THIS one.

I'm not saying that any interpretation is the iron clad correct one... I'm just putting it out there in it's naked glory... pointing out the various options... and suggesting that those Players are the Core by at least Pinaccio... and at best Hextall.

By that same reasoning, Couts is not a core player because Timmy didn't mention him when mentioning the core players. Right?

I just don't think you can use what Timmy said as proof of anything....and remember, I said that Schenn is a core player on today's team. I just don't think he is a core player for our future winning team.

 

[Sawdalite]

By that same reasoning, Couts is not a core player because Timmy didn't mention him when mentioning the core players. Right?

I just don't think you can use what Timmy said as proof of anything....and remember, I said that Schenn is a core player on today's team. I just don't think he is a core player for our future winning team.

... Only if the same reasoning is with omissions and inclusions.

Schenn was included which states Schenn is a Core Player... while Coots was included, which could have been a mistake of omission... Not the same thing to me... and doesn't mean anything in the discussion, IMO.

Also, it may be that in the discussions with the Sources... or with the Organization... Coots was not in the mix -- not questioned -- for one reason or another... Who knows?

I was by no means using Tim's article as proof... merely using it FWIW... with caveats... to suggest that the Organization may believe Schenn is a Core Player... Also, let's keep in mind that we have nothing suggesting the Organization does NOT feel that way... All we have are so many Posters' opinions. Do we hold them in higher regard than a Flyers Insider, or his Sources?... depending on interpretation of the article.

 

[Lindberg]

NO... The question IS... "Is Schenn a Core Player"... per the Poll and the Thread Title.

If the Organization and Hextall believe he is... Dude, HE IS.


EDIT: As to the second part of the Post... Who says that a Core Player can't be traded... nor that any Player is not open to a trade, for the right return?... And what the hell is it you saying in that final part????

The first post of this thread is this

"Bar argument that I decided to put to a poll here.

As of the end of the 16-17 season do you view Brayden Schenn as piece of our team's core going forward? "

so perhaps try reading.

As for the last part Hartnell was the high slot man and was traded without any real long term consequence on the PP. To suggest trading Schenn and that the #1 PP won't recover is pretty baseless.

 

[Sawdalite]

The first post of this thread is this

"Bar argument that I decided to put to a poll here.

As of the end of the 16-17 season do you view Brayden Schenn as piece of our team's core going forward? "

so perhaps try reading.

As for the last part Hartnell was the high slot man and was traded without any real long term consequence on the PP. To suggest trading Schenn and that the #1 PP won't recover is pretty baseless.

... I read both the Poll Question and the Thread Title every time I come here... they both ask if he IS a Core Player... Dude, I'm not going to go back and read the OP over and over again. haha... Of course it is what we think when we Vote... but shouldn't the Vote -- what we think -- be based on solid ground? Isn't what the Organization... and most notably, their GM... think about as solid ground as you can get?

... And just because the Flyers may have lucked out in the transition from Hartnell to Schenn doesn't mean they will do so every time... or a majority of the time... or once in a while... or even ever... Don't fool yourself in believing they will always have a seamless transition.

What is baseless is the claim that because their PP has been able to evolve over a certain period, that they will be able to move a proven Player... who is doing a great job... and not feel negative effects... merely because they got away with it before.

In many ways they have missed Hartnell's output... You don't just move productive Players willy-nilly.

 

[DecadesofFutility]

The first post of this thread is this

"Bar argument that I decided to put to a poll here.

As of the end of the 16-17 season do you view Brayden Schenn as piece of our team's core going forward? "

As for the last part Hartnell was the high slot man and was traded without any real long term consequence on the PP. To suggest trading Schenn and that the #1 PP won't recover is pretty baseless.

No reason for Flyers to lower the value of an asset that they maybe ready to unload in the off season.

 

[Lindberg]

No reason for Flyers to lower the value of an asset that they maybe ready to unload in the off season.

Where did I suggest that the flyers should lower Schenn's value?

I'm not sold that this is the right collection of forwards for the flyers to have and they would be better off by moving a core forward if the right deal came along. This team is among the bottom of ES points being scored which I largely blame on a) the coaching staff and b) the forward core. If two of Morin/Hagg/Sanheim/Myers make the team next year there isn't much to do in the way of changing out the defense.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

Schenn doesn't "drive play" he just scores 60 points a year.

You know who "drives play", that all the stat guys love? Raffl and Read. You win games by scoring goals. ES goals, PP goals, and SH goals all count the same.

You can keep play drivers like Raffl and Read. I'll gladly take Schenn.

Keep reading twitter with the BSH stooges slandering a 60 point winger cause he doesn't drive play, all while telling you how wonderful Matt Read and Raffl are.

Oh yea, those same guys are rooting for Ovechkin and the caps to finally win a cup this season......

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

That post is a huge L.

 

[LI Fly Guy]

That post is a huge L.

Yup claiming a 60 point player is better than Read and Raffl is a huge L.

 

[DecadesofFutility]

Where did I suggest that the flyers should lower Schenn's value?

I'm not sold that this is the right collection of forwards for the flyers to have and they would be better off by moving a core forward if the right deal came along. This team is among the bottom of ES points being scored which I largely blame on a) the coaching staff and b) the forward core. If two of Morin/Hagg/Sanheim/Myers make the team next year there isn't much to do in the way of changing out the defense.

I didn't mean to suggest that if he wasn't a core piece it would lower his value.
I just meant that Hextall would deny he has any interest in trading Schenn, Giroux, Vorachek, etc...
no reason to reduce their value in a season where the team under performed.
I get the feeling that most of players are ok with their progress and the direction of the team.
This complacency is why change needs to come in the top 9.

I quoted you be cause I agree that the forwards play at ES is very lacking.
Good teams score at ES, to depend upon the PP for scoring is a path to disappointment. As this season has shown.
These players have been with Flyers for years now, they are the problem, not Haks bizarre coaching decisions.

 

[Lindberg]

I didn't mean to suggest that if he wasn't a core piece it would lower his value.
I just meant that Hextall would deny he has any interest in trading Schenn, Giroux, Vorachek, etc...
no reason to reduce their value in a season where the team under performed.
I get the feeling that most of players are ok with their progress and the direction of the team.
This complacency is why change needs to come in the top 9.

I quoted you be cause I agree that the forwards play at ES is very lacking.
Good teams score at ES, to depend upon the PP for scoring is a path to disappointment. As this season has shown.
These players have been with Flyers for years now, they are the problem, not Haks bizarre coaching decisions.

Gotcha. Yeah I'm not sure how much longer this team should continue to tread water. If the same core is here next year and even strength play does not improve, the following year should not contain the same forward core period. Next year should be the final make or break year for them. There isn't any excuse this team should rival the Avs ES play.

 

[Tripod]

Next year will be the 1st year in a long time where we have enough depth to ice 3 lines that can score. Also having a 4th line that is not a black hole offensively should help too.

We still lack natural scorers/shooters even with the above happening.

 

[deadhead]

Hmm, wonder why Hextall drafted Allison and the Bunnyman?

 

[DecadesofFutility]

Next year will be the 1st year in a long time where we have enough depth to ice 3 lines that can score. Also having a 4th line that is not a black hole offensively should help too.

We still lack natural scorers/shooters even with the above happening.

Our problem is not really depth, its quality scorers.
We have players like Raffl and Read who provided some scoring and depth before this year.
But they are streaky like the rest of the forward core.

Unless Weal or Konecny blossom and become the natural scorers we need,
the team is still on the bubble to reach the playoffs next year.
I doubt Hextall wants to put that much pressure on them to produce goals.
That is why a trade of Schenn should be entertained in the off season.
The addition of a natural scorer would greatly enhance 5V5 play, and
increase the possibility of playoff hockey.

 

[Lotusflower]

Hmm, wonder why Hextall drafted Allison and the Bunnyman?

What? If any of the late round guys we've picked up become even solid bottom sixers it'll be a win.

We need elite talent especially shooters/goal scorers that can bring heat at ES.
We cant bank on guys like Bunnaman/Allison/whoever becoming anything more than depth.

Even late firsts like Rubtsov arent anything close to a guarantee.

Its the reason why we've been tossing around the idea of trading our valuable but inessential assets. If we continue to tread water it will be hard to reel in the elite forward talent we need without dealing something in return.

 

[DecadesofFutility]

What? If any of the late round guys we've picked up become even solid bottom sixers it'll be a win.

We need elite talent especially shooters/goal scorers that can bring heat at ES.
We cant bank on guys like Bunnaman/Allison/whoever becoming anything more than depth.

Even late firsts like Rubtsov arent anything close to a guarantee.

Its the reason why we've been tossing around the idea of trading our valuable but inessential assets. If we continue to tread water it will be hard to reel in the elite forward talent we need without dealing something in return.

I advocate trying to pry Duchene away from Colo.
He is a good ES player and will slot in nicely behind Giroux.
Stockpiling more late first round picks is nice for depth, but
we need acquire elite forward talent.
I would offer Schenn & 1st as first offer.
Second offer would be Schenn & D-man either Myers/Hagg.
Colorado may want to shake up their core as well.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Colorado is headed for a full rebuild. They're going to want young guys with contract control/flexibility for a while not guys like Schenn who's the same age as Duchene & on a similar contract.