Is Ivan Provorov (Flyers) a "Franchise" D Man ? Thoughts...

[JP Nolan]

While i believe Provorov is an excellent young DMAN, I do not believe at this time he is a number one "franchise" Defenseman. Doughty, Hedman, Suter, Webber, Subban, this ilk ?


I would like to get a consensus on what fans of other teams think and not Flyer fans.

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[93LEAFS]

He's isn't at this time. There really isn't anything outside of raw 5V5 points you can point to that makes him elite, and a bunch of that is driven by ice-time.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Not yet IMO.

 

[Brock Radunske]

If Sanheim reaches his potential, he'll probably be a better bet to be a franchise D.

 

[Esq]

Bump the thread in 3 years and we'll see.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

While i believe Provorov is an excellent young DMAN, I do not believe at this time he is a number one "franchise" Defenseman. Doughty, Hedman, Suter, Webber, Subban, this ilk ?


I would like to get a consensus on what fans of other teams think and not Flyer fans.

I think even with the guys you mentioned we waited 2-3 seasons before saying they WERE franchise d-men. Before that, we were calling them 'potential' franchise d-men because a lot of growth still had to happen/they had to pan out. I don't think it's unfair to call Provy a potential franchise d-men and he's certainly exhibiting a lot of the same signs, but I wouldn't call him the franchise guy yet.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I wouldn't put him in the same tier as Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Hedman, Slavin. He's a tier below those guys.

 

[zaYG]

I wouldn't put him in the same tier as Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Hedman, Slavin. He's a tier below those guys.

He is only 20, and I am not sure he is even in the tier below the guys above. However, he is an excellent player and I bet he can be close to that level in 3-5 years.

 

[Connor McConnor]

He's 20 years old averaging almost 0.5 ppg (which is an improvement from his 19 yr old rookie season) over 22 minutes a game against the other teams' top players. He is 100% going to be a franchise d-man. I've watched this guy play since junior and his offensive game has not yet translated in the NHL but you can see that it will come. It's widely agreed that a D-man doesn't hit his prime until 25-26 so the ceiling for this guy is so damn high and his floor is already a top pairing dman IMO.

 

[rent free]

not yet but he will be i guess

 

[JP Nolan]

Bump the thread in 3 years and we'll see.

Some Flyer fans telling me his is Currently. Thats why i asked.

 

[Esq]

Some Flyer fans telling me his is Currently. Thats why i asked.

Understood. But they can't tell right now -- no one can.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Some Flyer fans telling me his is Currently. Thats why i asked.

Did it come up in terms of value? Because if so, you absolutely have to treat him like one.

You would have had a hard time getting me to move sophomore year Doughty for damn near any player in the league even though it was clear how much more he had to learn--these guys just have the look of sponges that will absorb everything around them and continue to grow.

 

[Dod93Cityt]

Where did you find someone say Provorov is currently in the same tier as those guy?

 

[Tripod]

Some Flyer fans telling me his is Currently. Thats why i asked.

Now tell the truth what you said. Here are the quotes you said and why people had issue with them:

"Provorov to me looks like a great number 3 defenseman or maybe a compliment number 2 guy to a real number one guy."

"Provy is a nice 3-4 guy on a bunch of teams but i agree he would be a one or your team. Trouble is i see them promoting the Ghost kid alot more then Provy........I will say they are a great 3-4 tandem."

And only 1 person used the word "franchise"....and that was you. Yes Flyers fans Provy is already a #1 Dman.

Also you said McAvoy is a franchise #1 Dman: "Charlie McAvoy, thats what a young future number one franchise DMAN looks like."

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/hawks-chicago-and-flyers-philadelphia-re-tool.2421749/page-3

Now at least people know the reason behind this thread.

 

[Dod93Cityt]

Now tell the truth what you said. Here are the quotes you said and why people had issue with them:

"Provorov to me looks like a great number 3 defenseman or maybe a compliment number 2 guy to a real number one guy."

"Provy is a nice 3-4 guy on a bunch of teams but i agree he would be a one or your team. Trouble is i see them promoting the Ghost kid alot more then Provy........I will say they are a great 3-4 tandem."

And only 1 person used the word "franchise"....and that was you. Yes Flyers fans Provy is already a #1 Dman.

Also you said McAvoy is a franchise #1 Dman: "Charlie McAvoy, thats what a young future number one franchise DMAN looks like.".

I figured it was gonna be something along these lines

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Not yet though he has that potential

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Not right now but he has the potential. I just think that he has the defensive abilities of a Vlasic or a Doughty and he does have above average offensive abilities. If he received top PP time, he may have better numbers but he isnt taking Ghost out of that spot. Give him 2-3 more years and he may be a Norris contender year in and year out.

My question is: what is a franchise D man exactly. I see a "franchise D man" as the elite of the number ones. I would see some number ones like Fowler, Slavin, McDonagh, Klingberg and Vlasic as not being true "franchise D men" because they arent elite at both offense and defense. To be honest, I do believe that Provorov's ceiling is above those previously mentioned

 

[Tripod]

He's 20 years old averaging almost 0.5 ppg (which is an improvement from his 19 yr old rookie season) over 22 minutes a game against the other teams' top players. He is 100% going to be a franchise d-man. I've watched this guy play since junior and his offensive game has not yet translated in the NHL but you can see that it will come. It's widely agreed that a D-man doesn't hit his prime until 25-26 so the ceiling for this guy is so damn high and his floor is already a top pairing dman IMO.

Why do people keep saying this?

Provorov is tied for 8th in ES points for Dmen. And that's on a team that is middle of the road at scoring at ES...tied for 17th. He will not put up top point because Ghost gets the #1PP time. It has nothing to do with Provy, but how good Ghost is on the PP....Ghost is tied for #1 in the league in PP points.

Even so...Provy is on pace for 41 points this year...had 30 last year.

Since entering the league last year, he is 21st in ES points and 45th in points overall for Dmen.

This "myth" about his offense not translating is just that, a myth.

 

[ViD]

I wouldn't put him in the same tier as Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Hedman, Slavin. He's a tier below those guys.

Did you really put Slavin in that list ?

 

[The Moose is Loose]

No

 

[Rebels57]

How many defensemen in history have been their teams #1 dman by the 3rd month of their rookie season at age 19? I can't imagine there have been many.

He's already their franchise defensemen and will continue to get better and better over the next 3-4 years.

I really can't stress enough how much of a drag playing Andrew MacDonald is on some of his metrics though..so if you don't actually watch him play regularly you might not understand how good he is.

 

[sparxx87]

I wouldn't put him in the same tier as Doughty, Karlsson, Subban, Hedman, Slavin. He's a tier below those guys.

One of these players is not like the others.

Re; OP - He seems to be trending in that direction, but the body of work is still too small. Be patient and allow him to keep doing what he’s doing. He’ll get recognition in due time.

 

[Rebels57]

Why do people keep saying this?

Provorov is tied for 8th in ES points for Dmen. And that's on a team that is middle of the road at scoring at ES...tied for 17th. He will not put up top point because Ghost gets the #1PP time. It has nothing to do with Provy, but how good Ghost is on the PP....Ghost is tied for #1 in the league in PP points.

Even so...Provy is on pace for 41 points this year...had 30 last year.

Since entering the league last year, he is 21st in ES points and 45th in points overall for Dmen.

This "myth" about his offense not translating is just that, a myth.

Misconceptions are hard to eliminate.

 

[Tripod]

Misconceptions are hard to eliminate.

Love the new avatar btw!