The Old Master
come and take it.
kind of shocked and saddened .....he was a guy I wanted on the pen's back when we had players to trade.
Improving the Stars 101
- Thread starter LT
- Start date
kind of shocked and saddened .....he was a guy I wanted on the pen's back when we had players to trade.
tjcurrie
Registered User
Size and strength always matter.
Let's just look at our own, Jamie Benn.
Is he as effective as a player with the same skill-set but minus the size and strength and physicality? Of course not. It's a big part of his...uh...package. You hear players talk about trying to handle him, and that's what they talk about.
If you can add that stuff, you do it.
One skilled guy lacking size, one big guy lacking skill, 9/10 you take the skill (you may opt for the size, depending)
Two guys with the same skill, one guy lacks size and the other has it, you go with the size 10/10.
Any GM/coach prefers a guy who can play his game, and bring some size and strength too. It doesn't mean you have to sacrifice skill and go for a plug, it means you fill a slot with a guy who brings that extra to the table.
Even prospects will still get drafted a little higher or a little lower based on size, or lack of. You still hear things like, "Lacks size", or "Has the size", etc. Those are just facts.
If you can add a guy in your D-core who can play (regular minutes, PK, muscle players, punish and wear down bodies, skate) why in the hell would you not want to?
Makes no sense to argue against that.
Anyways....
Would Josh Gorges not make sense from Buffalo?
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Marty Straka
HFBoards Senior Citizen
The issue is he's on a very small leash and for some reason our Coach is infatuated with Borowiecki because he's big and physical and is a hard worker even though he's nothing more than a 6/7 D but no matter how bad he may play he seems to always get into the lineup over Wiercioch. I have a feeling our management and coaching staff don't believe in underlying numbers. I personally like Wiercioch and wish he was given a fair shake to stick on the bottom pairing with Wideman now that Phaneuf solidified our Top4. The issue with Eakin is that is he able to play wing? Our biggest need is a LW but can always deal with a RW and shift Ryan to the LW like he played back in Anaheim at times.
A few years ago I would've welcomed Josh Gorges. Now? Not so much. Especially since he's not much of an upgrade over Oduya.
He also has a 3.9M caphit until 2018, which is sort of problematic. I'd prefer to target someone else or keep the youth infusion going.
He also has a 3.9M caphit until 2018, which is sort of problematic. I'd prefer to target someone else or keep the youth infusion going.
Hull Fan
The Future is Now
Eakin has played wing at times in Dallas. He's historically good at faceoffs but I think a lot of his defensive derps would be much better hidden on the wing. He's also a decent pk'er. He has an excellent shot and can skate so the bulk of his game should translate. He just hasn't played much there because we needed centers most of his time in Dallas.
Thanks for the support!
I got thinking again (always dangerous) and I am/was sort of ranting like an average fan about making the "perfect" team. You know, kind of being the guy I usually chide a bit when other folks do it.
I understand that in the Cap era, its not possible to put together the perfect team via UFA spending or what not. Every team has weaknesses. Ours happens to be D size, and other coaches do what they can to exploit it, a la, hit Klinger and Goligoski mercilessly. It's up to Ruff to counter with what he has. In general, they try to move the puck faster to avoid getting hit.
And, in reality, a new, bigger D only gets us one player, max 20 minutes a night with more size, at best, or improved size for about 5.5% of the total minutes played by the team (6.6% not counting goalies). Ruff still has a coaching challenge, and that player still has his strengths and weaknesses, which Ruff can use better in only half the games (at home), cutting that size advantage about in half again.
Goalie is another relative team weakness, but oddly enough, getting Kari was one of Niewy's best moves, a gamble that an injury prone out of shape, former second overall pick would over come those things, while giving up nothing to get him. That worked for 4-5 years, and may still work now in the platoon system. Ditto, Niemi. Nill only had 4-5 options and Nill came for next to nothing (low draft pick) and more money, which the Stars had to spend.
In both cases, you have to say they were the best options open to the Stars AT THE TIME, even if they aren't the best combo. Sure, all teams would like to draft a Roy and stick with him (wait, MTL didn't do that!) or Brodeur and ride his HOF career to a few Cups. But, those times are rare, as is picking up the next Bobby Orr, Chris Pronger, etc. Most teams do in fact, get by, and some win, without HOF goalies and Number 1 D, just a statistical fact.
Niewy didn't do great as a GM in player acquisition overall and we suffered (maybe not all his fault, but that's another debate). Nill seems to be one of the better talent evaluators around, and it should just be fun to see how he continues to build this team. It's great when fans can enjoy the TDL and off season just as much as the games themselves because of their GM.
One last thought, if he does trade Nuke, basically we are all worried it will turn into a "that's the team that traded Brett Hull too early" situation. Well, that happens, too. Sting is reduced if we do win the Cup with this basic group (a la getting Niewy for Ignila)
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Mr Misty
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Get a load of this, it might change your mind
http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/02/23...everybody-wants-but-nill-isnt-giving-them-up/
LT
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Mr Misty
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I sleep soundly because Nill is so successful at keeping those thirsty GMs away from our prospects.
LT
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masinaLFC
Registered User
This.. we suffered a lot during GMJN1 days to get a deep prospect pool, so it would not be very smart to trade them away easily
for a top 2 D? of course.. for a rentals? never...
OttMorrow
Registered User
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This.. we suffered a lot during GMJN1 days to get a deep prospect pool, so it would not be very smart to trade them away easily
It seemed that every year JN1 would bring in some old vets (Jagr, Whitney) because those prospects "weren't ready" and delayed making the big club. At least now, other young prospects are blocking younger prospects from making the big club.
At some point, you do have to let go of the names you know (and IMHO this includes bringing in a vet like Haimus) and go with the next generation. IF you figure building a Cup winning team is a 2-3 year process, maybe bringing up the younsters this year will eventually pay dividends over putting a vet D in, and have more of our future core players learning the ropes next year and in next year's playoffs.
Overall, it seems like going with the "yutes" accelerates our development, even if a vet might yield slightly better results this year, like one extra playoff round win where one of the wins was because of the difference experience makes.
It will be interesting to watch the next few days. The other side of the coin is we can trade some excess young D, if other teams will take some questionable prospects like JO and less so JJ. Maybe one experienced D on the ice is worth two in the press box?
The thing is, only so many of that deep pool of prospects can make the club, and if you draft well like Nill has done over the years, you have another couple coming on line each year. Especially with how quickly players get to free agency now, your timeline for development is limited.
If it's me, I'm not completely emptying the cupboard for an upgrade this time of year, but it makes sense to have a long-term plan and realize there's only so many players that can fit on a 23-man roster. Three or four offensive centres might be a luxury, but if you have Seguin and, say Dickenson, in your plan, maybe that makes Eakin and Shore expendable, for example. On the back end, there's clearly too many bodies in the mix.
Sure, you'd hate to see them in someone else's lineup, but if the move fits a need and gets you extra playoff revenue and the possibility of a better scouting budget, you can find the next one. Have confidence the good scouting that got you into a position of strength will not dry up.
If it's me, I'm not completely emptying the cupboard for an upgrade this time of year, but it makes sense to have a long-term plan and realize there's only so many players that can fit on a 23-man roster. Three or four offensive centres might be a luxury, but if you have Seguin and, say Dickenson, in your plan, maybe that makes Eakin and Shore expendable, for example. On the back end, there's clearly too many bodies in the mix.
Sure, you'd hate to see them in someone else's lineup, but if the move fits a need and gets you extra playoff revenue and the possibility of a better scouting budget, you can find the next one. Have confidence the good scouting that got you into a position of strength will not dry up.
Agreed in general, but also, despite our prospects being better than ever, statistically, due to skill level just under NHL level, injury, or other reason, not every prospect is going to have an impact. You may have a higher certainty that, say Honka will make the NHL than another D man, but you don't know for sure.
Thus, having numbers helps. And currently, even with three top prospects here on D, none has risen above part time third pair status, whereas Janmark was off the radar but made the team first, Faksa, thought to be pretty low ranked prospect after some injuries, made it ahead of Ritchie, (this year) etc.
Not to mention, the other teams know who has value (at least the smarter GM's, some seem to be out of whack) and they want the Honka's, not the Oleksiaks. Taking the top prospects out of the pool (which lacks elite prospects anyway) further reduces the chances of young players filling out your roster, allowing the bigger salaries to be paid to Benn, Seguin, etc., when due.
I will be surprised if Nil makes a deal, other than, as you say, trading surplus D, like JJ, JO and or Nemeth for whatever he can get. And then, only one, unless he gets one back, because you need D depth in the playoffs.
Thus, having numbers helps. And currently, even with three top prospects here on D, none has risen above part time third pair status, whereas Janmark was off the radar but made the team first, Faksa, thought to be pretty low ranked prospect after some injuries, made it ahead of Ritchie, (this year) etc.
Not to mention, the other teams know who has value (at least the smarter GM's, some seem to be out of whack) and they want the Honka's, not the Oleksiaks. Taking the top prospects out of the pool (which lacks elite prospects anyway) further reduces the chances of young players filling out your roster, allowing the bigger salaries to be paid to Benn, Seguin, etc., when due.
I will be surprised if Nil makes a deal, other than, as you say, trading surplus D, like JJ, JO and or Nemeth for whatever he can get. And then, only one, unless he gets one back, because you need D depth in the playoffs.
Rangers fan here. I've read a lot of rumors that stars and rangers have been scouting each other a lot and discussing trades for a little over a month - namely for Yandle.
Interested in seeing what you guys think it would take to get him considering he is a) a rental, which will devalue the return the Rangers get and b) a big time sellers market, which will inflate the value it'll take to get him.
Additionally, I don't watch the stars that often but have always liked Valeri Nichushkin. Any insight as to why he has struggled this year? Lingering hip issue? Just not fitting the system? Growing pains? I know he has been on the 1st line a few times and wondering why he hasn't taken the opportunity and flown with it.
Thanks guys.
Interested in seeing what you guys think it would take to get him considering he is a) a rental, which will devalue the return the Rangers get and b) a big time sellers market, which will inflate the value it'll take to get him.
Additionally, I don't watch the stars that often but have always liked Valeri Nichushkin. Any insight as to why he has struggled this year? Lingering hip issue? Just not fitting the system? Growing pains? I know he has been on the 1st line a few times and wondering why he hasn't taken the opportunity and flown with it.
Thanks guys.
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