Improving the Stars 101
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LT
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- Jul 23, 2010
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With Parayko playing as well as he has been, if that continues, Shattenkirk might be on the block. I've gotta wonder if we could put together a package St. Louis would be interested in, but I'm not sure we can.
They'd probably want a top 6 center, a bottom pairing RHD, and a pick. That or just a top line center. Seguin and Spezza aren't moving, and I'm not sure Eakin fits the bill. I'd like to keep Demers, and I'm not sure Oleksiak/Jokipakka are what they'd be interested in. Nill doesn't like to move picks either.
In a perfect world? Eakin + Dickinson + Jokipakka + 1st gets us Shattenkirk. But that trade isn't anywhere near realistic. I'm struggling to find something that would work for both teams. The thought of Shattenkirk/Klingberg/Demers down the right side on defense is drool-inducing, though.
They'd probably want a top 6 center, a bottom pairing RHD, and a pick. That or just a top line center. Seguin and Spezza aren't moving, and I'm not sure Eakin fits the bill. I'd like to keep Demers, and I'm not sure Oleksiak/Jokipakka are what they'd be interested in. Nill doesn't like to move picks either.
In a perfect world? Eakin + Dickinson + Jokipakka + 1st gets us Shattenkirk. But that trade isn't anywhere near realistic. I'm struggling to find something that would work for both teams. The thought of Shattenkirk/Klingberg/Demers down the right side on defense is drool-inducing, though.
Ghost of Kyiv
Wanted Dead and Alive
Oh boy. Looks like it's time for me to start thinking up some half-baked trade ideas, all with the requisite evil hand-wringing and maniacal laughter. I'll be back.
Magic Mittens
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Would love to pick up a Dman like Coburn, who is the question though haha. Also if we're in the playoff picture I would mind a veteran 3rd line forward
Is St Louis gonna wanna trade within the division? And after watching Nill fleece Boston, Ottawa, Chicago and Detroit, I'd be VERY WARY of dealing with him. The guy's a freaking Jedi when it comes to trading:
Nill: You will take this package of scrubs for your star player
Other GM: I'll take that package Jim
Nill: And you'll include one of your top prospects
Other GM: Hey, how about I include this top prospect of mine?
Nill: You'll think it's a fair deal
Other GM: that's a fair deal
Nill: Move along now
Other GM: I'll be moving along now
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tjcurrie
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beepeearr
@beepeearr
That would have to be a seriously legit Defenseman, I think we would have seriously regretted trading Val for Myers as was rumored last year.
tjcurrie
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beepeearr
@beepeearr
mc3488
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tjcurrie
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OttMorrow
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- Sep 18, 2003
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Val's stock is gonna be taking a hit soon if he doesn't get it together. It may have already taken a hit. His expectations were so high, and he's not looking like the potential All-Star we were hoping for. Injuries, youth, no Russians to play with, blah blah blah. He hasn't even had success in the AHL stints he's had. All it's going to take is for Dickinson (same draft year) to get an NHL stint and look better than Val, for him to REALLY be on the hot seat. Still young, and has time to right the boat, but with guys like Janmark, Faksa, Dickinson, Ritchie, and Shore nipping at his heels, he could put himself in an "Oleksiak situation" before too long.
tjcurrie
Registered User
I wanna be careful here and not tread to hard on Val. He's had a rough go. A season away sets a guy back, no doubt.
I don't want to "give up" on the guy, not really what this is about, but if you can get a guy like Myers (obviously that one specifically is off the table now) who will improve your back end like that then you have to do it.
All the other young forwards we have though who are doing so well so far, well just in general I'd take a guy with half the natural talent and twice the gumption over a guy with twice the natural talent and half the gumption any day.
LT
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Janmark's already doing this. One of the two (Janmark, Dickinson) will likely have to play wing, and could challenge for Nuke's spot.
Val's one of my favorite players. I have his jersey, and I'm going to be pissed if he's traded, but getting a defender who will better the team for him could go a long way towards us getting back to being contenders. Its still too early to seriously consider any deals, though. If I had to guess, we'll start hearing some more rumors around the 20-30 game mark. I'm not sure what Nill's got up his sleeve, but I do get a sense that he'll clear out the log jam on defense while simultaneously improving it. Quantity of youth for quality now, type of thing. Someone will get hit with an injury bug, maybe.
I still think Edler would be an ideal target.
OttMorrow
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I agree that Janmark is already putting Val in a tough spot. Janmark is several years older than Val though, which takes a little pressure off of Nuke. If someone his age or younger, like Dickinson or Shore for instance, makes the jump to the big club and looks more the part than Val, then Val is in even more expendable here in Dallas. Shore has already accomplished more than Val has at the AHL-level. Just a matter of time before he gets a chance with the big club if he keeps producing down there.
I think Val is putting Val in a tough spot. He looks a bit lost and disinterested out there.
Beginning to wonder if the rush to the NHL isn't stunting his development, as well as his attitude about entitlement because of their allowing him to dictate NHL terms are both hurting him, as we once wondered aloud. As mentioned, he never looked great in Austin, maybe because he didn't think he had to be?
Of course, he could just be a slow starter like his rookie year, and pick it up, but there are only flashes of talent, some floating around, and no results so far this year.
I agree his value is dropping. And, I would have made that trade for Myers last year, next to Hamilton, he would have been the perfect fit. (unless Lindy didn't like him) Seeing JJ and JoBenn making two big positioning mistakes already this year, I think Oduya is not enough to improve the D. We still, IMHO, need that stud D to improve the back end, and we have missed on the two that have become available, and benched the guy I think has the best shot at developing internally. (Nemeth)
Short version, Shatty would be pretty huge, but probably the third best option we will whiff on, due to no trades in the division informal rule.
Beginning to wonder if the rush to the NHL isn't stunting his development, as well as his attitude about entitlement because of their allowing him to dictate NHL terms are both hurting him, as we once wondered aloud. As mentioned, he never looked great in Austin, maybe because he didn't think he had to be?
Of course, he could just be a slow starter like his rookie year, and pick it up, but there are only flashes of talent, some floating around, and no results so far this year.
I agree his value is dropping. And, I would have made that trade for Myers last year, next to Hamilton, he would have been the perfect fit. (unless Lindy didn't like him) Seeing JJ and JoBenn making two big positioning mistakes already this year, I think Oduya is not enough to improve the D. We still, IMHO, need that stud D to improve the back end, and we have missed on the two that have become available, and benched the guy I think has the best shot at developing internally. (Nemeth)
Short version, Shatty would be pretty huge, but probably the third best option we will whiff on, due to no trades in the division informal rule.
LT
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Larsson would be a tremendous addition, which is exactly why he won't be moved.
We need higher caliber players than Merrill and Severson, especially if we're moving Val. They're good, but not good enough for what we need.
Andy Greene is more of a likely target from New Jersey. An older vet, but still a great player. Very underrated, too. Probably wouldn't be terribly expensive.
OttMorrow
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I think the special treatment hasn't helped his development at all. His one-way contract has our hands tied.
Hopefully we learn from this when it comes to the management of Gurianov, but these Russians can kind of call the shots if they have a KHL contract to hold over us in return for a one-way deal in the NHL. Nill loves his Russians, but if neither pans out, he's going to look foolish for passing on guys like Barzal. I hated the pick initially, it grew on me a little over the summer, but now I'm getting nervous at Gurianov's 2 pts through 14 games in the KHL so far. Hopefully we don't have more Val-like Russian draftee headaches to come.
Arkham32
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- Nov 9, 2012
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I agree LArsson is the only player I would move Val for in a trade with the devils but other than larsson I can't think of another defenseman with top pairing potential that is possibly available.
Andy Greene is already 32 which is the only reason I wouldn't trade for him.
Looking at the capitals cap situation they have 3 RFA's this summer in Orlov, Johannson, and Wilson and only 400k in cap space. Alzner would be a solid pickup to no clue what the asking price for him would be from the caps though.
OttMorrow
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I don't think Val nets this kind of return until he begins to produce consistently, BUT if he begins to produce consistently, I doubt we move him because of his upside. If Val turns it on, we likely move one of our other young forwards instead...which could be a mistake LONG TERM. Val either works here in Dallas and turns into a stud, or he's essentially a bust and we get an unimpressive return for him IMO.
Ghost of Kyiv
Wanted Dead and Alive
I just hate the idea of trading Val because he is a guy who's skill-set transcends far beyond just goals and assists. I mean when he gets going, no one can get the puck off his stick and he is nearly unstoppable when it comes to zone entries when he has built up speed. I have long believed that controlling the puck is the key to winning hockey games. That's because it is the only way that I know of that simultaneously allows your team to both score goals and prevent the other team from scoring. In addition to that, in his rookie year, Val had the 12th best penalty differential in the entire league. No one really ever factors that into their decision making, but it easily accounts for an extra 3-4 goals per year that will only really show up on his team-mates box score.
I've never really viewed Val as a likely ppg guy, he's never demonstrated the vision to get more then 30-35 helpers or the shot to get more then 25 goals, but he has demonstrated the above mentioned skill-set and he was an at least league average as an 18 year old. Most players don't peak at 18, most get a lot better; maybe Val is the exception, but a couple games isn't enough to convince me of that.
I've never really viewed Val as a likely ppg guy, he's never demonstrated the vision to get more then 30-35 helpers or the shot to get more then 25 goals, but he has demonstrated the above mentioned skill-set and he was an at least league average as an 18 year old. Most players don't peak at 18, most get a lot better; maybe Val is the exception, but a couple games isn't enough to convince me of that.
