Proposal: Immature losses under Woodcroft mounting.

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

There aren’t very many systems in which to coach a hockey team.

I believe coaches revert to what we are back to running here is in large part because we have a weak D and largely weak F in the bottom 6 and irresponsible set of forwards in the top 6.

So a coach wants to minimize these turnovers and play to the offensive strengths by always going to back to this system.

However it’s clear our team isn’t built to play this way as we are too weak on retrievals and careless in defensive reads and make too many costly turnovers and unforced errors.

And who’s responsible for the weak D and lack of depth…

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I’ve made it clear before I respect your input on how systems are run and how they operate. I just refuse to believe we have the fourth or fifth coach in a row who on his own decided to undo everything he was doing to go back to what was going on prior to him arriving. I don’t have an answer beyond some conspiracy theories. But I just don’t believe every coach we hire doesn’t understand the game of hockey. It doesn’t add up at all.

They understand the game, for sure, and sorry to be repetitive from my post above but I believe coaches revert to what we are back to running here is in large part because we have always have a weak D and largely weak F in the bottom 6 and irresponsible set of forwards in the top 6.

So a coach wants to minimize these turnovers and play to the offensive strengths by always going to back to this system.

 

[Soundwave]

This team honestly would need Torts. I know people got their panties in a bunch over it, but I think that would have been the right hire even if the players would hate him over time, whatever.

This is not a feel good country club.

THIS group (maybe not every group, but THIS group) needs a psychotic coach who will not ever bend on their system. Someone who will leave the arena looking like their corn flakes got pissed in even on night's they win if they win playing shitty hockey. Who will work their asses hard in practise no matter what. Who will rip defensive mistakes a new one and call them out and even embarrass people for them if that's what needs to be done.

This group has too many quiet, laid back personalities. You can't have that AND have a coach that is Mr. Rogers all the time and/or will bail on their system and bail on hard practises because "well we won last night, and I played Connor and Leon 25 minutes, so lets just take it easy today".

Yes maybe they'd mutiny of Torts in a couple of years, but between now and then, they would learn how to adhere to a system, no ifs, ands, or buts. Hitchcock could've been this if he wasn't in his "I'm retired and into my cuddly grandpa phase" thing.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

And who’s responsible for the weak D and lack of depth…

You don’t get any argument from me on that but it amplifies why you need a detail coach who has transformed some of the biggest stars in the game on a team built very similar to the Oilers (top heavy, weak D) to win.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You don’t get any argument from me on that but it amplifies why you need a detail coach who has transformed some of the biggest stars in the game on a team built very similar to the Oilers (top heavy, weak D) to win.

I know you’re talking about the Caps but the Isles are completely unlike us.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I know you’re talking about the Caps but the Isles are completely unlike us.

He transformed the Islanders to a very good defensive team notwithstanding last year (15-20 game road trip to start the season and decimated by Covid but forced by the league to play games short handed with an AHL roster till the league changed their policy)

 

[Drivesaitl]

This team honestly would need Torts. I know people got their panties in a bunch over it, but I think that would have been the right hire even if the players would hate him over time, whatever.

This is not a feel good country club.

THIS group (maybe not every group, but THIS group) needs a psychotic coach who will not ever bend on their system. Someone who will leave the arena looking like their corn flakes got pissed in even on night's they win if they win playing shitty hockey. Who will work their asses hard in practise no matter what. Who will rip defensive mistakes a new one and call them out and even embarrass people for them if that's what needs to be done.

This group has too many quiet, laid back personalities. You can't have that AND have a coach that is Mr. Rogers all the time and/or will bail on their system and bail on hard practises because "well we won last night, and I played Connor and Leon 25 minutes, so lets just take it easy today".

Yes maybe they'd mutiny of Torts in a couple of years, but between now and then, they would learn how to adhere to a system, no ifs, ands, or buts. Hitchcock could've been this if he wasn't in his "I'm retired and into my cuddly grandpa phase" thing.

The difference in Torts or Trots is coaches with enough fire and balls to stand up to superstars. In prime Hitchcock might have been the guy too. People underestimate how difficult it is to coach superstars and not just in this sport, you see it in all sports. It becomes an interplay of having to have the superstar on board or risk losing a job. Or being a strong enough person that you can be relentless confronting even a superstar while retaining your own job.

The team and core need confrontation and even some provocation. As I've said it doesn't matter what happens in two years. We need a bonafide coaching personality that can confront shortcuts and star players not being on board NOW.

 

[Beerfish]

meh. I mentioned at the time of the playoffs and all season that the Flames were a nothing opponent that would be an easy playoff foil. They were a team ready to take a dive and moreso because Gaudreau who is always subpar in playoffs was leaving and because Tkachuk was too. The Flames played out the series as if leaving was fait accompli. In otherwords they had no reason left to really give it much. It was a perfect opponent for the Oilers.

Needs to be remembered that the Oilers were not well prepared for the LA series and did not play well in that series. A Kings team without Doughty and Arviddson extended us to the limit. A rebuilding Kings team full of inexperienced players. Kanes 7 goals is the primary reason we even got the series to game 7.

Third round against Colorado, the first solid opponent we saw showed how few answers we had. Again the team was 8-8 in the playoffs and the divisional opponents should not have been that much trouble.

We were in danger of missing he playoffs when the change was made and the team took off when woodcroft took over. I am not disputing a meh comment on woodcroft, but Holland after a bit of success was forced to abandon any pans he had to bring in 'his on guy'

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

He transformed the Islanders to a very good defensive team notwithstanding last year (15-20 game road trip to start the season and decimated by Covid but forced by the league to play games short handed with an AHL roster till the league changed their policy)

Yes but again we are nothing like them.

 

[Drivesaitl]

We were in danger of missing he playoffs when the change was made and the team took off when woodcroft took over. I am not disputing a meh comment on woodcroft, but Holland after a bit of success was forced to abandon any pans he had to bring in 'his on guy'

I simply disagree with the bolded because of what I cited re the playoffs. The team had 1 good playoff series and two that weren't good.

i don't think Holland was forced and I think he ought to have scratched beyond what maybe superficial exit comments of team and players were.

Now if one is saying that the record they had in regular season was too good not to continue I can see that being said. But I think that was attributable to Kane and McDrai going on legend goal scoring sprees.

 

[Leonardlizard]

Do you guys think that Mcdavid like truly wants the Stanley Cup? Does Drai? I know it gets interesting with Euro players compared to anyone growing up in NA.

Not that it's Mcdavid's responsibility to get it done alone but last year around this time it was obvious that Nathan over on the Avalanche wanted his name on the cup and that they were going for it with f***ing gusto.

There is that article that speaks of him being kind of a dick and even ridding the locker room of processed foods during the season.


I like that Connor isn't a dick to the team as far as we know but he's literally the best player ...in the world...and I feel like if he really really wanted a Stanley Cup he would need to make some noise for changes to be made. He could probably get whatever he wants...

 

[Leonardlizard]

As a fan I feel like the team "going for the cup" is lip service and not a concept the team buys into

 

[Stoneman89]

There will be no coaching change until Clone starts his "Fire Woody" thread, and then keeps piling on his former golden boy relentlessly until the organization capitulates.

But first, we turf Nicholson.

First, we take Manhattan. Then, we turf Nicholson. It has been written.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Yes but again we are nothing like them.

We are uncannily similar to the Caps. But it really doesn’t matter. You don’t hire a coach to fit player personnel. Trotz is a proven hard structure coach who gets his stars to play within a defined system, doesn’t matter the team. That’s what we need.

There will be no coaching change until Clone starts his "Fire Woody" thread, and then keeps piling on his former steel boy relentlessly until the organization capitulates.


First, we take Manhattan. Then, we turf Nicholson. It has been written.

Fixed.

And unless I mistaken this is the official Fire Woody thread unless @Cloned really wants to kick things into high gear.

 

[Stoneman89]

We are uncannily similar to the Caps. But it really doesn’t matter. You don’t hire a coach to fit player personnel. Trotz is a proven hard structure coach who gets his stars to play within a defined system, doesn’t matter the team. That’s what we need.



Fixed.

And unless I mistaken this is the official Fire Woody thread unless @Cloned really wants to kick things into high gear.

He's been eerily silent lately.

 

[GOilers88]

This team honestly would need Torts. I know people got their panties in a bunch over it, but I think that would have been the right hire even if the players would hate him over time, whatever.

This is not a feel good country club.

THIS group (maybe not every group, but THIS group) needs a psychotic coach who will not ever bend on their system. Someone who will leave the arena looking like their corn flakes got pissed in even on night's they win if they win playing shitty hockey. Who will work their asses hard in practise no matter what. Who will rip defensive mistakes a new one and call them out and even embarrass people for them if that's what needs to be done.

This group has too many quiet, laid back personalities. You can't have that AND have a coach that is Mr. Rogers all the time and/or will bail on their system and bail on hard practises because "well we won last night, and I played Connor and Leon 25 minutes, so lets just take it easy today".

Yes maybe they'd mutiny of Torts in a couple of years, but between now and then, they would learn how to adhere to a system, no ifs, ands, or buts. Hitchcock could've been this if he wasn't in his "I'm retired and into my cuddly grandpa phase" thing.

You've been beating this drum for a while now, and I don't understand how you think having some psycho (your own words) screaming and yelling and throwing chairs is going to somehow make everyone see the light of day and turn everything around. The Flyers have already come back down to earth and I doubt Torts being Torts is going to change anything given their roster. If you think we have a shallow roster (and I know you do because you've talked about it many times) then how is it going to be any different? Do you think Barry Trotz has to act like a psycho to get players to buy in? Is that how Lindy Ruff has gotten New Jersey to buy in? How about Montgomery in Boston?

I think you put far too much weight into being a total f***ing asshole being the key to players buying in.

 

[GOilers88]

They understand the game, for sure, and sorry to be repetitive from my post above but I believe coaches revert to what we are back to running here is in large part because we have always have a weak D and largely weak F in the bottom 6 and irresponsible set of forwards in the top 6.

So a coach wants to minimize these turnovers and play to the offensive strengths by always going to back to this system.

I appreciate the responses from yourself and @Drivesaitl , I just have a hard time seeing another coach come in, even if it is Barry Trotz, and make everyone see the light this time, for the reasons you detailed before, that our roster is seriously lacking to the point that every coach reverts back to doing the exact same thing.

How does that change with Trotz?

Also to be clear, I'm not against Barry Trotz at all. I'd love to see him brought in. I just don't see any chance of it happening mid season.

 

[McTonyBrar]

Oh God enough of the Fire the Coach BS. This is the same crap said every single year. Newsflash guys : Firing the coach is not the solution!!!

When has it worked for us? We fire a coach, love the new coach. Then, when the roster is the issue, we blame the coach again and again and again and again and again.

 

[brentashton]

Do you guys think that Mcdavid like truly wants the Stanley Cup? Does Drai? I know it gets interesting with Euro players compared to anyone growing up in NA.

Not that it's Mcdavid's responsibility to get it done alone but last year around this time it was obvious that Nathan over on the Avalanche wanted his name on the cup and that they were going for it with f***ing gusto.

There is that article that speaks of him being kind of a dick and even ridding the locker room of processed foods during the season.


I like that Connor isn't a dick to the team as far as we know but he's literally the best player ...in the world...and I feel like if he really really wanted a Stanley Cup he would need to make some noise for changes to be made. He could probably get whatever he wants...

ESPN panel was talking here before tonite games about MacKinnons injury and “Barry Melrose called it the loss of the best player in the world”.

At first I was like , WTF did you just say, how out of touch could you be? Then I thought, here is the voice of the NHL in the biggest TV a market in the world and they are ignoring just who is the flat out best player on the planet.

The league doesn’t want Connor in Edmonton any longer than he will be, to the end of his current contract. Shortsighted, because these are his prime years.

 

[brentashton]

He's been eerily silent lately.

I think Poile becomes governor emeritus in Nashville and Trotz is his replacement. It seems he’s not signing anywhere because he has a plan.

 

[Beerfish]

I simply disagree with the bolded because of what I cited re the playoffs. The team had 1 good playoff series and two that weren't good.

i don't think Holland was forced and I think he ought to have scratched beyond what maybe superficial exit comments of team and players were.

Now if one is saying that the record they had in regular season was too good not to continue I can see that being said. But I think that was attributable to Kane and McDrai going on legend goal scoring sprees.

This is ken holland and most oiler fans we are talking about here not you or me, the oilers got scrubbed by the avs and barely beat the kings but thrashed the flames and getting to the avs is seen as a great success considering we were floundering when the change was made. If Holland canned Woodcroft and brought in someone else and the oilers struggled as they are now he's look really really bad and he knew it.

Like I said this is Holland we are talking about not a good gm.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I appreciate the responses from yourself and @Drivesaitl , I just have a hard time seeing another coach come in, even if it is Barry Trotz, and make everyone see the light this time, for the reasons you detailed before, that our roster is seriously lacking to the point that every coach reverts back to doing the exact same thing.

How does that change with Trotz?

Also to be clear, I'm not against Barry Trotz at all. I'd love to see him brought in. I just don't see any chance of it happening mid season.

I don’t see it happening either. Not even a snowballs chance.

I do however think we hitched our wagon to a guy who is feeling his way around the league from a coaching perspective right when we are in a window of opportunity.

As for personnel once we get healthy we have an incredible top 5, insert Janmark and Kostin for Ryan and Shore, better deployment of Holloway and we have a much improved bottom 6.

Add proper structure under a proven hard structure coach like Trotz and I think it works.

He's been eerily silent lately.

He’s making me be the fall guy this time lol

 

[Drivesaitl]

He's been eerily silent lately.

He was wrong about Woody AND about the Canadian MNT. So kind of falling silent lately. heh

 

[Drivesaitl]

So I've mentioned that much of Drais worst segment of 200ft play, system adherence, and general punk play is happening under Woody. This impacts the team. Over the last year Drai has nutsacked several players, slewfooted others and is taking on a general villain role. This occurring under the Woody watch and basically non existent feedback and confronting. how does this impact? We see microcosms of it.

Last time we played the Caps Draisaitl made Protas his latest "nutsack" victim on a viciously dirty play, and one that Drai has been up for review and fined before. So that Protas last night made 3 different plays and was playing possessed in his best game of the season in an effort to beat the Oil. Protas MADE the winning goal on a brilliant, even spectacular play. Drai provided ample motivation and one can understand that every Capital including OV knew about the nutsack and were pounding the Oilers silly last night at least partly in response to it. its how you get opponents to HATE you. Its dumb all day for Drai or anybody else to do this and Woody has to crack down on the shit occurring.

This behavior occurs in the absence of responsible coaching influence. Unless a club is attempting to be the broad street bullies and if Drai was actually a boss player. Protas would cave Drai in a fight. Neither Drai, or this team are tough and it certainly isn't something they should be doing egging other teams on. It isn't a mirage. Teams have learned to hate the Oilers and bring the bang against them. To wit Drai is playing injured through some of his own shit. First targeting Zegras with a wipe out big hit on the boards last year and missing. (Drai instead injures himself) and being slewfooted in the playoffs. Again the karma of the things you do being noted and coming back on you. Drai is bringing this shit to himself and the team. But wise coaches would be speaking with him about it and demanding it stop.

 

[Cloned]

He's been eerily silent lately.

I’ve been posting in most threads including this one? lol.