If you could pick 2 of Lemieux,Crosby,Malkin,or Jagr to start 16/17

[TNT87]

Mario and Sid.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno. I understand the thought process of centers being more important. I'm a really, really huge Crosby (and Malkin) fan and think they are both better characters and team leaders than Jagr and honestly even Mario in some ways.

But I still feel like any answer that isn't Mario/Jagr is betraying a bit of of an axe to grind or simply never watching enough Jagr. The guy was pretty easily the second best player to lace 'em up for this franchise. And dominated in a way that Crosby and Malkin can not.

Though I do think the question of Jagr's legacy versus Crosby's (still ongoing) legacy on this team is an interesting one. And that gap has narrowed significantly throughout the years.

Malkin is the clear loser, here. Perhaps if he could stay healthy for a season every now and then things would have been much different. Out of he and Crosby... Malkin is the guy that is capable of taking over games the way I used to see Mario and Jagr do it. The problem, of course, is that he's a skating infirmary.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I dunno. I understand the thought process of centers being more important. I'm a really, really huge Crosby (and Malkin) fan and think they are both better characters and team leaders than Jagr and honestly even Mario in some ways.

But I still feel like any answer that isn't Mario/Jagr is betraying a bit of of an axe to grind or simply never watching enough Jagr. The guy was pretty easily the second best player to lace 'em up for this franchise. And dominated in a way that Crosby and Malkin can not.

Though I do think the question of Jagr's legacy versus Crosby's (still ongoing) legacy on this team is an interesting one. And that gap has narrowed significantly throughout the years.

Malkin is the clear loser, here. Perhaps if he could stay healthy for a season every now and then things would have been much different. Out of he and Crosby... Malkin is the guy that is capable of taking over games the way I used to see Mario and Jagr do it. The problem, of course, is that he's a skating infirmary.

I see it as two different questions -- which of the 4 would bring us the best shot at a Cup vs. who are the two greatest players out of the group. Jagr is THE dominant RW of the last 25 years. That's not contested. But I still think there's a good argument that Jagr even at his prime was not able to be a leader on and off the ice the way Sid does and THAT is my argument for taking Sid.

Both Sid and Jags can sometimes turn it on and take over a game, Jags more than anyone else, but with Sid, you get the complete package when he's not putting up gaudy point totals. Jarda, not so much.

Incidentally, I was rewatching One from the Heart and Against the Odds in a fit of nostalgia, and I forgot how much those teams were carried by a group of players winning by committee, just like our Pens now.

 

[mpp9]

I also wonder how we'd look at 87 and 71's ability to "take over games" if they had the stacked top 6s of the mid-late 90s Pens teams to work with. Like HSL said, our Cup years were all won by committee.

What if Hossa sticks around? What's Sid put up during his best years if healthy? My money's on a couple 120-130 pt seasons while the next best guy is struggling to break 100. The type of domination Jagr had on guys like Forsberg and Selanne back then.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Mario and Sid.

Crosby and lemieux combined for

8 art ross
7 pearsons
5 harts
4 Richards
3 Smythes

Them rather easily

 

[Ugene Magic]

Let me know when Crosby leads the league in points 5 times and has 149 points in a season.

Crosby came into the league as a generational talent. Jagr.....NOT SO MUCH.

Without injuries going back to 2000/01 Crosby is a 100+ point player every year for over a decade in a much more skilled and growing talent league.

Crosby without injury probably already has 5 of those himself. That was without a Lemieux, Francis, Recchi, Stevens, Tocchet and more for the first 7 years of his career.

Jagr wasn't a trend setter, he was a trend follower. It took Mario to come out of retirement to salvage his Art Ross in 2000/01 where he could have easily lost considering they were neck and neck (He and Sakic) where it looked like Sakic was going to take it while Jagr was starting to plunge and looked miserable.

No Mario, no Art Ross.


As a captain he did't bring the team anywhere close to what Sid has.


I'm sorry, but you overlook what Jagr had to work with for most of his tenure here.

I put him a clear notch below who I'd consider generational.

It's a watered down theme anymore.