If McDavid does not win a Cup, but ends up with better regular seasons, would you consider him better than Sid?

[Tad Mikowsky]

okay one question ... what would "Connor" say is important?

Of course he would say winning cup is important.

But you never answered my question.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Players are mostly and possibly unfairly judged on cups. I think he would be a case where a great didn't win it but Sid was/is a great with multiple cups and was a big factor in them. I think overall it's hard to get upset at a great player for not winning a cup because it is a team game but you are comparing two greats here. You have to side with sid.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

big no. Connor has never led any of his teams to a championship. in the juniors or the nhl. n that will be remembered especially against a champion like Crosby. every single team Crosby has ever been on wins. midget, high school, chl nhl

 

[tacogeoff]

big no. Connor has never led any of his teams to a championship.

Crosby did do well in the playoffs but it could be said that Malkin lead them to the cup in 09 and in 16/17 wins Kessel and Malkin provided a huge basis for the cup wins. Its kind of weird just saying crosby alone led them to a cups when he wasn't even the top producer for the team and it was a combination of players that led to their victories.

 

[psycat]

Crosby did do well in the playoffs but it could be said that Malkin lead them to the cup in 09 and in 16/17 wins Kessel and Malkin provided a huge basis for the cup wins. Its kind of weird just saying crosby alone led them to a cups when he wasn't even the top producer for the team and it was a combination of players that led to their victories.

Sure but Draisaitl has almost matched McDavid in playoffs, even last year when McDavid had a truly great run Draisaitl was right there with him(and Kane, as much as I dislike him, had a Kesselesque performance) so it's not like he is as alone as people make him out to be. He had kinda poor goalkeeping and depth scoring though.

 

[Scrantonicity 2]

McDavid will need at least three cups to have a realistic argument at surpassing Crosby because he's not a better individual player, nor will he ever be.

 

[Master P]

Is Crosby really being underrated here?

The biggest difference between them is their speed. McDavid creates so much just from his speed. I think Crosby is the better technical skater.

I think I'd rather have Sidney Crosby in his prime over McDavid. But you can't go wrong with either.

I also think Crosby is much better at battling for the puck.

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

Without a cup, fair or not, McDavid is the current version of Marcel Dionne, with a touch of Pavel Bure thrown in.

This is so far off, just a terrible take. Dionne never had the individual awards that McDavid has. Dionne was never dominant like McDavid is. McDavid is a true generational player. Dionne was just a good player.

This is another thread where many here defending McDavid have probably never played competitive sports.

Cups matter more then anything. Ask a player if the Stanley Cup doesn’t matter.

It’s like playing bot lobbies in call of duty compared to playing for 100k against the best in the world and coming out on top.

Sid has three Cups. Until McDavid touches that he’s always in Sids rear view.

Until Sid wins 6 Cups, he's always in Kevin Lowe's rear view.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

big no. Connor has never led any of his teams to a championship. in the juniors or the nhl. n that will be remembered especially against a champion like Crosby. every single team Crosby has ever been on wins. midget, high school, chl nhl

Thank f*** were listing midget and high school achievements to prop up Crosby. Even then, you can’t get this right; McDavid won multiple times in his youth.

As usual, you’re scraping the barrel for crappy arguments, Dick Beddoes.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yes, something to be said about the team you play for, not about the player.

If McDavid wins, say, 7 Rosses, 4-5 Harts and 4-5 Lindsays there is no way you can put Crosby above him, cups or no.

This whole narrative about leadership is just bullshit and if you choose to believe it you're just stupid, unless you've actually been on the locker room and seen it yourself. Nobody of us have been so saying Crosby is somehow a better leader than McDavid because he has 3 more cups playing for much better teams is just... Stupid. You don't have any evidence to support it. Winning a cup with a much more stacked team is not evidence of being a better leader.

If you replace Crosby with McDavid in those cup-winning teams he played for McD is 100% winning those cups as well.

I don't agree. They don't win in 09 with McDavid replacing Crosby, Crosby had one of the best series of all time against Washington and they only won in 7. And it's hard to say if they win under Sullivan, I don't see any evidence that McDavid would buy into the system.

Thank f*** were listing midget and high school achievements to prop up Crosby. Even then, you can’t get this right; McDavid won multiple times in his youth.

As usual, you’re scraping the barrel for crappy arguments, Dick Beddoes.

Honest question, when did McDavid win a championship before reaching the NHL?

Sure but Draisaitl has almost matched McDavid in playoffs, even last year when McDavid had a truly great run Draisaitl was right there with him(and Kane, as much as I dislike him, had a Kesselesque performance) so it's not like he is as alone as people make him out to be. He had kinda poor goalkeeping and depth scoring though.

Not last playoffs.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Until Sid wins 6 Cups, he's always in Kevin Lowe's rear view.

Stupid trope.

Sid and McDavid were first overall “generational “ talents expected to change franchises. Sid accomplished what was expected and it’s unknown if McDavid ever hits that pinnacle.

The fact that the stupid “bro some fourth liner has x amount of cups he’s better” trope is still used in bitterness when cups are valued higher then regular season awards is staggeringly hilarious.

If Cups didn’t matter, why have a playoffs? Why not just have a regular season and that’s it?

Or is this another assumed “players do want regular season awards but they just keep that to themselves “ type of arguement?

 

[Honest M]

Crosby easy pick, a winner that works hard as hell extremely good balance strength and vision.

I see alot of Forsberg in Crosby, with a little bit less anger, and a better shot.

 

[CN8]

Stupid trope.

Sid and McDavid were first overall “generational “ talents expected to change franchises. Sid accomplished what was expected and it’s unknown if McDavid ever hits that pinnacle.

The fact that the stupid “bro some fourth liner has x amount of cups he’s better” trope is still used in bitterness when cups are valued higher then regular season awards is staggeringly hilarious.

If Cups didn’t matter, why have a playoffs? Why not just have a regular season and that’s it?

Or is this another assumed “players do want regular season awards but they just keep that to themselves “ type of arguement?

Maybe a more realistic argument though, would you say Messier better than Gretzky? Fact is Messier was a winner without Gretzky but Gretzky failed to get it done without Messier

 

[CN8]

Maybe a more realistic argument though, would you say Messier better than Gretzky? Fact is Messier was a winner without Gretzky but Gretzky failed to get it done without Messier

And for the record I did vote no

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

McDavid could very well be the superior individual talent/player.

But I kinda feel like Sid’s pure talent level and ability is getting glossed over by comparison here… dude was a high-octane, dynamic offensive player that absolutely took games over in his prime. He did it in a different style than McDavid but he was dominant shift-to-shift offensively in the same way.

I think it’s a push. They are very comparable in terms “who would you rather have in a game 7” to me.

If you value stats and availability you will prefer McDavid. If you value Cups and winning, Sid.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Maybe a more realistic argument though, would you say Messier better than Gretzky? Fact is Messier was a winner without Gretzky but Gretzky failed to get it done without Messier

I’m 100% not getting into that debate when there’s too much triggered butthurt when you point out Cups matter more then regular season stats and there’s assumptions that players would rather win individual awards then Stanley cups but don’t say anything out of fear.

Messier was a better winner then Gretzky, there’s no doubt about that.

 

[tacogeoff]

Honest question, when did McDavid win a championship before reaching the NHL?

2016 IIHF World Championship * I guess it was his rookie year. my bad.
2015 IIHF World U20 Championship
2013 IIHF U18 World Championship

 

[Soundwave]

A great player has to win Cups/championships, it's just the burden every great player has put on them. It's in every sport too, why do you think Michael Jordan broke down in tears after winning the Bulls first title, because all he heard for years to that point was Magic/Bird are better than you because you can't win a championship.

That said, almost none of these guys (Crosby, Gretzky, Malkin) have ever won anything without a lot of run support if not full blown loaded teams around them.

Even in 08-09, Letang was already by the playoffs turning into an All-Star caliber D, Gonchar was still a big point producer, and while MAF had a bad series against Washington in the Finals against Detroit in all 4 Penguins wins, he was absolutely dominant (save percentage of .931, .949, .962, .958 in the 4 Pens wins, the last two games being game 6/7 ... it almost becomes hard to lose a hockey game when your goalie is above .930).

And frankly, Crosby was kind of mediocre in the 2009 Finals ... 3 points in 7 games total, 0 points in game 5, 6 and the deciding game 7. MAF and Malkin took over that series to lead Pittsburgh to the win.

That's not crapping on Crosby, he is an unbelievable player, but it just goes to show ... you need help from teammates.

 

[Rengorlex]

Stupid trope.

Sid and McDavid were first overall “generational “ talents expected to change franchises. Sid accomplished what was expected and it’s unknown if McDavid ever hits that pinnacle.

The fact that the stupid “bro some fourth liner has x amount of cups he’s better” trope is still used in bitterness when cups are valued higher then regular season awards is staggeringly hilarious.

If Cups didn’t matter, why have a playoffs? Why not just have a regular season and that’s it?

Or is this another assumed “players do want regular season awards but they just keep that to themselves “ type of arguement?

Cups are a team award.

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Cups are a team award.

Another dumb trope.

 

[Soundwave]

Another dumb trope.

Which Cup did Gretzky or Lemieux win with even just an above average supporting cast? Or Bobby Orr for that matter?

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

Which Cup did Gretzky or Lemieux win with even just an above average supporting cast? Or Bobby Orr for that matter?

Irrelevant

When the Kings won 2 cups where was the generational talent on those teams?

 

[Rengorlex]

Another dumb trope.

So Stanley Cup is an individual award?

 

[Soundwave]

Irrelevant

When the Kings won 2 cups where was the generational talent on those teams?

It isn't irrelevant. Gretzky and Lemieux played what? A combined 35 seasons in the NHL? Did they ever win one single time without a virtual All-Star team around them?

The Kings won 2 Cups because Doughty is pretty damn close to a generational D-Man at that point and Quick was a Vezina tier goalie in his career and they had tremendous offensive depth especially down the middle (Kopitar, Carter, Richards, Stoll).

 

[Cubs2024WSChamps]

So Stanley Cup is an individual award?

Gretzky had 163 assists one year.

Did he pass it to himself? Or a team mate?