If Holland knew Datsyuk was leaving, should he have traded him at deadline?

[silkyjohnson50]

Either way this topic is comical. Holland can dump this contract EASY. So what if a 38 year old broken down players doesn't play next year. Its no big deal. Its like you fans are dying to see garbage out there.

A lot of people have their own agenda that they want to use this for. Comical indeed.

 

[chances14]

It's been implied from the quotes that Holland, and the Illitch family, convinced him to commit to more term. Obviously Datsyuk agreed, which puts blame on him. Obviously when you pressure somebody into a commitment, you take some blame, too. Ultimately, there's nothing malicious from Datsyuk here. Nor is there anything foolish for Holland trying to talk a legend into staying longer.

I just don't see the point of this back and forth blame game. A guy is moving on with his life. The contract has plenty of time to be handled in some manner.

Damn you Bench with your reasonable conclusions based on facts.

lol. there was no facts stated by bench in that post. Do you know what implied means? Hint: it's pretty similar to assumption

I still have yet to see indisputable evidence that holland pushed datsyuk into a 3 year deal

 

[Bench]

lol. there was no facts stated by bench in that post. Do you know what implied means? Hint: it's pretty similar to assumption

I still have yet to see indisputable evidence that holland pushed datsyuk into a 3 year deal

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...16/04/10/albom-wings-datsyuk-column/82835594/

While this may be a shock to fans, it cannot be to the Red Wings. The truth is, Datsyuk has been squirming to go home since 2012, the year he played in Russia during the NHL lockout.

This isn't speculation. This is from the interview with Mitch Albom. Datsyuk's extension came in 2013, after he was already "squirming".

Look, I don't know how hard the Wings pushed more years, but I do know he almost left last season. And now he wants to go again this season. This is a guy that says he regrets signing his longer deal and has done nothing but pine about going to Russia every off-season. It took a hard sell to even get him to suit up this year.

Is that indisputable? I don't know. I'm sure you can find something to laugh about. But this isn't being pulled out of thin air that Datsyuk has been eyeing home since before he signed his deal. And it is a fact that Holland and Ilitch have made the hard sell to keep him every season since the lockout.

 

[jaster]

There are a lot of circumstances that make this more Holland's fault.

And they are all a very big reach. Like, not-worth-believing kind of reach.

This is on Datsyuk, one way or the other.

 

[jaster]

Damn you Bench with your reasonable conclusions based on facts.

Speculation + Assumptions ≠ Facts

 

[Shaman464]

And they are all a very big reach. Like, not-worth-believing kind of reach.

This is on Datsyuk, one way or the other.

Because he was ready to go home before he signed this contract and there is admitted history of the organization pressuring him to stay? What an evil greedy man walking away from millions of dollars to go home to be with his daughter.

Speculation + Assumptions ≠ Facts

Bench posted relevant links.

 

[chances14]

Yes we all know datsyuk has been considering going back since the lockout. But that does not prove that holland pushed him towards a 3 year deal. In fact it makes datsyuk look even worse for signing it imo

again, it is all speculation. There is no indisputable evidence that holland pushed datsyuk towards the 3 year deal

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/c...16/04/10/albom-wings-datsyuk-column/82835594/



This isn't speculation. This is from the interview with Mitch Albom. Datsyuk's extension came in 2013, after he was already "squirming".

Look, I don't know how hard the Wings pushed more years, but I do know he almost left last season. And now he wants to go again this season. This is a guy that says he regrets signing his longer deal and has done nothing but pine about going to Russia every off-season. It took a hard sell to even get him to suit up this year.

Is that indisputable? I don't know. I'm sure you can find something to laugh about. But this isn't being pulled out of thin air that Datsyuk has been eyeing home since before he signed his deal. And it is a fact that Holland and Ilitch have made the hard sell to keep him every season since the lockout.

One line in an article by Mitch Albom about Datsyuk squirming to go home is a long way away from meaning Holland and the Illitch family pressured him to sign a longer term, which is what you claimed.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Because he was ready to go home before he signed this contract and there is admitted history of the organization pressuring him to stay? What an evil greedy man walking away from millions of dollars to go home to be with his daughter.

Bench posted relevant links.

Going home to be with his daughter, and possibly play hockey in Russia for millions of dollars.

I can't fault the guy for the family part of it but he made a big mistake with his contract that will really hurt the Wings next season.

And he's not doing it purely for his daughter. It sounds like he's doing it in part to play hockey somewhere else.


I'm not pissed at Datsyuk or anything but this is on him, not Holland. And I'm someone who's been pretty critical of Kenny.

 

[Bench]

One line in an article by Mitch Albom about Datsyuk squirming to go home is a long way away from meaning Holland and the Illitch family pressured him to sign a longer term, which is what you claimed.

Well fine. But who do you think negotiated 3 years more aggressively given the circumstances and evidence we have?

I already said it's on Datsyuk for agreeing, but if he was eyeing Russia since the lockout, buyer beware for Holland. "Facts" was the wrong word for him to use, but I think this is all pretty reasonable given what we know and I'm not leveraging an agenda of blame for either party.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Well fine. But who do you think negotiated 3 years more aggressively given the circumstances and evidence we have?

I already said it's on Datsyuk for agreeing, but if he was eyeing Russia since the lockout, buyer beware for Holland. "Facts" was the wrong word for him to use, but I think this is all pretty reasonable given what we know and I'm not leveraging an agenda of blame for either party.

I have no idea. Could've been Datsyuk's agent for all I know.

Yes there should've been some buyer beware on Holland's part especially given the 35+ nature of the deal, but he probably also expected Datsyuk to honor his contract. Datsyuk is a grown man with an agent representing him. At what point is Holland supposed to assume he knows better what's in a player's heart than the player himself?

 

[Bench]

You're assuming I think anyone is to blame again. I don't. Datsyuk already said it's on him. He regrets it. I'm just relaying where the idea comes from that it was likely the Wings pushing more term, since every quote we have about the scenario has had Pavel looking home for years. It's not a huge leap, but I'm not really invested either way. I just don't like people saying I'm pulling this out of thin air to blame Holland.

 

[Shaman464]

Going home to be with his daughter, and possibly play hockey in Russia for millions of dollars.

I can't fault the guy for the family part of it but he made a big mistake with his contract that will really hurt the Wings next season.

And he's not doing it purely for his daughter. It sounds like he's doing it in part to play hockey somewhere else.


I'm not pissed at Datsyuk or anything but this is on him, not Holland. And I'm someone who's been pretty critical of Kenny.

Honestly it's not going to hurt Detroit that badly. Detroit isn't one 7.5 million dollar player away from contending. They are one 7.5 million dollar player from continuing their cycle of mediocrity though. This team doesn't have a core anymore for all intents and purposes and until they actually start rebuilding it the right way this team will never sniff a cup.

 

[ScottyBowman]

Honestly it's not going to hurt Detroit that badly. Detroit isn't one 7.5 million dollar player away from contending. They are one 7.5 million dollar player from continuing their cycle of mediocrity though. This team doesn't have a core anymore for all intents and purposes and until they actually start rebuilding it the right way this team will never sniff a cup.

The voice of reason. It's a good thing so Holland can't blow 7.5 on another Green or Weiss.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I'd rather Datsyuk retire a Red Wing, though I think the knowledge of his impending retirement would have hurt his trade value with that extra year.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Honestly it's not going to hurt Detroit that badly. Detroit isn't one 7.5 million dollar player away from contending. They are one 7.5 million dollar player from continuing their cycle of mediocrity though. This team doesn't have a core anymore for all intents and purposes and until they actually start rebuilding it the right way this team will never sniff a cup.

I agree they certainly aren't one 7 million dollar player away from contending, but losing your best player AND still paying his cap hit definitely hurts the team in a big way.

If Holland wants to use it on a patch like Green then sure ultimately it's not quite as big of a loss because the team is still in no mans land. But it could also be used on the first year of a longer term deal on a player who actually could make a difference.

This off season there's some key RFA signings in Mrazek and Dekeyser but they could walk away from a fair amount of players too. Or god forbid Holland could even make a trade. This team could look substantially different if Holland wanted it to and that $7 mill to play with sure would help.

 

[Shaman464]

I agree they certainly aren't one 7 million dollar player away from contending, but losing your best player AND still paying his cap hit definitely hurts the team in a big way.

If Holland wants to use it on a patch like Green then sure ultimately it's not quite as big of a loss because the team is still in no mans land. But it could also be used on the first year of a longer term deal on a player who actually could make a difference.

This off season there's some key RFA signings in Mrazek and Dekeyser but they could walk away from a fair amount of players too. Or god forbid Holland could even make a trade. This team could look substantially different if Holland wanted it to and that $7 mill to play with sure would help.

They have room to sign the RFAs, they just don't have money to go after a FA. Datsyuk unfortunately probably wouldn't be their best player next year, especially with his heart not in the game and his body being pretty busted up. Holland is much more handcuffed by **** deals given to Howard, Ericsson and Abdelkader over the next few years than he is by one year without Datsyuk.

Honestly I think he needs to learn to stop giving out long term contracts to 35+ players. It always has the risk of doing this.

 

[Shaman464]

Also, why not buy out Datsyuk? Wouldn't that at least that would defer the cost?

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

Also, why not buy out Datsyuk? Wouldn't that at least that would defer the cost?

Contract still counts after buyout. It basically ensures that teams trying to do cap circumventing contracts with players over 35 get screwed.