If Holland knew Datsyuk was leaving, should he have traded him at deadline?

[Flowah]

I don't know why we're acting like Dats *knew* 3 years ago he wouldn't play this last year. Seems like injury forced his hand.

 

[Marky9er]

Since when is he pals with Kuznetsov? My guess is you're thinking of Burmistrov....

Kuznetsov and Ovie are very close, have never heard of Datsyuk being particularly close with either guy though certainly he has a good relationship with Ovechkin, just never hear the friends stuff all that often. For instance Ovie was a groomsmen in Kuznetsov's wedding (before he even came stateside) which was attended by several notable Russian hockey players and Datsyuk wasn't one of them. The ones you hear there are Grabo, Kovy and Semin from time to time, but if he was actually pals with Semin he probably would have vouched for him.

I am not against it, honestly would do anything to move his contract and not be stuck with the dead money. Which I hold Datsyuk entirely responsible for, if you don't want to play three years don't sign the contract. If it doesn't make the money work, then take the lower offer for less years or go to Russia right then. Datsyuk wanted to make the 10 million that year, notice he isn't skipping out on his big money year. Also recently where he was one of the top paid players in the league, he prioritized the home Olympics over our actual team sitting out a month before and after.... It isn't like we haven't made exceptions for him, but this one is incredibly ridiculous. And the I am stupid and don't understand the concept of a three year deal is gross negligence on the part of his agent and himself. Datsyuk is an incredibly bright guy, I realize people love him to death, but his excuse is utter ********.

It is what it is at this point. Holland couldn't have dealt him to a contender, because they don't want his dead money either. The hope is that Arizona or Carolina will take on the dead money for pure cap reasons. Well that or Datsyuk actually decides to honor his agreement and play the final year which is ultimately the ideal scenario. But Holland couldn't move Datsyuk's contract to a contender, they would have the same problem with it next year that we do.

This was a story a while back.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-is-owed-in-part-to-his-friend-pavel-datsyuk/

FWIW, I think it could only happen 50% retained and that might have to be for a conditional pick.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I don't know why we're acting like Dats *knew* 3 years ago he wouldn't play this last year. Seems like injury forced his hand.

Well if he doesn't play in Russia because of said injuries than I have no issue whatsoever with him retiring or sitting out a year because of said injuries. I would ask that he let us LTIR him and hold off on putting in his paperwork until next summer in this scenario.

 

[Shaman464]

Nope Pavel signed a contract he had no intention of honoring. The Wings very much intend on paying Pavel for all three years. Sorry there is one side here not honoring the deal. You can say he was talked into something he didn't want but he wanted to make 10 million a couple years ago and this is how that could happen.

Now he doesn't want to honor his contract and play in a different league and probably actually make more money than he would if he played in Detroit. Sorry doesn't pass the smell test. You can say Holland gambled, sure he did with the same guy you all love unconditionally and would trust not to do something like this. Sorry Datsyuk has maintained he wouldn't finish his career in the NHL forever, not that he would walk away mid-deal ******* us in the process.. What he has to do though in order to switch between teams without missing his final Olympics and the next two World Championships is sit out a year. If Datsyuk was actually retiring from professional hockey or taking the year off this gets a lot different. That isn't what he is doing, apologize it away which ever way you want. If he wanted to do one year deals he could have taken the lower money offer, he didn't do that either.

Surely if Datsyuk is this stupid all we have to do is have Holland talk to him after the season and we can probably get some more years since he doesn't understand the concept of a contract or signing a legal document. This should be a piece of cake...

He cannot have it both ways he wanted the big money, he is breaking his contract which he sure as **** understands as he is far from a dumb guy. He had a change of heart great, I understand that, but his release should come with stipulations. Hopefully we can move his contract, but if not the Wings should absolutely fight his ability to play in the KHL next season. It has to be done, from a NHL and KHL perspective, the NHL cannot accept this. It might not mean much for Datsyuk and the Wings, but they must do it for their league partners so that we don't see this ******** play out with Ovie, Tarasenko or Malkin.

So no one should sign contracts if they think they may not see out the term? Because the NHL believes that it's acceptable, they call it retirement.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I am hoping situations like this lead to a change in how the league handles retirement. Datsyuk's contract was not cap circumvention. Having retirement count against the cap in a league with guaranteed contracts is stupid.

I still think 29 other GMs in the league would have looked at trading Datsyuk in this situation, unless they were surefire cup contenders.

 

[chances14]

Except the Alblom article says that Datysuk didn't want a 3 year deal and told Holland so. And that Dats wanted out after 1 year, and still wants out after 2 years.

please point out in that article where this was said because I'm not seeing it

 

[jaster]

The attempts to spin the reality of this situation into a narrative where Holland is the idiot bad guy and the goofy, aw-sucks Datsyuk can do no wrong is kind of embarrassing.

I hope he just surprises us all and comes back for his last season.

 

[Frk It]

This thread is ridiculous. He wants to retire a year early so we owe him a shot at a Cup? **** that.

He's got 2 Cups and played about a million playoff games. We don't owe him anything. Needs to play his career out as a Wing.

 

[Shaman464]

The attempts to spin the reality of this situation into a narrative where Holland is the idiot bad guy and the goofy, aw-sucks Datsyuk can do no wrong is kind of embarrassing.

I hope he just surprises us all and comes back for his last season.

There are a lot of circumstances that make this more Holland's fault.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

So no one should sign contracts if they think they may not see out the term? Because the NHL believes that it's acceptable, they call it retirement.

If they retire from professional hockey sure... That is a retirement, if they are leaving to make more in another country where there is actually an agreement to honor each others existing contracts well that is a different song and dance.

But it really isn't that hard to see who is at fault no matter how much people hate Holland. One side is quite willing to fulfill the arrangement the other is not.

You can go with the fact he realized he didn't want to do it. He was sweet talked into it by the promise of more money up front. Those are all things he agreed to. This isn't Rafalski walking away from money to actually retire. It is entirely different. Pavel signed off on this and he isn't a dumb guy. He is breaking a written agreement, it is really that simple and in doing so is harming us massively on the cap. If his heart isn't in it that is fine, go to Yekateringburg and retire. That or sit out the mandatory year between leagues when violating a contract. Pretty cut and dry from a legal standpoint who is at fault here and it stinks that it appears this is how it ends for Datsyuk and the Wings.

Always will be thankful for the wonderful years we did have, but I can view this separately and I understand not all can. It is fine, but I am going to remain pretty unwavering in terms of my opinion on this unless the situation evolves differently than it seems to be heading.

 

[Shaman464]

If they retire from professional hockey sure... That is a retirement, if they are leaving to make more in another country where there is actually an agreement to honor each others existing contracts well that is a different song and dance.

But it really isn't that hard to see who is at fault no matter how much people hate Holland. One side is quite willing to fulfill the arrangement the other is not.

You can go with the fact he realized he didn't want to do it. He was sweet talked into it by the promise of more money up front. Those are all things he agreed to. This isn't Rafalski walking away from money to actually retire. It is entirely different. Pavel signed off on this and he isn't a dumb guy. He is breaking a written agreement, it is really that simple and in doing so is harming us massively on the cap. If his heart isn't in it that is fine, go to Yekateringburg and retire. That or sit out the mandatory year between leagues when violating a contract. Pretty cut and dry from a legal standpoint who is at fault here and it stinks that it appears this is how it ends for Datsyuk and the Wings.

Always will be thankful for the wonderful years we did have, but I can view this separately and I understand not all can. It is fine, but I am going to remain pretty unwavering in terms of my opinion on this unless the situation evolves differently than it seems to be heading.

First, there is 0 indication that he's leaving for the money. He's leaving because he wants to be closer to his family. Let me give you another scenario: I work for a university as a professor. I have a contract. I have a family issue that forces me to need to relocate. I am allowed due to the agreement to terminate my contract and to pursue employment elsewhere. Same for Datsyuk, he has decided, due to family reasons, that he wishes to seek employment elsewhere. Holland knew when he signed at 35+ player that there were a lot of circumstances that could lead to him not fulfilling his contract. Holland didn't want to pay him year to year for a number of reasons, including it increasing his chances of leaving and to have a more manageable cap hit. He gambled and he lost. Datsyuk is not wrong here.

 

[Bench]

I don't really see the need to assign fault. Things change. That's life. Holland has been given enough advance notice that his capologist people can find solutions. Adapt or die, ya know.

As for the original question, no, you don't trade your franchise player on the eve of retirement in the middle of making the playoffs. We should all just be thankful we were not buyers this year.

 

[chances14]

Holland didn't want to pay him year to year for a number of reasons, including it increasing his chances of leaving and to have a more manageable cap hit. He gambled and he lost. Datsyuk is not wrong here.

yet again more assumptions to spin this into being all holland's fault.

We do not know the exact circumstances of why datsyuk signed a 3 year deal and not one year deals

 

[Shaman464]

yet again more assumptions to spin this into being all holland's fault.

We do not know the exact circumstances of why datsyuk signed a 3 year deal and not one year deals

We don't, but from the fact that it was mentioned from day one after this contract he was a flight risk, his marriage was going to **** and his daughter was going back to Russia there is no reason to believe that Holland didn't know there was a high chance Dats could retire before the end of the contract. Add that to the fact that there would be no reason not to sign Dats year to year if Holland thought he'd keep signing and the figure would be reasonable. He signed him thinking he could use it to keep him in Detroit longer than he otherwise would be at a lower potential cap hit.

 

[Bench]

We do not know the exact circumstances of why datsyuk signed a 3 year deal and not one year deals

It's been implied from the quotes that Holland, and the Illitch family, convinced him to commit to more term. Obviously Datsyuk agreed, which puts blame on him. Obviously when you pressure somebody into a commitment, you take some blame, too. Ultimately, there's nothing malicious from Datsyuk here. Nor is there anything foolish for Holland trying to talk a legend into staying longer.

I just don't see the point of this back and forth blame game. A guy is moving on with his life. The contract has plenty of time to be handled in some manner.

 

[Shaman464]

It's been implied from the quotes that Holland, and the Illitch family, convinced him to commit to more term. Obviously Datsyuk agreed, which puts blame on him. Obviously when you pressure somebody into a commitment, you take some blame, too. Ultimately, there's nothing malicious from Datsyuk here. Nor is there anything foolish for Holland trying to talk a legend into staying longer.

I just don't see the point of this back and forth blame game. A guy is moving on with his life. The contract has plenty of time to be handled in some manner.

Damn you Bench with your reasonable conclusions based on facts.

 

[Bench]

Damn you Bench with your reasonable conclusions based on facts.

I'm trying, man!

Really the only way I get into a beef with Holland about this is if he sits on his hands and has dead cap space. I don't think that happens, though. But if it does, and it actually holds back the team from some level of long-term improvement, that's when I grumble on this forum like it's my job.

But I think there's an argument to be made that dead cap space wouldn't really hurt this current team. Maybe you spend it on Stamkos or Okposo, but other than that...? I mean for the Wings, it's cash money they don't spend. That's kinda nice in terms of business. The roster is forced to go with cheaper options. Does that help the rebuild? Maybe it forces the hand on some of the shaky contracts on the books. Again, looking more towards long-term growth than simply filling that Datsyuk void with whatever you can.

It's hard to say how this shakes out at this moment. Right now I think it's a non-factor, but like Datsyuk, I have the right to change my mind.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We don't, but from the fact that it was mentioned from day one after this contract he was a flight risk, his marriage was going to **** and his daughter was going back to Russia there is no reason to believe that Holland didn't know there was a high chance Dats could retire before the end of the contract. Add that to the fact that there would be no reason not to sign Dats year to year if Holland thought he'd keep signing and the figure would be reasonable. He signed him thinking he could use it to keep him in Detroit longer than he otherwise would be at a lower potential cap hit.

Pavel Datsyuk was divorced before signing his last contract. He has since remarried, and I want to say the first time this really popped up was when he brought his then girlfriend and now second wife to the 2012 NHL awards. So no that part of your story doesn't line up at all...

That felt like TMZ...

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm trying, man!

Really the only way I get into a beef with Holland about this is if he sits on his hands and has dead cap space. I don't think that happens, though. But if it does, and it actually holds back the team from some level of long-term improvement, that's when I grumble on this forum like it's my job.

But I think there's an argument to be made that dead cap space wouldn't really hurt this current team. Maybe you spend it on Stamkos or Okposo, but other than that...? I mean for the Wings, it's cash money they don't spend. That's kinda nice in terms of business. The roster is forced to go with cheaper options. Does that help the rebuild? Maybe it forces the hand on some of the shaky contracts on the books. Again, looking more towards long-term growth than simply filling that Datsyuk void with whatever you can.

It's hard to say how this shakes out at this moment. Right now I think it's a non-factor, but like Datsyuk, I have the right to change my mind.

I wonder if there is league pressure to actually fight this situation though. I am sure their 29 partners would like to see them really take this situation to task.

I hope they move his contract, even if they don't spend the money right away it gives them more flexibility should they overachieve and become buyers at some point or the right trade opens up for them to take on money for assets. If they are sticking to keeping his hit, I think we can expect some legal battle on behalf of the league interests in my opinion.

 

[Sentinel]

People claiming Datsyuk signed a contract he had no intention of honoring are out of their minds. Did he know he was gonna break the ankle and have a four hour long surgery? Are you nuts?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It's been implied from the quotes that Holland, and the Illitch family, convinced him to commit to more term. Obviously Datsyuk agreed, which puts blame on him. Obviously when you pressure somebody into a commitment, you take some blame, too. Ultimately, there's nothing malicious from Datsyuk here. Nor is there anything foolish for Holland trying to talk a legend into staying longer.

I just don't see the point of this back and forth blame game. A guy is moving on with his life. The contract has plenty of time to be handled in some manner.

Which quotes?

All I've seen allude to pressure from Holland and Ilitch to honor his existing contract and continue to play for the Wings. I haven't read anything about them pressuring him to commit to more term when they were negotiating his contract.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

People claiming Datsyuk signed a contract he had no intention of honoring are out of their minds. Did he know he was gonna break the ankle and have a four hour long surgery? Are you nuts?

So again, stop playing hockey then... Changes my position on this universally. If he is playing in the KHL the injury crap is going to be a weak argument. Schedule is easier or whatever, we let him put off his ankle surgery and then miss two months of the season this year. Have let him sit out a month before and after to play for Russia. They are pretty accommodating to letting him have time off. NHL has a bye week next year too.

Think he will skip out on the World Cup? We will have to see what Datsyuk does in order for the ankle to be the issue, one he doesn't use as the primary factor either.... You know because he seems to be leaning heavily towards continuing to play hockey professionally.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I am hoping situations like this lead to a change in how the league handles retirement. Datsyuk's contract was not cap circumvention. Having retirement count against the cap in a league with guaranteed contracts is stupid.

I still think 29 other GMs in the league would have looked at trading Datsyuk in this situation, unless they were surefire cup contenders.

I am I'm complete agreement with you. The rules of the league's cap are kind of stupid if you ask me. It would be nice if it was more like the NFL. That way we could cut people from the roster when they start playing like garbage & not have it shaft us years down the road because of the cap hit. (I'm talking to you, Ericsson and Howard.)

 

[ScottyBowman]

I am I'm complete agreement with you. The rules of the league's cap are kind of stupid if you ask me. It would be nice if it was more like the NFL. That way we could cut people from the roster when they start playing like garbage & not have it shaft us years down the road because of the cap hit. (I'm talking to you, Ericsson and Howard.)

Thats not true with the NFL. You still get shafted. Either way this topic is comical. Holland can dump this contract EASY. So what if a 38 year old broken down players doesn't play next year. Its no big deal. Its like you fans are dying to see garbage out there.

 

[PelagicJoe]

Thats not true with the NFL. You still get shafted. Either way this topic is comical. Holland can dump this contract EASY. So what if a 38 year old broken down players doesn't play next year. Its no big deal. Its like you fans are dying to see garbage out there.

I stand corrected. It still seems like it is a lot easier to move players in the other sports compared to the NHL.