If Holland knew Datsyuk was leaving, should he have traded him at deadline?

[Roomba With a Bauer]

So, ever since Datsyuk announced he was leaving, a question has been on my mind. Ken Holland acts like he had no idea Datsyuk was leaving, but I think that is BS.

The question is, assuming Datsyuk told KH he was leaving, should Holland have traded Datsyuk at the deadline to a. Give him a chance at the cup, b. Get rid of his cap hit, and c. get an asset before Datsyuk leaves us with a gaping hole in our roster.

It was pretty clear even at the deadline that this team was a bubble team with little serious chance at the cup.

I think the answer is pretty clearly yes. We could have probably gotten a late first for Dats, and while we would have certainly missed the playoffs we would have gotten a top 10 pick with an outside shot at the top three. We could have also traded soon-to-be UFA Helm for a low second and gone into the draft with four picks in the first two rounds. You could probably also unload Howard at the draft with money retained for another second.

While capitulating on this year's playoffs would sting, two first round picks with our developing young core would make this team far more attractive to UFAs. I think we would be a far stronger team next year, especially if we use the freed up money and assets to get a few legit top-six UFAs (Stamkos) or a legit top-pair D (Shattenkirk, Handle). With our young players and the chance of reloading, we would be potential cup contenders within a few years, instead of being out 7.5 mil and a top-six C next season.

Thoughts?

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[Ezekial]

No one would've traded for his contract knowing he would retire, and yes they would've been aware if Holland did that move.

 

[Electric Eric]

Also Datsyuk has a full NMC/NTC. Doubt he wanted to be traded while the season was still going.

 

[Reality Check]

Sounds nice in theory but unrealistic all the way around.

Outside Bill Belichick, name a GM who is absolutely cutthroat in terms of player personal.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

If he knew Datsyuk wanted to leave, he shouldn't have offered him a 3 year deal with a $7.5M cap hit. Holland gambled on Datsyuk staying for all 3 years once the contract was signed. Holland lost.

Personally, I think its a blessing in disguise. It accelerated the rebuild, and dead cap space prevents Holland from trying to plug the leaks with more vets.

 

[Claypool]

If he knew Datsyuk wanted to leave, he shouldn't have offered him a 3 year deal with a $7.5M cap hit. Holland gambled on Datsyuk staying for all 3 years once the contract was signed. Holland lost.

This is 100% on Datsyuk and his agent. Let's stop criticizing Holland for signing his best player to a multi-year deal. Datsyuk wasn't forced to sign the deal. He and his agent wanted the money and security.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

This is 100% on Datsyuk and his agent. Let's stop criticizing Holland for signing his best player to a multi-year deal. Datsyuk wasn't forced to sign the deal. He and his agent wanted the money and security.

Except the Alblom article says that Datysuk didn't want a 3 year deal and told Holland so. And that Dats wanted out after 1 year, and still wants out after 2 years.

 

[Claypool]

Except the Alblom article says that Datysuk didn't want a 3 year deal and told Holland so. And that Dats wanted out after 1 year, and still wants out after 2 years.

Then he shouldn't have signed it. Hes not in Russia.

 

[Oddbob]

How about, it was probably about being loyal to a major cog in our teams success over the years. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the kind of players you keep, at the end of their careers, out of loyalty. I like that about Detroit, I seriously do. Loyalty to the KEY guys to me is a must.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

How about, it was probably about being loyal to a major cog in our teams success over the years. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the kind of players you keep, at the end of their careers, out of loyalty. I like that about Detroit, I seriously do. Loyalty to the KEY guys to me is a must.

Loyalty is why the Edmonton Oilers are where they are. BTW, loyalty also means giving your stars a chance to win after they sign sweetheart contracts for years. Loyalty is an excuse to not make hard choices.

I hope loyalty keeps this fanbase happy when we are consistently missing the playoffs for the next decade.

 

[Oddbob]

I am not talking about loyalty to every player, but Datsyuk, and Zetterberg, have been key and quite frankly are still key, considering they still lead the team in points.

 

[Marky9er]

I still think that there could be another plot twist in which Datsyuk let's it slip he'd return to the NHL to play with a contender (this is to say Ovechkin and Kuznetsov). I suppose he could "retire" and return to NA mid season. This way his season is much shorter and he gets more time at home. This is the only scenario I could see him back in the NHL, with his pal Kuznetsov.

 

[Shoalzie]

I don't think Lecavalier's situation in Los Angeles is comparable but the Kings acquired his contract with the idea that he's going to retire after this year and I don't think the Kings would be on the hook for the rest of his contract.

 

[Oddbob]

I don't think Lecavalier's situation in Los Angeles is comparable but the Kings acquired his contract with the idea that he's going to retire after this year and I don't think the Kings would be on the hook for the rest of his contract.

His situation might be different though, as I think he signed this last deal before turning 35, where as Datsyuk was already there. I could be wrong though.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Loyalty is why the Edmonton Oilers are where they are.

That's demonstrably untrue. Edmonton has been bad for a long time now entirely unrelated to loyalty towards any player. Edmonton got bad because they waited two years too long to fire Lowe, who in a scramble to save his job loaded the team up with a bunch of bad contracts in an attempt to goose some short term success out of a franchise.

I hope loyalty keeps this fanbase happy when we are consistently missing the playoffs for the next decade.

Well right now it seems like no one cares if the team makes the playoffs or not, so why should a decade (or even just a few years) of missing them make anyone uncomfortable?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Datsyuk wasn't even going to play this past season, It was only out of respect for Mike and Marian Ilitch that he even played this past year.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I still think that there could be another plot twist in which Datsyuk let's it slip he'd return to the NHL to play with a contender (this is to say Ovechkin and Kuznetsov). I suppose he could "retire" and return to NA mid season. This way his season is much shorter and he gets more time at home. This is the only scenario I could see him back in the NHL, with his pal Kuznetsov.

Since when is he pals with Kuznetsov? My guess is you're thinking of Burmistrov....

Kuznetsov and Ovie are very close, have never heard of Datsyuk being particularly close with either guy though certainly he has a good relationship with Ovechkin, just never hear the friends stuff all that often. For instance Ovie was a groomsmen in Kuznetsov's wedding (before he even came stateside) which was attended by several notable Russian hockey players and Datsyuk wasn't one of them. The ones you hear there are Grabo, Kovy and Semin from time to time, but if he was actually pals with Semin he probably would have vouched for him.

I am not against it, honestly would do anything to move his contract and not be stuck with the dead money. Which I hold Datsyuk entirely responsible for, if you don't want to play three years don't sign the contract. If it doesn't make the money work, then take the lower offer for less years or go to Russia right then. Datsyuk wanted to make the 10 million that year, notice he isn't skipping out on his big money year. Also recently where he was one of the top paid players in the league, he prioritized the home Olympics over our actual team sitting out a month before and after.... It isn't like we haven't made exceptions for him, but this one is incredibly ridiculous. And the I am stupid and don't understand the concept of a three year deal is gross negligence on the part of his agent and himself. Datsyuk is an incredibly bright guy, I realize people love him to death, but his excuse is utter ********.

It is what it is at this point. Holland couldn't have dealt him to a contender, because they don't want his dead money either. The hope is that Arizona or Carolina will take on the dead money for pure cap reasons. Well that or Datsyuk actually decides to honor his agreement and play the final year which is ultimately the ideal scenario. But Holland couldn't move Datsyuk's contract to a contender, they would have the same problem with it next year that we do.

 

[JPE123]

I'm not as hard on Pavel as TZE but honestly do you want him back next year if his heart isn't in it? Do you think he will play hurt as he has in the past? In my experience once a guy has made up his mind he wants to leave, even subconsciously he's already gone. We are probably not going to be a contender next year either and I don't see the value of forcing him to stay especially if we can move the contract.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I'm not as hard on Pavel as TZE but honestly do you want him back next year if his heart isn't in it? Do you think he will play hurt as he has in the past? In my experience once a guy has made up his mind he wants to leave, even subconsciously he's already gone. We are probably not going to be a contender next year either and I don't see the value of forcing him to stay especially if we can move the contract.

At this point you are probably right. Hopefully we can move the contract. I just am a little tired of hearing that Pavel Datsyuk, the player his teammates constantly call the smartest guy on the team and not just on ice IQ doesn't understand the concept of signing a contract and what it means while being advised by his agent. Really??? Really....

Moving him at the Trade Deadline wasn't really an option though.

If they don't move his contract and he does sign in the KHL though, I fully support the Wings doing what the Devils failed their league partners, by just rolling over. It would be an unfortunate end to a magnificent relationship, but they should sue over breach of contract..

Which is really what I wonder about this coming out. How exactly did they talk him into coming back.... Was it we are totally screwed on the cap... Datsyuk doesn't seem to care about that, I mean he feels bad as he said... That or did it get a little more contentious than we thinks, like we will try to get money back and block you from the KHL for at least one season. You know plus the KHL would have a tough time beating his US salary this year and he was actually playing closer to the KHL amount of games by waiting until mid-summer for the surgery. He came back out of respect for the Ilitch family is great. It reads great, it doesn't mean the discussions were really that simple. You think the Wings didn't tell him that walking away now would be horrific. That he would at least have to sit out so they could LTIR his contract or they would need to look into other avenues and finding an organization that would be excited to take on two years of nothing would be a lot harder.

 

[sarcastro]

They would never have considered trading him. Nor should they.

Trading his contract if he retires? Maybe. But watching him finish his career in a Wings jersey rather than a Blues jersey (I just threw up in my mouth) is worth more than a third round pick, or whatever chotchky they would have gotten for him.

 

[Shaman464]

At this point you are probably right. Hopefully we can move the contract. I just am a little tired of hearing that Pavel Datsyuk, the player his teammates constantly call the smartest guy on the team and not just on ice IQ doesn't understand the concept of signing a contract and what it means while being advised by his agent. Really??? Really....

Moving him at the Trade Deadline wasn't really an option though.

If they don't move his contract and he does sign in the KHL though, I fully support the Wings doing what the Devils failed their league partners, by just rolling over. It would be an unfortunate end to a magnificent relationship, but they should sue over breach of contract..

Which is really what I wonder about this coming out. How exactly did they talk him into coming back.... Was it we are totally screwed on the cap... Datsyuk doesn't seem to care about that, I mean he feels bad as he said... That or did it get a little more contentious than we thinks, like we will try to get money back and block you from the KHL for at least one season. You know plus the KHL would have a tough time beating his US salary this year and he was actually playing closer to the KHL amount of games by waiting until mid-summer for the surgery. He came back out of respect for the Ilitch family is great. It reads great, it doesn't mean the discussions were really that simple. You think the Wings didn't tell him that walking away now would be horrific. That he would at least have to sit out so they could LTIR his contract or they would need to look into other avenues and finding an organization that would be excited to take on two years of nothing would be a lot harder.

Again it seems you missed what probably went on: Detroit couldn't afford to pay Pavel more than about 7.5 a season on average. Holland knew that he couldn't afford to pay Pavs what he was worth so he countered with a frontloaded contract. Holland did this knowing Pav had indicated he wasn't interested in finishing his career in the NHL and had indicated he wanted one year contracts. Holland and Pavs both knew that he was over 35 when he signed it and that according to the bargaining agreements in the NHL he has the right to retire from it for whatever reason he so wanted. So now, when he's playing on body parts taken from dead bodies and has a daughter in a country half a world a way he wants to retire it is well within his rights.

This comes down to Holland hoping that Pavs loyalty would mean that he would play out his contract when all indications pointed towards that being a pipedream. This falls squarely where it should: On Ken Holland.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Again it seems you missed what probably went on: Detroit couldn't afford to pay Pavel more than about 7.5 a season on average. Holland knew that he couldn't afford to pay Pavs what he was worth so he countered with a frontloaded contract. Holland did this knowing Pav had indicated he wasn't interested in finishing his career in the NHL and had indicated he wanted one year contracts. Holland and Pavs both knew that he was over 35 when he signed it and that according to the bargaining agreements in the NHL he has the right to retire from it for whatever reason he so wanted. So now, when he's playing on body parts taken from dead bodies and has a daughter in a country half a world a way he wants to retire it is well within his rights.

This comes down to Holland hoping that Pavs loyalty would mean that he would play out his contract when all indications pointed towards that being a pipedream. This falls squarely where it should: On Ken Holland.

Nope Pavel signed a contract he had no intention of honoring. The Wings very much intend on paying Pavel for all three years. Sorry there is one side here not honoring the deal. You can say he was talked into something he didn't want but he wanted to make 10 million a couple years ago and this is how that could happen.

Now he doesn't want to honor his contract and play in a different league and probably actually make more money than he would if he played in Detroit. Sorry doesn't pass the smell test. You can say Holland gambled, sure he did with the same guy you all love unconditionally and would trust not to do something like this. Sorry Datsyuk has maintained he wouldn't finish his career in the NHL forever, not that he would walk away mid-deal ******* us in the process.. What he has to do though in order to switch between teams without missing his final Olympics and the next two World Championships is sit out a year. If Datsyuk was actually retiring from professional hockey or taking the year off this gets a lot different. That isn't what he is doing, apologize it away which ever way you want. If he wanted to do one year deals he could have taken the lower money offer, he didn't do that either.

Surely if Datsyuk is this stupid all we have to do is have Holland talk to him after the season and we can probably get some more years since he doesn't understand the concept of a contract or signing a legal document. This should be a piece of cake...

He cannot have it both ways he wanted the big money, he is breaking his contract which he sure as **** understands as he is far from a dumb guy. He had a change of heart great, I understand that, but his release should come with stipulations. Hopefully we can move his contract, but if not the Wings should absolutely fight his ability to play in the KHL next season. It has to be done, from a NHL and KHL perspective, the NHL cannot accept this. It might not mean much for Datsyuk and the Wings, but they must do it for their league partners so that we don't see this ******** play out with Ovie, Tarasenko or Malkin.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Except the Alblom article says that Datysuk didn't want a 3 year deal and told Holland so. And that Dats wanted out after 1 year, and still wants out after 2 years.

Could you quote the part of the article saying Dats didn't want the deal and told Holland that? I don't remember anything like that.

I remember Datsyuk saying if he had to do it over again he'd sign a one year deal, but that's about it.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Again it seems you missed what probably went on: Detroit couldn't afford to pay Pavel more than about 7.5 a season on average. Holland knew that he couldn't afford to pay Pavs what he was worth so he countered with a frontloaded contract. Holland did this knowing Pav had indicated he wasn't interested in finishing his career in the NHL and had indicated he wanted one year contracts. Holland and Pavs both knew that he was over 35 when he signed it and that according to the bargaining agreements in the NHL he has the right to retire from it for whatever reason he so wanted. So now, when he's playing on body parts taken from dead bodies and has a daughter in a country half a world a way he wants to retire it is well within his rights.

This comes down to Holland hoping that Pavs loyalty would mean that he would play out his contract when all indications pointed towards that being a pipedream. This falls squarely where it should: On Ken Holland.

When did Datsyuk indicate he wanted 1 year deals? Is there a source for this?

I've seen that in hindsight he wishes he had done 1 year deals, but that's a big difference than what you're insinuating here.

His situation might be different though, as I think he signed this last deal before turning 35, where as Datsyuk was already there. I could be wrong though.

You're correct. Vinny was bought out by Tampa, then signed by the Flyers to a 5 year deal when he was 33 years old.

 

[Reddwit]

Detroit couldn't afford to sign Datsyuk to a $7.5M deal. *Gives Dan Cleary almost $2M*