Proposal: I was convinced that a Nylander for Tkachuk trade would have been a great opportunity for Dubas.

[Fogelhund]

Remember Florida is a tax free zone... Tkachuk in another market would have had a larger AAV to make sure his take home pay is equal at the end.

$9.5 mil in a tax free zone is the equivalent of $11 mil AAV in a higher tax bracket.

and $10.5 to $11 is what I had expected his ask would be, but you are correct that with potentially lower taxes in Florida, he could take less.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Not sure if you are implying this, but I doubt if it would be a one for one Nylander for Tkachuk trade.

Agreed. I doubt a trade of this nature would be one for one like you said. What I would like to imply is that TOR is soft. That a trade of this nature could improve their playoff performance. I don't see Simmonds or Clifford having significant roles for TOR in the near future. Heck. We don't even know if Muzzin will be with the Leafs in the near future. Deep down I feel that Shanny has gone against his own values when it comes to how TOR was built.

 

[kellmuff96]

yea another high priced forward leaving you less room to address your depth and blueline is exactly what Toronto needed.

lmao this website sometimes...

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Isn't the no tax in FLA a myth?

I just read this:

"Florida is one of the few states that does not collect income taxes. However, its state and local tax burden of 8.9 percent ranks it 34th nationally. While you might not have to file a tax return, there are many other ways the state collects money."

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Agreed. I doubt a trade of this nature would be one for one like you said. What I would like to imply is that TOR is soft. That a trade of this nature could improve their playoff performance. I don't see Simmonds or Clifford having significant roles for TOR in the near future. Heck. We don't even know if Muzzin will be with the Leafs in the near future. Deep down I feel that Shanny has gone against his own values when it comes to how TOR was built.

Meh, Tkachuk hasn't shown he's better than Nylander in the playoffs to be honest. I live in Calgary so Im always in tune with the Flames playoff runs. Honestly would rather have Playoff Nylander over Tkachuk. Now if you could play them together..... That would be nice.

 

[Antropovsky]

8 years is nice.....in a few years with our luck the cap will shoot up and Marner, Matthews and Nylander will be looking for 13% of the cap and again we won't be able to compete with teams whose young stars of similar age signed long term.

 

[danny90]

Does anyone on this forum watch hockey outside of the Leafs?

If more people did this, we wouldn't have so many Leaf fans who have created this mythology around Matthew Tkachuk.

- He's not a playoff performer. Marner gets saddled with this reputation largely because he's a small, skilled, flashly player. Tkachuck does not because he's big and gritty. Look at the numbers, Marner outperforms him by magnitudes
- He's doesn't kill penalties. Marner does and was the the primary reason the Leafs PK was second in the league last in terms of limiting shots and first in the league in generating offensive chances.
- He's not as good defensively, He's not particularly bad but he's not good either. Marner is one of the best defensive wingers in the game, he's just overshadowed by Matthews.
- Tkachuk scored 7 more goals in 10 more games than Marner did (42 in 82 to 35 in 72), it's not that wide of a gap.
- They've played the same amount of games in the same number of seasons, neither player gets injured very often. Marner missed a bunch of games this year due to COVID protocols which have nothing to do with on ice play.
- His only clear advantage is he draws more penalties than Marner does.

There's a lot more to defense than counting stats but since a lot of you still judge players based on them, here's a short summary of how they compare defensively using Don Cherry logic

- Blocked shots, Marner had 31 to Tkachuk's 20
- Plus Minus - Tkachuk had 57 to Marner's 23
- Takeaways - Marner has 72 to Tkachuk's 41
- Giveaways - Marner despite being a volume passer has 63 giveaways vs Tkachuk's 91.

Factor in the analytics, Marner absolutely crushes Tkachuk defensively.

Now with all that said, also consider that Tkachuk is being paid $9.5 million vs Marner's $10.8 million. Marner might be overpaid but imagine someone significantly worse than him in almost every area of hockey that gets paid only $1.3 million less - and that's with the Florida Low Tax Discount, does Tkachuk + a hypothetical player that makes $1.3 million or less have more impact on the team than Marner?

So crazy how people ignore how much better Marner is

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Marner is the only asset we have that can get tkachuk 1 for 1. Becomes Tkachuk+++++++++++++ if you move up to Matthews.

Nothing to get riled up over it's like telling someone what color your shirt is. Debating whose better in the playoffs seems like a silly way to spend your time since neither have made a name for themselves in the playoffs yet.

Tkachuk has established himself as a young star. Marner is a young star. If you own one of these guys you're in good shape.

 

[pcruz]

Wouldn't this deal make more sense, especially since we're strapped on cap.

1st round 2023 + Kerfoot + Holl + Prospect or 2nd round pick

For

Jonathan Huberdeau(50% retained)

We would then have the option to trade Tavares after this season and regain our assets we lost trading for Huberdeau plus sign Jonathan to a lower cap hit...win/win

Also that gives Kyle an extra 2.750M to sign Sandin & any free agent

You think that Calgary is going to take our scraps for half of Huberdeau who put up 115 points last year?

Panthers are finally feeling the cap crunch. They basically accelerated into cap hell, fast forwarding past the last affordable year of Huberdeau and Weegar, have no first rounders till 2025, are $3.3 million over the cap, and are threadbare on defense. And next year Spencer Knight is going to probably get a healthy raise.

The Panthers haven't even fully paid for Matthew Tkachuck yet.
By being over $3M above the cap, they're going to have to dump another player in order to fit Duclair back into the line-up.

I don't know who that may be, but there is no way the team can go into the regular season as is today.

 

[Shooter2x]

Panthers are finally feeling the cap crunch. They basically accelerated into cap hell, fast forwarding past the last affordable year of Huberdeau and Weegar, have no first rounders till 2025, are $3.3 million over the cap, and are threadbare on defense. And next year Spencer Knight is going to probably get a healthy raise.

We keep hearing the same thing about Leafs every year. Last season half the world didn't even think we'd make the playoffs. Yet we keep staying at the top of the standings and our playoff woes haven't been cap related.

Florida is going to go through the same cap hell comments and finish top 5 still. Book it

 

[93LEAFS]

Isn't the no tax in FLA a myth?

I just read this:

"Florida is one of the few states that does not collect income taxes. However, its state and local tax burden of 8.9 percent ranks it 34th nationally. While you might not have to file a tax return, there are many other ways the state collects money."

A lot of states make up for lack of state tax by living in the areas you'd want to live in as a rich person hitting you with significant property tax to pay for your community public school. Its why you see such a massive disparity in certain states between the haves and the have-nots when it comes to public education. Like, say midtown Toronto was it is on municipality consisting of Forest Hill, Rosedale, Moore, Park, Lawrence Park etc, and public schools were paid for by local taxes, those schools would likely be very high end, probably comparable to top private schools. Whereas if say Mount Olive/Rexdale and north west etobicoke was its own municipality, and the local schools were paid for through property taxes the disparity between the regions schools would be massive. It's why flight to suburbia in a lot of American cities or even specific townships is a massive deal in certain American states.

 

[zeke]

We keep hearing the same thing about Leafs every year. Last season half the world didn't even think we'd make the playoffs. Yet we keep staying at the top of the standings and our playoff woes haven't been cap related.

Florida is going to go through the same cap hell comments and finish top 5 still. Book it

Toronto has never gone through losing arguably their best forward and best dman in an offseason, though.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Toronto has never gone through losing arguably their best forward and best dman in an offseason, though.

Well, they did lose Kessel in the off season and Phaneuf part way through the next season....

But if either was "arguably their best forward (or) best dman" is open to debate.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

That look would have been a better deal than what Calgary got. Nylander has 2 years left before UFA and he's younger. His family has a Calgary connection so he would likely re-sign there. Lili/Sandin will not be UFA at the end of this season and will be cheap contracts. I don't think Dubas would offer that package, considering that Tkachuk would likely not re-sign with Toronto so he would be a 1-year rental.

Now we can all watch Florida pay a heavy price in the standings at no cost to ourselves.

Huberdeau is so much better than Nylander, this isn’t close. There’s no way the flames do a deal around Nylander imo.

 

[Spargon]

Why do people still have this obsession with being us being "soft" and needing "grit".

The Leafs play a puck possession game which means they don't throw a lot of checks chasing said puck.

Do the Leafs really get bullied and pushed around so badly? I don't see it, sure some players might but players on every team do.

Guys like Nylander make some weak efforts but he also throws his shoulder down and drives the net and fights off 2 guys around the net to keep the puck as well.

Does having 20-30 more hits a game that really amount to absolutely nothing going to make the Leafs better?

I see people ready to give up 1st++ for Lawson f***ing Crouse and salivating at having him. Remember Nick Ritchie you all creamed yourselves over for years saying he was just what we needed? How did that go, that's Crouse.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Why do people still have this obsession with being us being "soft" and needing "grit".

The Leafs play a puck possession game which means they don't throw a lot of checks chasing said puck.

Do the Leafs really get bullied and pushed around so badly? I don't see it, sure some players might but players on every team do.

Guys like Nylander make some weak efforts but he also throws his shoulder down and drives the net and fights off 2 guys around the net to keep the puck as well.

Does having 20-30 more hits a game that really amount to absolutely nothing going to make the Leafs better?

I see people ready to give up 1st++ for Lawson f***ing Crouse and salivating at having him. Remember Nick Ritchie you all creamed yourselves over for years saying he was just what we needed? How did that go, that's Crouse.

Terrible post.

I see people wanting us to get softer and softer. Remember Petan?

 

[ACC1224]

Why do people still have this obsession with being us being "soft" and needing "grit".

The Leafs play a puck possession game which means they don't throw a lot of checks chasing said puck.

Do the Leafs really get bullied and pushed around so badly? I don't see it, sure some players might but players on every team do.

Guys like Nylander make some weak efforts but he also throws his shoulder down and drives the net and fights off 2 guys around the net to keep the puck as well.

Does having 20-30 more hits a game that really amount to absolutely nothing going to make the Leafs better?

I see people ready to give up 1st++ for Lawson f***ing Crouse and salivating at having him. Remember Nick Ritchie you all creamed yourselves over for years saying he was just what we needed? How did that go, that's Crouse.

People are typically referring to the playoffs when teams care more and do more of the little things that make you successful. It was better last year but still not good enough.

 

[Holymakinaw]

There is no way Flames would take Willie for Tkachuk in a one for one deal.

The Leafs would've had to have added, for sure.

 

[Griffin76]

Why do people still have this obsession with being us being "soft" and needing "grit".

The Leafs play a puck possession game which means they don't throw a lot of checks chasing said puck.

Do the Leafs really get bullied and pushed around so badly? I don't see it, sure some players might but players on every team do.

Guys like Nylander make some weak efforts but he also throws his shoulder down and drives the net and fights off 2 guys around the net to keep the puck as well.

Does having 20-30 more hits a game that really amount to absolutely nothing going to make the Leafs better?

I see people ready to give up 1st++ for Lawson f***ing Crouse and salivating at having him. Remember Nick Ritchie you all creamed yourselves over for years saying he was just what we needed? How did that go, that's Crouse.

Ritchie and Crouse are nowhere near the same player. Crouse is fast. Can score. Can actually make contact on a hit not just make a loud noise banging into the boards. Plays well defensively. And PKs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Remember Petan?

You mean the guy that only played a handful of regular season games as a league minimum depth injury replacement, that pretty much every team in the league has?

Some people sure do like incessantly bringing him up years later for no reason.

 

[Big Muddy]

Toronto has never gone through losing arguably their best forward and best dman in an offseason, though.

Neither did Florida, as Barkov and Ekblad are still there.

 

[Nineteen67]

Why do people still have this obsession with being us being "soft" and needing "grit".

The Leafs play a puck possession game which means they don't throw a lot of checks chasing said puck.

Do the Leafs really get bullied and pushed around so badly? I don't see it, sure some players might but players on every team do.

Guys like Nylander make some weak efforts but he also throws his shoulder down and drives the net and fights off 2 guys around the net to keep the puck as well.

Does having 20-30 more hits a game that really amount to absolutely nothing going to make the Leafs better?

I see people ready to give up 1st++ for Lawson f***ing Crouse and salivating at having him. Remember Nick Ritchie you all creamed yourselves over for years saying he was just what we needed? How did that go, that's Crouse.

You don’t have to be physical and hit someone every shift, but in the playoffs, there will be times when it’s necessary, and far too often too many Leafs miss the boat.

People creamed over Ritchie?

Neither did Florida and Barkov and Ekblad are still there.

Weegar was 1b. Calgary got a good one.

 

[Nineteen67]

Had the Leafs made the trade they would be the team that took themselves out of contention. They would have had to move too much salary to make it work and they’re also too thin to do it.

 

[zeke]

Neither did Florida, as Barkov and Ekblad are still there.

The word arguably was used intentionally of course, as it was Huberdeau that led the team in scoring by a whole lot and got all the Hart votes, not Barkov, and Weegar that led the D in even strength TOI and scoring and many metrics, not Ekblad.

These Leafs have never lost players with that kind of impact.

 

[Big Muddy]

The word arguably was used intentionally of course, as it was Huberdeau that led the team in scoring by a whole lot and got all the Hart votes, not Barkov, and Weegar that led the D in even strength TOI and scoring and many metrics, not Ekblad.

These Leafs have never lost players with that kind of impact.

Ya, I was just focused on the Florida's "best players" part, and looking at it from a multiple year perspective, but don't disagree with a lot of what you said.

Regarding the last sentence, that is true up to this point in time. As for the future, ya never know.