Post-Game Talk: I ****ing benched Franzen in my fantasy league

[SoupGuru]

If you really, truly think Franzen should face wash, trash talk and use his stick in 6-1 games when hes just back from a concussion then by all means go for it but dont wonder why hes out with another concussion when it happens. I wouldnt care if Franzen did it in a 2-1 game but he did it at such a meaningless time that its plain stupid


As for Neil running around being a policeman. All of you are making it sound like Franzens concussion is a go ahead to not get touched out there even when he was playing stupid. If you want him playing like that hes going to get face washed and hacked and people are going to try to fight him plain and simple. He shouldnt talk trash in the media about it after and you all shouldnt complain about Neil going after him when hes just back from concussion.

Franzen was looking to stir it up and he did. I dont know why people are crying about Neil sticking up for himself and his team and acting like Franzen is a victim.

Everyone on here loved when Barret Jackman used to run around using his stick for years right??

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Did you watch the game? The Sens were laying the lumber all night long. They were literally tackling Red Wings. Crosschecks, slashes, mean nasty stuff.... if Neil didn't want a stick in the crotch, maybe he should have stopped running Red Wings all night.

I won't go so far as to call Franzen the victim here, but calling Neil the victim is absurd.

 

[newfy]

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Did you watch the game? The Sens were laying the lumber all night long. They were literally tackling Red Wings. Crosschecks, slashes, mean nasty stuff.... if Neil didn't want a stick in the crotch, maybe he should have stopped running Red Wings all night.

I won't go so far as to call Franzen the victim here, but calling Neil the victim is absurd.

The sens werent actually running around though, it was a vanilla game pretty much the entire time until when the Franzen stuff started. The only time Neil did anything was when he grabbed Glendening but Glendening even initiated that. Too many wings fans are playing the victim card. Can you even think of one bad thing the sens did outside of Neil blowing up at the end? I can think of Franzen slashing Methot, Franzen scrumming with Neil and acting tough after the refs came in and apparently a stick to Neils groin as well. Franzen literally did the most instigating out there and now a bunch of wings fans are upset about it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

You might want to prove the groin comment with some actual video evidence, otherwise we are just taking Neil's word on it (and I personally wouldn't considering something like that would be easy to spot).

Also are we going to go on and on about this until Tuesday? Going to be a long weekend if that is the case.

 

[Riddarn]

Love this kind of stuff, personally. Come on, Neil. Start a rivalry.

Yeah, I hope he tries. Franzen will never be dumb enough to fight Neil but a pissed off and annoyed Franzen tend to be a good Franzen, in terms of being an effective hockey player.

 

[14ari13]

If I remember right, There was something alike we played the Sens last time. Is this some kind og carryover?

 

[silkyjohnson50]

If I remember right, There was something alike we played the Sens last time. Is this some kind og carryover?

Maybe. But really there wasn't much outside of Neil gooning it up which he often does and Cowen attempting to be physical which he often does. Neil plays with an edge. He basically forced Smith to drop the gloves earlier this year as well. And Cowen has given 2 players concussions this season. So I think it was just a case of them being them during a blowout.

 

[PullHard]

Neil was being a clown all night. I was at the game, it was sad. Franzen is legitimately the victim here, because had the refs been refereeing the game instead of the score he likely would've padded his stats even further. Neil basically just mugged him for no reason. Franzen had a target on his back once he started scoring. And the Z Smith slash + punch/ shove on Kronwall was real special, too. Sens are babies.

Franzen did put his stick between Neil's legs before Neil mugged him, but there was no violent motion, it was just kind of there.

 

[joe89]

Mule has a very punchable face, let's not lose sight of that.. I wouldn't call him an agitator but he has a hard time staying out of things. Good news though, an engaged Franzen is a good Franzen. The post game comments are just amusing more than anything.

I thought Cowen's cross-checks and attempted blindside hits were far worse than anyhing Neil did. I'm glad our guys got out of his way.

 

[sepster]

I'm very happy the Wings have come out of the Olympic break with 2 strong wins, gaining valuable points, obviously.

What makes me even happier, is that the team has seemingly made the decision to fully embrace the youngsters. With Zetterberg out and Datsyuk ailing, Babcock could have easily gone back to his comfort zone and plugged in Cleary and Bert to give the team the "veteran presence" for a playoff run. Instead, Bert came in for one game, the rest of the kids stayed in the lineup and then Bert came out and another kid was plugged in, instead of swapping in Cleary.

I'm still not willing to completely overlook Holland and Babcock creating a cluster**** of a logjam with all of the veteran deadweight, but thankfully, the kids have played so well and the old guys have been so downright awful the situation has forced them into no other option.

With all of the success the Wings have had over the past 20 years, I've come to realize I enjoy the chase of a championship moreso than the celebration after winning it. The '97 and '08 Cup wins were the most exciting Cup runs for me, because those teams weren't expected to win. Their victories, seemingly, came out of nowhere, lead by young players and a team gelling at the right time. It's definitely exciting to look at the kids in the lineup now and start to see a solid foundation starting to come together. I'm not sure how far the kids will take them this year, but a solid future is there.

 

[HIFE]

How does Karlsson escape this game unscathed with a +1? He is the Golden Child!

 

[Crymson]

What makes me even happier, is that the team has seemingly made the decision to fully embrace the youngsters. With Zetterberg out and Datsyuk ailing, Babcock could have easily gone back to his comfort zone and plugged in Cleary and Bert to give the team the "veteran presence" for a playoff run. Instead, Bert came in for one game, the rest of the kids stayed in the lineup and then Bert came out and another kid was plugged in, instead of swapping in Cleary.

Aye. When that NHL.com article listed Cleary as being on the 1st line in the game against Ottawa and Nyquist on the 4th again, my heart broke a little; I thought we were going to see a return to Babcock's favoritism toward Cleary, a rather criminal state of affairs that had earlier in the season made games unpleasant for me to watch, and an end to his new habit of playing the best possible lineup in each game. I became somewhat agitated and didn't exhale (figuratively) until Khan tweeted that Cleary would not be playing, and that Nyquist would be lining up alongside Datsyuk and Franzen.

I'm still not willing to completely overlook Holland and Babcock creating a cluster**** of a logjam with all of the veteran deadweight, but thankfully, the kids have played so well and the old guys have been so downright awful the situation has forced them into no other option.

I absolutely agree, though I'm grateful to Holland for drafting so well.

 

[14ari13]

I'm very happy the Wings have come out of the Olympic break with 2 strong wins, gaining valuable points, obviously.

What makes me even happier, is that the team has seemingly made the decision to fully embrace the youngsters. With Zetterberg out and Datsyuk ailing, Babcock could have easily gone back to his comfort zone and plugged in Cleary and Bert to give the team the "veteran presence" for a playoff run. Instead, Bert came in for one game, the rest of the kids stayed in the lineup and then Bert came out and another kid was plugged in, instead of swapping in Cleary.

I'm still not willing to completely overlook Holland and Babcock creating a cluster**** of a logjam with all of the veteran deadweight, but thankfully, the kids have played so well and the old guys have been so downright awful the situation has forced them into no other option.

With all of the success the Wings have had over the past 20 years, I've come to realize I enjoy the chase of a championship moreso than the celebration after winning it. The '97 and '08 Cup wins were the most exciting Cup runs for me, because those teams weren't expected to win. Their victories, seemingly, came out of nowhere, lead by young players and a team gelling at the right time. It's definitely exciting to look at the kids in the lineup now and start to see a solid foundation starting to come together. I'm not sure how far the kids will take them this year, but a solid future is there.

Very good post. Though I am not sure I agree with you the Wings were not expected to win in '97 and '08.

 

[PullHard]

How does Karlsson escape this game unscathed with a +1? He is the Golden Child!

Karlsson is basically as good as HF would have you believe he is. It is the rest of their blue line that has them losing 6-1 to a Zetterberg-less Wings team and sitting out of the playoffs with only ~20 games left.

 

[Frk It]

Karlsson is basically as good as HF would have you believe he is.

I disagree. His defensive game in incredibly overrated by Sens fans IMO

 

[PullHard]

I disagree. His defensive game in incredibly overrated by Sens fans IMO

I don't know how many Sens game you watch, so I can't/ won't get super into it, just say my piece.

He isn't going to stonewall you in his own end, obviously. The guy is very slight and on the smaller end of NHLers, but he is similar to Lidstrom in that his nose for the puck is really up there. Good stick checks and positioning help him often. He definitely has his nights/ shifts though. But keep in mind he is only 23 years old. Not saying he is as good as Lidstrom, just that he defends similarly in a lot of ways.

It is one of those things you really understand in person. You been to any Sens @ Wings games? I go to a ton of Sens home games because my uncle is able to get them through work all the time. Karlsson controls the game in a similar way to how Lidstrom and Neidermayer did. He is truly a "quarter back."

I feel like the whole argument on Karlsson has gone backwards. Like he is a very good defenseman, but was so shoved down HFs throat that he has this negative stigma attached to him, and now the naysayers are more outspoken than his fans, and people probably think he is a lot worse than he is because of that.

 

[Frk It]

I don't know how many Sens game you watch, so I can't/ won't get super into it, just say my piece.

He isn't going to stonewall you in his own end, obviously. The guy is very slight and on the smaller end of NHLers, but he is similar to Lidstrom in that his nose for the puck is really up there. Good stick checks and positioning help him often. He definitely has his nights/ shifts though. But keep in mind he is only 23 years old. Not saying he is as good as Lidstrom, just that he defends similarly in a lot of ways.

It is one of those things you really understand in person. You been to any Sens @ Wings games? I go to a ton of Sens home games because my uncle is able to get them through work all the time. Karlsson controls the game in a similar way to how Lidstrom and Neidermayer did. He is truly a "quarter back."

I feel like the whole argument on Karlsson has gone backwards. Like he is a very good defenseman, but was so shoved down HFs throat that he has this negative stigma attached to him, and now the naysayers are more outspoken than his fans, and people probably think he is a lot worse than he is because of that.

That seems pretty fair. Wow didn't even realize he's only 23 as well.

I don't watch exclusively Ottawa games, so I don't have as good a scope as someone like you who is local most likely. But I must just by chance happen to tune in a lot when he has "his shifts/nights" because when I see teams set up a cycle, or a "half court offense" if you will, I see him get abused 1 on 1 in his own end quite frequently for a Norris winning defenseman, and one that carries the reputation he does.

Also I feel like advandced stats watchers don't get a correct representation for his game either. Because the guy is so dominant offensively with his instincts/vision/skating that like you said he dictates play from the back all the way up ice, which leads to lopsided possession numbers for Ottawa when he is on the ice. Which limited opposing scoring chances and shots altogether. And I see the plays he makes with his recovery speed, and he can fly and take away guys space even right after he just led a rush up ice. Which is amazing.

I just don't think in a vacuum he's great defensively in his own zone. I might be wrong, that's just my perception from a smaller sample size, though I see a decent amount of games. I mean he's no where remotely near as solid as a guy like Listrom defensively, but like you said he only is 23.

I view him as the best offensive defenseman in the world, just always bugged me he has a Norris, because I think he still has a way to go to be the best "all-around defenseman", namely his defense.

 

[PullHard]

That seems pretty fair. Wow didn't even realize he's only 23 as well.

I don't watch exclusively Ottawa games, so I don't have as good a scope as someone like you who is local most likely. But I must just by chance happen to tune in a lot when he has "his shifts/nights" because when I see teams set up a cycle, or a "half court offense" if you will, I see him get abused 1 on 1 in his own end quite frequently for a Norris winning defenseman, and one that carries the reputation he does.

Also I feel like advandced stats watchers don't get a correct representation for his game either. Because the guy is so dominant offensively with his instincts/vision/skating that like you said he dictates play from the back all the way up ice, which leads to lopsided possession numbers for Ottawa when he is on the ice. Which limited opposing scoring chances and shots altogether. And I see the plays he makes with his recovery speed, and he can fly and take away guys space even right after he just led a rush up ice. Which is amazing.

I just don't think in a vacuum he's great defensively in his own zone. I might be wrong, that's just my perception from a smaller sample size, though I see a decent amount of games. I mean he's no where remotely near as solid as a guy like Listrom defensively, but like you said he only is 23.

I view him as the best offensive defenseman in the world, just always bugged me he has a Norris, because I think he still has a way to go to be the best "all-around defenseman", namely his defense.

You're pretty bang on with that. His play in his own end isn't Norris winning, but it is definitely passable in the NHL, which is still saying something. It is probably above average for the NHL just for his obvious skill with his stick and his skating (like you mentioned). You don't finish 11th in points (2011-2012) by being a stay-at-home/ crease clearer. But the fact that he isn't a total liability makes him a really special player.

"The best defense is a good offense." Sums him up really well.

I am harder on a guy like Mike Green, because I admittedly don't see a ton of Caps games, and have only ever seen them once in person. I can say that I almost never see much effort defensively from him. In my view, he started the ball rolling for all offensive blue liners winning the Norris hate that these types get. I don't think it is as valid for Karlsson, though. I am not even really a fan of the Sens, more neutral or lukewarm towards them. Maybe it is bias, though. I donno.